Something I Missed | INFJ Forum

Something I Missed

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Faye, Aug 11, 2010.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 3 users.
More threads by Faye
  1. Faye

    Faye ^_^
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    311
    Messages:
    7,278
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4,612
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Gridania
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    I thought that I had explored typical depression from every angle, but there is something important that I recently realized I missed.

    I knew that depression and obesity are skyrocketing in developed societies. I had attributed this largely to diet, though I knew alienation was a significant factor. What I did not guess is that the alien we feel may be a result of our brains being incapable of dealing with so many people. We are incapable of interacting meaningfully with so many people; our brains are limited to about 150 people, the average size of a band level society.

    When humans first ended up stuck in large settlements, significant portions of the population met their deaths through violence. To counter this, institutions were established (religion, government, police, armies) to prevent such things from happening. Also, society frequently splits up into smaller groups (and still sometimes does) that are more cognitively manageable.

    One of the problems the modern area, especially with communication technology, is that the problem of interacting with too many people is exacerbated. So the stress associated with it is exacerbated.

    The result is that it becomes increasingly difficult to interact meaningfully with others.

    Thoughts?
     
    enfp can be shy likes this.
  2. Gaze

    Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Threads:
    2,381
    Messages:
    28,278
    Featured Threads:
    94
    Likes Received:
    22,814
    Trophy Points:
    1,906
    MBTI:
    INFPishy
    completely agree. I think my anxiety level has gone up because of this. And what makes it worse is the idea that you're expected to listen to, accommodate, and adapt to more of these voices everyday. It really gets too much.


    It's a real issue which is ignored, dismissed, and the effects of this, although increasing, are being pushed to the side as "all in the mind." The argument is if you can't handle the pressure, then it's a personal problem - the individual's incapacity to handle it, instead of society's creation of this problem.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. NeverAmI

    NeverAmI Satisclassifaction
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Threads:
    197
    Messages:
    8,794
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    949
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFP
    Enneagram:
    5w4
    I see this too. There is definitely a sociological size limit, in my opinion, as well.

    In the companies I have worked for, you see that as they get bigger, they become MUCH less capable of functioning efficiently.

    Dealing with so much at once doesn't even seem inefficient, it seems impossible. It has to stem from everyone having individual/unique stances, opinions, etc and being completely unable to accomodate for all of them, right?

    I can't personally handle dealing with 50 different people in a day, let alone triple that.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. SPQR

    SPQR Community Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Threads:
    6
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    N/A
    You know it's funny. You said 150, and I immediately thought of this: http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html

    Yes, it's Cracked, yes it uses monkeys, but it's a good read on why people alienate each other. I also highly recommend this article on why the twenty-first century is making you miserable: http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html

    Those two may be the best two articles on Cracked, and they're both pretty insightful as well as being totally related to the topic on hand.
     
    #4 SPQR, Aug 11, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  5. Entyqua

    Entyqua Forgotten
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Threads:
    280
    Messages:
    10,016
    Likes Received:
    533
    Trophy Points:
    755
    MBTI:
    INF
    Enneagram:
    messed up
    i concur...i find i feel more depressed when i think about how vast the city i live in is...how many people are crammed into the city block I live on...apartments, convenience stores, specialty shops, department stores full of people. development after development watching the land stripped down for more people to live in...I long to move back to a small town...a simple life i suppose...not chaos..

    I guess thats another observation...large cities are chaos...lives are in chaos...we drive, we eat, we sleep, we work, but there is never time for anything else....so do cities created the "I am always busy" mentality? the I never have any time....hmmmm
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Gaze likes this.
  6. invisible

    On Holiday

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Threads:
    225
    Messages:
    9,054
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    9,919
    Trophy Points:
    1,329
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Avalon Archipelago
    MBTI:
    none
    cool observation. i think facebook brings out the worst in people, for reasons like these.
     
    Bird likes this.
  7. Gaze

    Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Threads:
    2,381
    Messages:
    28,278
    Featured Threads:
    94
    Likes Received:
    22,814
    Trophy Points:
    1,906
    MBTI:
    INFPishy
    Which is why i'm not into having tons of "friends." And i don't see why it's necessary either.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. frozen_water

    frozen_water Community Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Threads:
    10
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INTP
    This is pretty insightful. Have you written any other threads on the forum (or would you mind starting one) with your other thoughts on typical depression? I'd like to read them.
     
  9. the

    the Si master race.
    Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Threads:
    479
    Messages:
    14,392
    Featured Threads:
    9
    Likes Received:
    8,780
    Trophy Points:
    1,112
    MBTI:
    ISTJ
    Enneagram:
    9w1
    It is necessary so that your Farmville, Mafia, and Cafe World will prosper duh. ;P
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. DoveAlexa

    DoveAlexa Chaz's Lovey Bunny
    Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9
    I can believe the 150 theory, and possibly that dealing with so many people you can't have the time or capasity to deal with is stressful, but I don't know if its causing depression in me at least. I work in a customer service heavy job, I can see well over 150 people in a day, and the store is often packed.
    If I get sad or angry though, its usually because of the people I know and work with closely, and not the strangers I meet. I actually feel happier with each customer, something about just being nice to a stranger and them appreciating it, then getting that process repeated many many times, very nice :).
    When I worked a different shift however, once where I dealt with only a few people over and over, I was angry and depressed constantly. I hated the world for only the low quality of those few interactions.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    invisible likes this.
  11. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Threads:
    197
    Messages:
    6,554
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,734
    Trophy Points:
    380
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    6w5
    AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Well, as per the topic; yeah. I also agreed that too much interaction could overwhelm us (moreso for Is). I can understand how this seems threatening and trapping for lots of people especially INFJs. :(

    Hmmmm.........I wonder. