Superiority

[INFJok]

www.personalityjunkie.com-->INFJ pg.3--->article The "Other Side" of INFJ:

"INFJs must be careful not to let their psychological wisdom generate an air of moral superiority. Doing so can and does alienate them from those who might seek out their guidance and help. Shooting themselves in the foot in this way restricts INFJs from making an actual difference in the world since Fe social connection is the channel through which their intuitions are converted to outward change (Se). Potentially worsening matters, some INFJs, after alienating others with their unrealistic expectations, assume martyrdom, pitying themselves for being isolated by society for having “noble intentions.”


I've ran across this article and figured out this hard truth about INFJs that I somehow can relate to. Wanting to get more specific, I decided to see what facts about my birthday personality, September 8. One of the facts was that I felt superior:

http://birthdaypersonality.tumblr.c...ember-the-birthday-of-complicated-superiority

As I read both of these they've connected hand-to-hand. The thing is that I've met people with the same birthday and it didn't seem as such.
I admit I have felt better than people, not materially nor physically, but morally.
It's because I feel that I don't have to degrade myself because I have my wisdom and it's the only thing I feel that can't be taken from me.

Is this common for other INFJs? People with the same birthday?
If it's common w/ other types how do you deal?

 

[Amalthea]

www.personalityjunkie.com-->INFJ pg.3--->article The "Other Side" of INFJ:

"INFJs must be careful not to let their psychological wisdom generate an air of moral superiority. Doing so can and does alienate them from those who might seek out their guidance and help. Shooting themselves in the foot in this way restricts INFJs from making an actual difference in the world since Fe social connection is the channel through which their intuitions are converted to outward change (Se). Potentially worsening matters, some INFJs, after alienating others with their unrealistic expectations, assume martyrdom, pitying themselves for being isolated by society for having “noble intentions.”

I have a fantastical engrained Chivalric code that really is scoff worthy. No, it really is rather silly. On occasion it causes hysterics. Pulling the sword from the stone I will swing excalibur high into the air and then watch as people in jeans start laughing at the absurdity of my melodramatic display. My vocabularly has words like 'Scounderal', 'Unhand', 'Degrade', 'Unnoble', 'Desist', 'Duty', 'Villan' in it which are used to do battle with the forces of 'we-don't-live-to-Amalthea's-standards'. There also words directed at those celebrated for being True, Noble, Virtuous, good of heart with fairness beyond compare (which they will probably never entirely live up to).

Being someone who is quite pragmatic and earthy it seems really odd I have such a bizarre blind spot. I try my best to keep it in check and mind what I say, aswell as try and pull myself away from the lure of martyrdom, but every now and again on a bad day I sure know how to embarass myself. Years of disappointment has taught me the people in this world who function the best aren't restricted by the same values I am. They'll take a helicopter to Sleeping Beauty's castle while I do battle with thorns, and while I'll take on the dragons trying to convince them their actions were wrong, the more wordly person will pass quiet and knowing. They don't play by the rules I do, they don't see the wrongs I see and they don't feel any great urge to bring things back to order. Sure I may feel superior at these times but the truth speaks only of delusion.

So compared to most people, yeah, I am more "morally superior" but only because they probably have the sense to be less chaste, and when it comes to martyrdom, less stupid.

As for Birthday Personalities which is probably dealing with Astrology: 'The Improvisor...To understand that sometimes life can’t be controlled...A recurring theme for them is their attempt to impose control or structure upon every situation...'

Well ain't that a fancy cocktail for a Witchfinder General.

 

[Billy]

Yes its true self labeled INFJs often feel its important to tell people how rare, special and superior they are.

