SOPA is evil. Help the internet! | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

SOPA is evil. Help the internet!

muir said:
If you're 'peeved' about the blackout then it worked!

The aim of the blackout was to get people to sit up and take notice. If there had been normal service many people would have just carried on as per usual without giving it a second thought.
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That's certainly true. But I'm not sure if I'm the audience they are trying to reach. I already opposed it. And I don't think our congressmen are looking up SOPA on wikipedia to make their decision.

Concerning whether or not you cared about if the government had total access to everything you write a la 1984, you should be concerned.

Lets say for example you decided you wanted to campaign against government cutbacks for sick kids. The government could under NDAA brand you as a 'terrorist' who is working against the state and lock you up without trial

The whole point about us having rights and freedoms is that they act as a safeguard against the abuses of power by the government.

The government is incrementally taking away those rights and freedoms and one day you will wake up living in a totalitarian state where you work all day, have totally limited access to the internet, have no rights, cameras will watch you every moment of your day and if you ever speak out to question the system you will dissapear into the torture chambers (room 101)

The US government is currently taking a leaf straight out of the Nazi instruction manual on how to control a population

Whether you have something to 'hide' or not will depend entirely on what the government deem acceptable for you to do
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I think that the first example you provided is protected by the 1st amendment. One supreme court case would probably clear up most of those issues for the future.

Your portrayal of the totalitarian state seems to jump to conclusions. Fat and lazy as Americans are, I don't think we would let that happen.
You talk about the government like it's an individual, which always decides things instantaneously and unanimously. While the government has certain tendencies, and is quite under the influence of rich white people, I don't think that there will be anyone publishing lists of what is an isn't "deemed" acceptable.
 
muir said:
No it is not a big hoopla over nothing it is a fight over access to information

Obama said he would veto the NDAA but then when the time came he signed it through having amended it to include US citizens; i wouldn't trust anything the politicians say, they are professional liars

But you are right about the Patriot Act, that should never have been allowed to pass in the first place let alone be re-signed off recently

Many people love the internet and will fight to protect that before they will fight to prevent the slow creeping creation of a surveilance society.....it shouldn't be that way, but at the moment it probably is; however more and more people will wake up to the fact that the government is gradually turning the US into a giant police state
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Yes, I agree with you 100% that information and the flow of it should be free and unhindered. That's what culturally separates the US from countries like say, China. Even if the bill does pass, I'm willing to bet that if the government tries to do anything draconian with the law, there will be such a public backlash that the bill would quickly be rendered toothless.
 
ultrauber said:
That's certainly true. But I'm not sure if I'm the audience they are trying to reach. I already opposed it. And I don't think our congressmen are looking up SOPA on wikipedia to make their decision. .
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They weren't trying to reach congressmen they were trying to reach you, the user of their service, and they did

ultrauber said:
I think that the first example you provided is protected by the 1st amendment. One supreme court case would probably clear up most of those issues for the future.

Your portrayal of the totalitarian state seems to jump to conclusions. Fat and lazy as Americans are, I don't think we would let that happen.
You talk about the government like it's an individual, which always decides things instantaneously and unanimously. While the government has certain tendencies, and is quite under the influence of rich white people, I don't think that there will be anyone publishing lists of what is an isn't "deemed" acceptable.
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It already happened in Germany under the Nazis which was a modernised, industrial country run by rich white people, many of whom bankrolled Hitler

That's the problem, the monied interests will get behind the people they think will represent their interests and lobby them to ensure that they do.

The constitution is not going to protect you
 
muir said:
They weren't trying to reach congressmen they were trying to reach you, the user of their service, and they did
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You're right, they were encouraging users to write to their congressmen. Which I didn't.

It already happened in Germany under the Nazis which was a modernised, industrial country run by rich white people, many of whom bankrolled Hitler

That's the problem, the monied interests will get behind the people they think will represent their interests and lobby them to ensure that they do.

The constitution is not going to protect you
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In 1930, they didn't have the technological infrastructure with which we are gifted today. The government can't just "turn off" the internet.
 
MisterNi said:
Yes, I agree with you 100% that information and the flow of it should be free and unhindered. That's what culturally separates the US from countries like say, China. Even if the bill does pass, I'm willing to bet that if the government tries to do anything draconian with the law, there will be such a public backlash that the bill would quickly be rendered toothless.
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I think cultural differences between the US and China is a complex area.

I wouldn't be too harsh on China however seeing as they produce all your electrical goods at knock down prices whilst propping up your broken economy by holding billions of dollars worth of US treasury debt

The government has just done something draconian in the law in the form of the NDAA which allows the US military to arrest, torture and detain indefinately US citizens.

