Starfire
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Epic crush. She's the only cartoon character I wish I could hug to death.
TinyBubbles
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lol she's not that bad, but you're right, definitely Mary-Sue. She is kind of cute.
sassafras
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But that's the point. She's cute because she's drawn that way, and that's where it stops with her. She's completely two-dimensional.
An innocent, cute, alien princess (who is also a total WARRIOR... RAWR!) trying to find her way around planet earth. She gets a modeling contract along the way and the love of the former boy-wonder. She also has an evil sister who plots against her.
Sounds like a twelve year old's fanfiction project.
Gag.
An innocent, cute, alien princess (who is also a total WARRIOR... RAWR!) trying to find her way around planet earth. She gets a modeling contract along the way and the love of the former boy-wonder. She also has an evil sister who plots against her.
Sounds like a twelve year old's fanfiction project.
Gag.
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My thoughts exactly, and she has a whole episode about her as an methaphor for puberty where she was all emo and self-loathing, fail.
TinyBubbles
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rofl xD if you want to talk unrealistic characters, just look at sailormoon. not one of those characters had any substance. or pokemon. the girl in that (Minsy? i forget) follows Ash around like a lost puppy, even thought (from what i remember anyway) she's training to be a pokemon master too.
sassafras
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My gripe isn't about unrealistic characters; I am well aware of the parameters of the genre of fantasy and suspended disbelief. Considering what's been going on in comics for the last thirty years, maybe I've been spoiled to expect a little more psychological complexity.
I guess I tend to dislike characters that have cut and paste superpowers/alien origins.
Like Superman, for example
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DimensionX
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I preferred Ravens character to Starfire, couple of excellent episodes that were based around her.
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Lol yes, Sailor moon. Venus was suppose to have this whole other superhero identity and yes she's still a major ditz? What? Also, main character of the series was also too ditzy to root for, but the baddies were to stupid to root for >.<. A whole universe of stupid.
TinyBubbles
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My gripe isn't about unrealistic characters; I am well aware of the parameters of the genre of fantasy and suspended belief. I'm just more inclined to dislike characters that are cut-and-paste superheroes.
Like Superman, for example
hehe, well they probably appeal to a certain demographic. the mindless and easily amused perhaps
batman i think was an improvement over superman in terms of character complexity. he at least gave the impression of not being cut and paste, of having secret fears and desires that drove him to dressing like a bat and saving innocents ;P it's pretty interesting actually how characters in tv shows evolve as the public's expectations of deeper motivations grows.
TinyBubbles
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oh ya, they were so clumsy! and i never understood how the bad guys would just wait around while the girls took like 5 minutes transforming into sailorpeople ;D
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If you want a more (relatively) complex Superman, read "Red Son" of the otherworld comics. Basicly its if Superman landed in Soviet russia instead of the American mid west. Communist Dictator Superman Ftw!hehe, well they probably appeal to a certain demographic. the mindless and easily amused perhaps
batman i think was an improvement over superman in terms of character complexity. he at least gave the impression of not being cut and paste, of having secret fears and desires that drove him to dressing like a bat and saving innocents ;P it's pretty interesting actually how characters in tv shows evolve as the public's expectations of deeper motivations grows.
sassafras
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You know what always really annoyed me about Superman? Here's this guy who is impermeable to bullets. He can survive a friggin' nuclear missile to the gut... and yet, he has the audacity to act hurt when he's tossed around by some super villain.
Seriously, watch any episode of Justice League and you'll see. He gets slammed into a brick wall, he's groaning. Next minute, he gets a grenade to the face and he doesn't even blink.
I object!
Seriously, watch any episode of Justice League and you'll see. He gets slammed into a brick wall, he's groaning. Next minute, he gets a grenade to the face and he doesn't even blink.
I object!
TinyBubbles
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sassafras
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Doesn't help that they kept writing stuff for him long after the magic wore off. How long have they kept writing new superman stuff? Decades? Half a century+?
And right, Elseworlds, I never remember what its called. Age of wonder was okay too, but the one where Superman was the last man on earth... blehk.
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The thing that I love about Starfire (note, I've never read a single comic book version of Starfire because the comic version of her looks so cheesy even I want to gag, so I'm unaware of any differences from the animated series Starfire) is that she's this homely little creature who is so inherently sweet, sincere, and innocent that it's actually a disadvantage. The cute things she says and her adorable motivations are what give me the crush on her.