 

[the]

I have a fantastical engrained Chivalric code that really is scoff worthy. No, it really is rather silly. On occasion it causes hysterics. Pulling the sword from the stone I will swing excalibur high into the air and then watch as people in jeans start laughing at the absurdity of my melodramatic display. My vocabularly has words like 'Scounderal', 'Unhand', 'Degrade', 'Unnoble', 'Desist', 'Duty', 'Villan' in it which are used to do battle with the forces of 'we-don't-live-to-Amalthea's-standards'. There also words directed at those celebrated for being True, Noble, Virtuous, good of heart with fairness beyond compare (which they will probably never entirely live up to).

Being someone who is quite pragmatic and earthy it seems really odd I have such a bizarre blind spot. I try my best to keep it in check and mind what I say, aswell as try and pull myself away from the lure of martyrdom, but every now and again on a bad day I sure know how to embarass myself. Years of disappointment has taught me the people in this world who function the best aren't restricted by the same values I am. They'll take a helicopter to Sleeping Beauty's castle while I do battle with thorns, and while I'll take on the dragons trying to convince them their actions were wrong, the more wordly person will pass quiet and knowing. They don't play by the rules I do, they don't see the wrongs I see and they don't feel any great urge to bring things back to order. Sure I may feel superior at these times but the truth speaks only of delusion.

So compared to most people, yeah, I am more "morally superior" but only because they probably have the sense to be less chaste, and when it comes to martyrdom, less stupid.

As for Birthday Personalities which is probably dealing with Astrology: 'The Improvisor...To understand that sometimes life can’t be controlled...A recurring theme for them is their attempt to impose control or structure upon every situation...'

Well ain't that a fancy cocktail for a Witchfinder General.

What is this code you have? Lets hear some of the specifics.

 

[Billy]

What is this code you have? Lets hear some of the specifics.

I bet it relies on reading peoples souls and auras. <-- infj trait

 

[acd]

To cultivate humility, question yourself every so often and try to see things from others perspectives. Cuz how do you know for sure your brand of morality is correct or superior?

 

[TheDoctor]

When new INFJs come on here talking about how great and amazing they are because they are an INFJ, to me, it pretty much means that they might be one or both of the following:
a. They have low self-esteem and somehow believe by proclaiming greatness they will be praised.
b. They aren't an INFJ.

Also, using the day you were born to describe you? I think this is an excuse for a person to act like they want to. "Yeah, I know I'm a jerk. It's okay, because, well, it's how people are on the day I was born."

Yes I think some INFJs feel a sense of superiority in some areas. I do, but those are my business. Also, I realize there is a lot of stuff I can't do. I just do somethings better than most people. Most people do something or things better than me.

 

[the]

I bet it relies on reading peoples souls and auras. <-- infj trait

I wonder if these infj people , with all their reclusivness and human-advoidence qualities, just lose touch with reality and that is why they act so superior. Its all based on imaginary things that they made up on their own. Do they think that because they spent a lot of time imagining things that they have what should and shouldnt be down pat? They lack a lot of external input in most cases. My concern is that they expect to see their imagination become a reality.

Well actually I dont wonder, that is precisely it.

 

[the]

b. They aren't an INFJ.

Quite the opposite, it means they absolutely are an infj.

 

[Billy]

I wonder if these infj people , with all their reclusivness and human-advoidence qualities, just lose touch with reality and that is why they act so superior. Its all based on imaginary things that they made up on their own. Do they think that because they spent a lot of time imagining things that they have what should and shouldnt be down pat? They lack a lot of external input in most cases. My concern is that they expect to see their imagination become a reality.

Well actually I dont wonder, that is precisely it.

Who can say definitively. But Isolation does definitely breed some strange ideas. I know that when I am out of the loop for an extended period and then I get around other people there is a lot of filtering that has to happen, because I learned the hard way growing up that just going apeshit with the crazy thoughts in your head around people drives them away. I find it much better to focus whatever insights and talents I do actually have on building up tangible systems of support for the people I care about. Telling them they are idiots for not caring about this or that moral cause is pointless and serves only to make myself feel better. (and the better I feel is dubious at best considering the cost) I dont expect people to feel what I feel, why should they? They have had different lives.

