I'm curious how people here tend to consider the involvement of government on moral issues?
On moral issues I do not personally value, I would hope for a time when people would not choose to engage in them, but also tend to reserve myself from the battle to make/keep it illegal.
I recognize there's a valid argument in if it's illegal, people will not choose it. I acknowledge for some portion of the population that's true. But I also wonder if we lose a battle of understanding when we engage in a battle of legal force. I wonder if it's somewhat like an authoritarian parent whose children obey because they fear the punishment, but don't really understand the rules. I prefer, in parenting and in government, a style that is more focused on providing ample information for people to make educated choices and then recognizing I am not omnipotent and if someone chooses other than I would have chosen for them, it might not mean they made the wrong choice.
My object is to share some rather interesting ideals a certain group of mostly intellectuals from years past that have somewhat been lost between the cracks in the floors of our heritage. I only wish to share, and dare not offer opinions at this time....that will come later. The involvement of government on moral issues may be the theme of this thread, but I do find place for these most valuable men's words in the discussion of rather the involvement of morals in our government, if I may find place for the two comparisons to be the one and the same. Please ask me to delete this, tovlo, should you find it in any way out of order or context and I will be delighted to. Please note the abject attitudes of those that helped secure a place in this world for our government when the thought of the absence of religion and morality was even thought to be removed from the
foundations of this new government: America.
I will continue to add til I tire with editing.....
Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indespensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. from George Washington's Farewell Address
We have no government armed with the power capable with contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our Constitution is made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Statemen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People
in a greater Measure than they have it now, they may change their rulers and the forms of government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty. John Adams
I proceed in the next place, to enquire, what mode of education we shall adopt so as to secure to the state all the advantages that are to be derived from the proper instruction of youth; and here I beg leave to remark, that the only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. Benjamin Rush
Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time.
They therefore that are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure and which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments. US Senator Charles Carroll
From the Leader of the Boston Tea Party.....
The rights and freedom being given of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institution of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.
as the Declaration of Independence was being signed...
We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come.
to James Warren, 1779....
A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader....If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security.
from the Public Advisor..... Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.
Samuel Adams, who has so much more to say
The principles of morality and religion are the best foundation of national happiness.
James Madison, 1785
The great pillars of all government and of social life are virtue, morality, and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone that renders us invincible. These are the tactics we should study. If we lose these, we are conquered, fallen indeed...so long as our manners and principles remain sound, there is no danger. Patrick Henry, 1789
Whoever shall introduce into public affairs the principals of primitive Christianity will change the face of the world. Benjamin Franklin, 1778
from one known to many as the Father of the Bill of Rights...No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people, but by a firm adherence to justive, moderation, temperence, frugality and virtue, and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles. George Mason, written into the Virginia Declaration of Rights
I momentarily tire a bit