I do hope that the public keep waking up. OWS and the Tea Party is a good start
 
ultrauber said:
You're right, they were encouraging users to write to their congressmen. Which I didn't. .
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So now you are aware, which is the first step to being politically involved. They have initiated you

ultrauber said:
In 1930, they didn't have the technological infrastructure with which we are gifted today. The government can't just "turn off" the internet.
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Everything is much more fragile than you think. Have a look at the video posted earlier in this thread by Sandra B as i think it shows how centrally controlled the media really is in the US

The government could do massive damage to the internet and it can also turn you off
 
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muir said:
I think cultural differences between the US and China is a complex area.
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I never stated otherwise. Look at the bigger picture though. The US as a whole values freedom/civil liberties and generally value openness. China is the opposite. This isn't some feeling that changes on a whim, it's a culturally engrained value that's been indoctrinated in citizens practically from birth.

I wouldn't be too harsh on China however seeing as they produce all your electrical goods at knock down prices whilst propping up your brocken economy by holding billions of dollars worth of US treasury debt

The government has just done something draconian in the law in the form of the NDAA which allows the US military to arrest, torture and detain indefinately US citizens.

I do hope that the public keep waking up. OWS and the Tea Party is a good start
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Your point being? Other than to bash the US and thinking you're indirectly bashing me? :p
 
MisterNi said:
I never stated otherwise. Look at the bigger picture though. The US as a whole values freedom/civil liberties and generally value openness. China is the opposite. This isn't some feeling that changes on a whim, it's a culturally engrained value that's been indoctrinated in citizens practically from birth.



Your point being? Other than to bash the US and thinking you're indirectly bashing me? :p
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The point was to explain to you how dependant you are on China

Therefore for you to complain about the working conditions of the country that maintains your lifestyle through its oppressive system seems misguided

I sincerely hope you are right about the love of freedoms being ingrained, culturally in US citizens because they are currently being made to wave them goodbye
 
internet-memes-the-scariest-idea-of-all.jpg
 
^ I do think most of the people pushing these laws know nothing about internet, and are essentially luddites.
 
muir said:
The point was to explain to you how dependant you are on China

Therefore for you to complain about the working conditions of the country that maintains your lifestyle through its oppressive system seems misguided

I sincerely hope you are right about the love of freedoms being ingrained, culturally in US citizens because they are currently being made to wave them goodbye
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Well, the value of labor is a completely different discussion. Although it's exploitation, symbiosis or uplifting depending on how you look at it.

But yeah, the US mentality towards safety/liberty has certainly shifted since 9/11. With Bin Laden dead and the military pullout from Iraq being all but complete I'm guessing the shift will go back to liberty > security which is, IMO, the natural viewpoint for the average American.
 
MisterNi said:
Well, the value of labor is a completely different discussion. Although it's exploitation, symbiosis or uplifting depending on how you look at it.

But yeah, the US mentality towards safety/liberty has certainly shifted since 9/11. With Bin Laden dead and the military pullout from Iraq being all but complete I'm guessing the shift will go back to liberty > security which is, IMO, the natural viewpoint for the average American.
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That's reasuring MR.Ni, now lets bury this SOPA bullshit and draw a line in the sand for the corporate interests to not step over!
 
muir said:
That's reasuring MR.Ni, now lets bury this SOPA bullshit and draw a line in the sand for the corporate interests to not step over!
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Haha, agreed! I feel like I should be tapping mugs or a taking a sip of coffee right about now. :D
 
MisterNi said:
Haha, agreed! I feel like I should be tapping mugs or a taking a sip of coffee right about now. :D
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I'm wiping hot chocolate from my lips as we speak!

A salute perhaps? Or could i pursuade you to join me in a 'workers of the world unite' fist in the air?
 
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muir said:
So now you are aware, which is the first step to being politically involved. They have initiated you
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So I get indoctrinated in someone's ideology either way, but in this case it was Wikipedia's, not our government's?

Traded one evil for another.

Everything is much more fragile than you think. Have a look at the video posted earlier in this thread by Sandra B as i think it shows how centrally controlled the media really is in the US

The government could do massive damage to the internet and it can also turn you off
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Unfortunately, the sound card in this computer is shot so I can't watch any video.
But I refuse to believe that the government could or would "turn you off."
That sounds like a conspiracy theory, not skepticism.
 
ultrauber said:
So I get indoctrinated in someone's ideology either way, but in this case it was Wikipedia's, not our government's?

Traded one evil for another.


Unfortunately, the sound card in this computer is shot so I can't watch any video.
But I refuse to believe that the government could or would "turn you off."
That sounds like a conspiracy theory, not skepticism.
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Wikipedia wasn't trying to indoctrinate you, it was just informing you of what is happening and advising you that sites such as wikipedia could be threatened by SOPA so its worth your attention if you value sites like wikipedia....which lets face it is an awesome site!

I really don't worry about the stigma attached to conspiracy theories; i have read now so many things that are documented fact that seemed so outlandish at first that my mind is now open to many possibilities.

By 'turn you off' i meant the government is capable of pretty much anything

Check out these for a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_MKULTRA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_COINTELPRO
 
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