 

[muir]

I think morality is a tricky area because we are all often guided by our complexes. If we are unconsious of the forces driving our actions then how culpable are we?

Besides we're all sinners so i don't feel a moral superiority over anyone else

There are many people who are clearly very smart who are guided by their complexes so it's not an intelligence issue either

I think that INFJ's often don't fit in as adeptly to society when they are young as some other types (i'm talking in generalisations here of course). This can leave them feeling a bit like misfits or a bit alienated...perhaps a bit like they have been dumped on the wrong planet!

The down side of this, as can be seen in many posts on this forum, is that young INFJ's struggle for a while to find their feet. It can seem at first as if others have been given a manual to life that the INFJ has not been given (this may also be the experience of other types but i can't speak for them)

But over time through experience and trial and error the INFJ can begin to find their feet and even their mistakes become viewed as lessons

The upside of this process is that through being a bit adrift from society the INFJ will often develop a certain amount of emotional self reliance. They then formulate their own opinions about things that are not as heavily based around what the mass of people are doing/thinking and because their opinions aren't pegged to popular opinion they can evolve more freely

Most people on the other hand spend their youth 'fitting in'. They may sometimes seem to the young INFJ as if they are just breezing through life effortlessly

These people however have learned to get their cues about how to behave and how to think and even how they think they should feel about things from the wider culture; they are 'outer directed'. This means that they are extremely impressionable, whilst the INFJ is likely to question things more and is freer to do things because they feel right

So at a certain point in life the tables get reversed. The alienated INFJ has over time developed a stronger sense of themself while the outer directed people who managed to fit into society so well when they were younger have carried on doing what they think they are supposed to be doing without questioning whether it feels right. (i am generalising here of course....this isn't an exact science i'm just going on what i've observed)

Sometimes though the outer directed people begin to question if the standardised norm is really working for them but they're often ashamed to openly admit that its all bullshit because they don't want to stand out from the herd or look/feel like a failure, so they suffer in silence or to use the words of Pink Flyod 'hanging on in quiet desperation that's the English way'. INFJ's on the other hand are probably more likely to publically say 'this is bullshit, i'm not doing this anymore' and then go off on their own path

[FONT=&amp]So i don't think it is a moral issue, i don't think it's an intelligence issue i think it is about inner and outer directed people and the tensions between them

INFJ's can diverge from the norm quite early on in life and as a result can become quite idiosyncratic while [/FONT][FONT=&amp]those that have been modelling themselves on the standard norms will not look favourably on the divergent INFJ. They may say things to them like 'what makes you think you're so special' or 'who do you think you are to do things differently' or 'how can you know that?' or 'what do you think you're better than us?'

This is sometimes referred to as 'hammering down the nail that stands out' or 'triming the head off the flower that stands out' or other such things and is a common approach used in repressive societies where elites try to create a homogenised mass of people who can be easily controlled by a centralised authority. Individuality isn't tolerated in those kind of environments and as a result growth is stunted...this is why the first people to get the chop are always radicals, artists and creative types.

My advice to any INFJ's reading (and obviously this is just one path) is to develop a useful skill or knowledge area that will allow you autonomy and ideally, once you have the necessary experience, to be your own boss; this will enable you to implement your own systems and move in your own direction without feeling railroaded along redundant modes of thinking or behaving

The other group that is divergent from the herd is the predators. The INFJ's and the predators are always on a collision course. Its a bit tragic that the herd often suffers from stockholm syndrome and instead of directing their anger and frustration at the people who are taking advantage of them they will instead direct their negative energy against the INFJ's (who after all only want to help...they're certainly not the bad guys and idiosyncratic or not don't deserve all the hostility)

[/FONT]

 

[Radiantshadow]

I'm unsure if this actually fits with the OP, but here is my two cents. Feel free to scoff.

