Speak the truth in love

[Saru Inc]

Hey guys!

So, after talking and hanging out with SOTL today, I've began to be very curious about how you guys enter into situations where you are aware the other person is, for lack of a better term, bullshitting. I am particularly interested in your MBTI as well.


For example: (I am only going to use MBTI because we're all familiar with it.)


Person A: I am a Entp.
Person A: I know this, because I love to be myself, reading books. I also only trust what my senses tell me, and I care about people more than anyone I know. I also can't end a relationship to save my life.
Person B: *Thinks* Hmmm, this must mean they are ISFP! (C'mon guys, you know it's just an analogy.)
Person B: Perhaps you're an ISFP?
Person A: Oh, I am far from ISFP. I am ENTP. That's all I've ever gotten from the tests, and I've always considered myself an intellectual.
Person B: __________________________________ <- Where you come in.



What would you guys say on that last line?

When I personally am faced with a situation such as this, I have a very Te attitude towards it. I wish for people to actualize their potential, and they cannot do this when they are hiding behind a masquerade that, everyone and their russian grandmother from the "old country," can see through. However, I am aware that people still have feelings. Thus I will always apply tact, and try and nudge them along to what I believe is their real MBTI status. And who knows, I could be completely wrong, but they need to at least attempt to realize who they are. If this all fails, I go all out on them, and just let them know what I think. I do not like my help to be refused. I'd say straight up:
"Ok, listen up right quick. Use those ears you trust so much. You, I, and everyone else knows you're not an ENTP. Everything you've said states you're exactly opposite, with perhaps a P still in there. I need you to cut with the bullshit, and tell us why you're refusing to be who you are. Because I've had it up to here *creates a line with my hand near my chin* with this whole "OMG IM AN ENTP!" Well YOU'RE NOT. UGH!"


At that point I'm usually supplied a warning by the forum admin to watch where I step. I can't stand sensors as admins. (no offence! <3)

So I guess I'd say that even though I'm an ENFP, I have a very Te approach when my Ne says "waddup with the that? See video:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3giSeLdjKJY&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3giSeLdjKJY&feature=related[/ame]

(Ok, so I just wanted to post that video.)

And I have to learn I think to take a much more Fi approach to my Ne.


Anyways, I'd love to hear your guys responses!

 

[Kavalan]

simply put I ask for an elaboration beyond, just because, as that is the largest cop out you could use and I will pursue hearing the reason behind the statement and correct as I can

 

[Cyrus]

Ironically, in your example, ISFP's are the most vehement against being typed and every ISFP I know HATES being told that's what they are and either resist the whole topic altogether or insists they are some other type ...

I guess its that whole "you can only lead the horse to water" thing... People believe what they want to believe. Not everyone actually looks for what is true...

 

[bagelriffic]

whats up with that is one of my favorite current snl skits. this guy just totally gets my humor, and the other one in the red jump suit has some great dance moves, not so much in this vid but hes pretty active usually, great vid pick.

as far as mbti goes i dont care what mbti someone is, or thinks they are, or thinks i am enough to argue anyway. reason being to me there are so many variables and considerations to a personality beyond what mbti can explain. if you don't think im an infj thats cool, im pretty sure i am but even if im not i doubt ill lose sleep ovre it. if anything if someone was really intense about telling me that im a different mbti, i'd probably wonder if something else is going on behind it bc who really cares what mbti someone else is beyond general interest anyway?

 

[Saru Inc]

No, you guys this applies to any aspect of life, not just mbti. Like if someone says they are an atheist and yet goes to a building and tells an icon how great they are every monday am... etc.

 

[Trifoilum]

ask questions.

Then wait, ask again, then wait, ask again, then wait.

Then drop the bomb. "I think you're X. You said you're BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA? Well, that's the definition of X."

(but as the scope expands, this gets harder.)

 

[bagelriffic]

No, you guys this applies to any aspect of life, not just mbti.

ah ok i see what you're saying here. at first i thought this was a thread about your mbti, so after praising the video i started explaining that i do in fact think youre an entp lol. my se sucks.

but yeah my response is pretty much the same, i mean if someone says they're A and then they do something that i think means they're a B, wtv man do your thing. unless it hurts me or others i probably won't even call you out on it, wtv gets you through the day more power to ya.