I know nothing about this modeling contract you speak of, was that in the comics? The comic version of her looks like a pin up, so I can see where you are coming from on the cookie cutter thing.
The animated version of her has these little blobs for eyebrows, weird green eyes, and is so homely she's cute. On the animated series, the character seems unique to me because I've never seen sweet and innocent portrayed like that, and she really does seem to develop depth as the series goes on. I didn't get the whole warrior princess thing from the way they wrote her. I got the sense that she was from an alien race of warlike people with inherent powers (which I'll admit is about as cheesy of a cop out origin as being a mutant, or magically endowed hero), yet she really didn't fit in with them because she was too nice (if this was in the animated version, I missed it).
My gripe isn't about unrealistic characters; I am well aware of the parameters of the genre of fantasy and suspended disbelief. Considering what's been going on in comics for the last thirty years, maybe I've been spoiled to expect a little more psychological complexity.
I guess I tend to dislike characters that have cut and paste superpowers/alien origins.
Like Superman, for example
Aww... now you stepped in it.
Point one: the benevolent alien with super powers is a cut and paste template because of Superman.
Point two: Smallville has done an amazing job of giving depth to that character (when they had good writers).
Bad writers. This bothers me too. It's like the old Superman TV shows where he'd stand there and let bullets bounce off his chest until the bad guys ran out of bullets, at which point they threw their guns at him... and what does Steve Reeves do? He ducks! Bruce Timm, one of the producers of the Superman animated series as well as the Batman, Justice League, and Teen Titans animated series mentioned in the DVD extras interviews more than a few times that they wanted to make Superman more easily empathized with... which is why he's variably invulnerable... aka a lot of fans have complained about this point.
In contrast, Smallville (which had good writers) rarely has Clark getting hurt without good (spelled out) reason. They even did a good job of slowly increasing his invulnerability and making a point of it as the seasons progressed. Early in the seasons, bullets would bruise him (which they made a point of showing). Later, they'd 'hurt' him but wouldn't bruise him (which they made a point of mentioning). Later still they were just an annoyance (which they again pointed out).
Any super hero is only as good as their writer. For example, Batman is such a flaming bad ass because he has good writers. There is no logical way that he could pull off half the stuff that he does otherwise. The law of average dictates at some point, an unpredictable element would have killed him while interacting with forces that transcend mortal capacity. The opposite is true. A bad writer can make a good character suck.
Seems like your issue is more with writers than characters.
Edit: And for the record... this version of Starfire gags me too...
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sassafras
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Nope, it’s not just the writers. There’s a lot about the Superman concept that bothers me. I could go on and on... but I'll start with my biggest pet-peeve:
Why does Superman even have a secret identity? Scratch that, why does he even have a day job ? For one thing, you rarely ever see Clark Kent doing any investigative reporting (in Lois’ eyes, that sonofabitch always makes her do all of the work). And really, why would he even need to? He doesn’t have to track down the bad guys or do nitty-gritty detective work; he’s got super-hearing! He can tune into someone in trouble any time he wants to! Besides, it’s not just America that gets attacked by aliens and threatened with take over by evil corporations either. There’s plenty of awful things happening around the world daily; nuclear crises, volcanoes, earth-quakes, flood, hurricanes, starving children… and it’s all within Superman’s fantastic means to fix. So instead of splitting his time between saving the world and being a useless, mild-mannered reporter, why doesn’t he just become a full-time superhero?
Why does Superman even have a secret identity? Scratch that, why does he even have a day job ? For one thing, you rarely ever see Clark Kent doing any investigative reporting (in Lois’ eyes, that sonofabitch always makes her do all of the work). And really, why would he even need to? He doesn’t have to track down the bad guys or do nitty-gritty detective work; he’s got super-hearing! He can tune into someone in trouble any time he wants to! Besides, it’s not just America that gets attacked by aliens and threatened with take over by evil corporations either. There’s plenty of awful things happening around the world daily; nuclear crises, volcanoes, earth-quakes, flood, hurricanes, starving children… and it’s all within Superman’s fantastic means to fix. So instead of splitting his time between saving the world and being a useless, mild-mannered reporter, why doesn’t he just become a full-time superhero?
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