Certainty does not increase with knowledge, contrary to popular opinion; in fact, it diminishes as one rebounds against the flaws in human perception, thrown back far enough to have a fine view of all the unanswered questions plaguing mankind. It is quite humbling, especially when one takes Godel's Incompleteness Theorem into consideration, which essentially states that no self-consistent logical system exists and that, by extension, nothing can be proven. To paraphrase Socrates: All we know is that we know nothing. Or, in the amused words of H.P Lovecraft, "we live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far".

 

[muir]

''Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities — the political, the religious, the educational authorities — who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing — forming in our minds — their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself ''

Timothy Leary

 

[INFJok]

I think morality is a tricky area because we are all often guided by our complexes. If we are unconsious of the forces driving our actions then how culpable are we?

Besides we're all sinners so i don't feel a moral superiority over anyone else

There are many people who are clearly very smart who are guided by their complexes so it's not an intelligence issue either

I think that INFJ's often don't fit in as adeptly to society when they are young as some other types (i'm talking in generalisations here of course). This can leave them feeling a bit like misfits or a bit alienated...perhaps a bit like they have been dumped on the wrong planet!

The down side of this, as can be seen in many posts on this forum, is that young INFJ's struggle for a while to find their feet. It can seem at first as if others have been given a manual to life that the INFJ has not been given (this may also be the experience of other types but i can't speak for them)

But over time through experience and trial and error the INFJ can begin to find their feet and even their mistakes become viewed as lessons

The upside of this process is that through being a bit adrift from society the INFJ will often develop a certain amount of emotional self reliance. They then formulate their own opinions about things that are not as heavily based around what the mass of people are doing/thinking and because their opinions aren't pegged to popular opinion they can evolve more freely

Most people on the other hand spend their youth 'fitting in'. They may sometimes seem to the young INFJ as if they are just breezing through life effortlessly

These people however have learned to get their cues about how to behave and how to think and even how they think they should feel about things from the wider culture; they are 'outer directed'. This means that they are extremely impressionable, whilst the INFJ is likely to question things more and is freer to do things because they feel right

So at a certain point in life the tables get reversed. The alienated INFJ has over time developed a stronger sense of themself while the outer directed people who managed to fit into society so well when they were younger have carried on doing what they think they are supposed to be doing without questioning whether it feels right. (i am generalising here of course....this isn't an exact science i'm just going on what i've observed)

Sometimes though the outer directed people begin to question if the standardised norm is really working for them but they're often ashamed to openly admit that its all bullshit because they don't want to stand out from the herd or look/feel like a failure, so they suffer in silence or to use the words of Pink Flyod 'hanging on in quiet desperation that's the English way'. INFJ's on the other hand are probably more likely to publically say 'this is bullshit, i'm not doing this anymore' and then go off on their own path

[FONT=&]So i don't think it is a moral issue, i don't think it's an intelligence issue i think it is about inner and outer directed people and the tensions between them

INFJ's can diverge from the norm quite early on in life and as a result can become quite idiosyncratic while [/FONT][FONT=&]those that have been modelling themselves on the standard norms will not look favourably on the divergent INFJ. They may say things to them like 'what makes you think you're so special' or 'who do you think you are to do things differently' or 'how can you know that?' or 'what do you think you're better than us?'

This is sometimes referred to as 'hammering down the nail that stands out' or 'triming the head off the flower that stands out' or other such things and is a common approach used in repressive societies where elites try to create a homogenised mass of people who can be easily controlled by a centralised authority. Individuality isn't tolerated in those kind of environments and as a result growth is stunted...this is why the first people to get the chop are always radicals, artists and creative types.