 

[Saru Inc]

Heh I take the blame, I'm not the best at explaining things.


And nah, I'm pretty sure I'm an ENFP, as ENTPs are too.... Umm. Hmm. idk.

 

[Faye]

People often consider themselves as something they are not. I guess I don't see it as that big of a deal. Or if it is, I don't see how I can enlighten everyone to fix it. Most people see the world through rose-colored glasses, and I feel like I have to choose my battles when it comes to knocking people's glasses off and stomping on them.

 

[invisible]

it's a tough one, i've thought about this a lot lately. maybe they know that they're not really what they say they are but they're insecure and projecting a certain image to cover up their sense of inadequacy, in which case i feel sympathetic and friendly and guarded towards them. maybe they are on a path of discovery to what they really are, and are just throwing around ideas, in which case i feel very much the same. i think i still feel the same with any other possibility. to express my doubt in a subtle way like just saying "hmm. that's interesting. ok then." in a noncommittal tone is probably sufficient to let them know i'm unsure of what they're saying. i feel like there's not much point in giving someone my opinion unless they ask for it because otherwise they are probably not ready to hear it. i admire you for wanting to help people and i have felt very much the same in the past but i have decided that people will probably decide for themselves if i am qualified to help them and in that case they'll just ask me. if you have the energy to argue with someone then go for it, but for myself i think i'm finding that i can direct my energy more productively in other ways. and there's always the chance that they are not bullshitting but i just don't know the whole story. so i can store the information up for later and see what develops.

 

[jn56uytrx]

You asked about what you do when you think someone is bullshitting and then went on to describe situations that I would call self-deception. In one (bullshitting), I think the person knows they're blowing smoke and they are trying to pass off a story they know isn't true. In self-deception, as an outside observer we see some evidence of contradiction between what they state as their experience and the experience they then act out. Different things with a critical distinction in my mind.

I am a bit neurotic and suspicious so I tend to have a default assumption of bullshit until I dig a bit more and sense they really believe their bullshit or that I was on the wrong track altogether.

If I sense contradiction, I ask questions about the contradictions I've noticed. I point out what I've noticed and then ask for more information to help explain the contradiction. I may seem aggressive or not very accepting when I do this, but I can't engage with someone at any depth if I don't trust where they're coming from. Even though I may have an internal suspicion of an option of bullshit or self-deception, I'm trying to flesh out (not to confirm, but just to flesh out with information that might confirm or direct me in a different direction) the story. I think I tend to engage in my questioning with some degree of gentleness (possible self-deception?). If at any point, I sense the person is of the category of believing their own story, I become more reserved in my questioning. I don't want to upset people who aren't ready to see something about themselves. If people really believe their story, they will often begin to become a bit flustered or confused when the contradictions are pointed out. If they're bullshitting, they tend to become evasive and more aggressive. If I'm the one that's misunderstood the situation, they usually make good points that I then have to incorporate into my framework and reassess.

 

[jn56uytrx]

And I have to learn I think to take a much more Fi approach to my Ne.


Anyways, I'd love to hear your guys responses!

Wanted to just add a note about this. Fi isn't a soft and gentle function. It's a judging function that comes to quick right/wrong conclusions based on an internal standard. Te is a judging function that works off of externally designated structure. Based on what you've stated here, I see a lot of Fi and not so much Te.

I'm not sure if you're doing this, but don't mistake "F" with soft, gentle feeling and "T" with cold, assertive thinking. F does make decisions more personally and T more impersonally, but there's a lot more involved in how that manifests as behavior.

 

[Saru Inc]

I find this thread has become way more relavant due to the Matariki debacle

 

[FamineGT]

I'd have to assess the individual at first. tovlo made some great points that I agree with and would probably do myself. The only thing I would personally do is to either drop the topic/questioning if the person starts becoming fairly agitated. If it gets to that point, I pretty much have the information I needed or wanted. If I was in error, I'd apologize and reassess as well.

 

[acd]

I don't really care what people think about themselves unless it negatively affects me or other people..
If it is something really ridiculous, I may just laugh.