My advice to any INFJ's reading (and obviously this is just one path) is to develop a useful skill or knowledge area that will allow you autonomy and ideally, once you have the necessary experience, to be your own boss; this will enable you to implement your own systems and move in your own direction without feeling railroaded along redundant modes of thinking or behaving

The other group that is divergent from the herd is the predators. The INFJ's and the predators are always on a collision course. Its a bit tragic that the herd often suffers from stockholm syndrome and instead of directing their anger and frustration at the people who are taking advantage of them they will instead direct their negative energy against the INFJ's (who after all only want to help...they're certainly not the bad guys and idiosyncratic or not don't deserve all the hostility)

[/FONT]

My life in a F***ING nutshell! If I didn't do what others did (sex, drugs, desperate to jump in a romantic relationship aka
thirsty) they would cast me out as weird and because I didn't all-around fit into certain cliques, the people in it would suddenly change on me and I would be excluded again. But that didn't stop me from voicing my moral opinions making others feel stupid and small. I had my fair share of being pointed out and shunned and I did it back to those people who deserved it all in INFJ-fairness, because it's not nice to make fun of people who choose to do things differently.

Do I sound like an enneagram 4w3? Am I a 4w3?

 

[muir]

My life in a F***ING nutshell! If I didn't do what others did (sex, drugs, desperate to jump in a romantic relationship aka
thirsty) they would cast me out as weird and because I didn't all-around fit into certain cliques, the people in it would suddenly change on me and I would be excluded again. But that didn't stop me from voicing my moral opinions making others feel stupid and small. I had my fair share of being pointed out and shunned and I did it back to those people who deserved it all in INFJ-fairness, because it's not nice to make fun of people who choose to do things differently.

Do I sound like an enneagram 4w3? Am I a 4w3?

I did do the sex, drugs and romantic relationships. If i have been dropped here on the wrong planet due to some sort of mix up at galactic control then i'm sure as hell going to make the best of my time here amongst this bizarre species

This is a beautiful planet and i've spent a lot of time exploring it. The female of the species is very beautiful and i've spent a lot of time exploring that as well lol

I don't feel that i was shunned by the mass of humanity, i just felt different. I've always managed to integrate enough though and have always found good friends

So I haven't ever expressed my views on things to make someone feel small in return for them having done me a harm; i don't feel wronged (except by the predators who i think are preying on all of us). I think the harsh comments made by the outer directed people to try and bring people back into line are born out of fear so i don't resent them for it....i feel sorry for them as i think their need to conform often becomes their prison. Instead i try to encourage them to do what feels right for them.

I'm not a type 4 enneagram

 

[barbad0s]

I feel that INFJs constantly have to walk a fine line between sharing their insights, and still wanting to be understood/accepted. It's something that we all want. It's just that INFJs happen to see things in ways that most people don't. You need to Fe-ify your ideas, but you are people too.

I think that moral virtue is only a small part of it. In general, people who are kind of different or feel that they have been shunned by others, are going to develop feelings of resentment and cultivate the idea of their superiority over others in order to help them come to terms with what they've experienced.

@muir offers a lot of great advice and insight in his big post up there

And like @Billy and others have explained... it helps to be wary of the limited, or contorted perspective that isolation can bring. Sometimes INFJs really do just have crazy ideas that nobody else buys for very good reason. What comes to mind is the story of some Renaissance (I think; can't remember the name of the guy) artist who locked himself inside some building for months on end trying to complete his art in it, and in the end he lost all perspective, lost his mind and just drew a bunch of nonsensical cray-cray stuff all over the walls and people were all "dafuq" at it after investing all their time and monies on him. People are social creatures. Seriously. Sometimes isolation can help people come to profound insights, but it can really backfire in extremes. On occasion when you guys are stressed, you guys can really close yourselves off to suggestions made by others (it happens to us all), but it's extra infuriating because usually you guys also like to insinuate that you are morally or intellectually superior to others as a reason to disregard others' opinions. Which is of course a surefire way to remain wallowing in insanity. I actually think that when healthy, INFJs are more open to a variety of viewpoints than many other types of people are, and sometimes the people they're talking to are just sheeplike and not quite as englightened as the INFJ they're dealing with is, but sometimes... no, just no.

 

[Breeze]

[MENTION=7267]Amalthea[/MENTION]
I know exactly what you mean. Our brains follow the more articulate speech from times gone and so when speaking in every day life we must translate internally to a more palpable form of speech to the masses. It is a rather bizarre thing and in the past the chivalric code with which we have internally built has gotten me into more trouble than it's worth as innocent and noble intentions are met with nothing short of hostility.

I believe that although overall INFJs and everyone the world over will share patterns in one way or another there's nothing stopping us from being more, and so anyone can feel morally superior than another. That being said, one must always consider another's background and circumstances as although we may wish to judge one on the actions we perceive at a particular moment, they may not reflect their selves as a whole.

I must admit, rather than feeling morally superior to others I often feel sorry and sometimes guilty for them as these people obviously didn't have parents and environments that taught them right from wrong. In my own way I often just say these people are 'uneducated' through one reason or another and so they clearly just don't understand the impact of their actions, even if most of the time they feel they are doing the right thing.

Synopsis: We all beat to the sound of our own drum. A childish mind may one day turn to noble ambition.

 

[muir]

I feel that INFJs constantly have to walk a fine line between sharing their insights, and still wanting to be understood/accepted. It's something that we all want. It's just that INFJs happen to see things in ways that most people don't. You need to Fe-ify your ideas, but you are people too.

I think that moral virtue is only a small part of it. In general, people who are kind of different or feel that they have been shunned by others, are going to develop feelings of resentment and cultivate the idea of their superiority over others in order to help them come to terms with what they've experienced.

@muir offers a lot of great advice and insight in his big post up there

And like @Billy and others have explained... it helps to be wary of the limited, or contorted perspective that isolation can bring. Sometimes INFJs really do just have crazy ideas that nobody else buys for very good reason. What comes to mind is the story of some Renaissance (I think; can't remember the name of the guy) artist who locked himself inside some building for months on end trying to complete his art in it, and in the end he lost all perspective, lost his mind and just drew a bunch of nonsensical cray-cray stuff all over the walls and people were all "dafuq" at it after investing all their time and monies on him. People are social creatures. Seriously. Sometimes isolation can help people come to profound insights, but it can really backfire in extremes. On occasion when you guys are stressed, you guys can really close yourselves off to suggestions made by others (it happens to us all), but it's extra infuriating because usually you guys also like to insinuate that you are morally or intellectually superior to others as a reason to disregard others' opinions. Which is of course a surefire way to remain wallowing in insanity. I actually think that when healthy, INFJs are more open to a variety of viewpoints than many other types of people are, and sometimes the people they're talking to are just sheeplike and not quite as englightened as the INFJ they're dealing with is, but sometimes... no, just no.

lol

are you sure that wasn't impressionism?

 

[ChronoJoe]

It's my first post here - hey guys.

On topic; I find this to be generally true. It isn't my intent however, I have never told anyone directly that my perspective is superior to their own, least not because I'm INFJ. I've spoken to people about how I enjoy a different perspective to everyone else, I think that sentiment unfortunately lends itself to an air of superiority. I generally have little verging no interest in most people so I make an effort to make those I do speak to feel special, privileged. However most people seem to appreciate it more than anything. I speak about how most people are shallow, dis-interesting, and I think the fact that I identify with the people I speak to makes them feel like I must perceive them to be someone special too.

 

[Billy]

It's my first post here - hey guys.

On topic; I find this to be generally true. It isn't my intent however, I have never told anyone directly that my perspective is superior to their own, least not because I'm INFJ. I've spoken to people about how I enjoy a different perspective to everyone else, I think that sentiment unfortunately lends itself to an air of superiority. I generally have little verging no interest in most people so I make an effort to make those I do speak to feel special, privileged. However most people seem to appreciate it more than anything. I speak about how most people are shallow, dis-interesting, and I think the fact that I identify with the people I speak to makes them feel like I must perceive them to be someone special too.

You forgot one thing though in this, you yourself are not interesting or special. You are in the same shit heap they are in. So why does a need to be superior (different than a need to be right/correct) ape your life? Have you considered that?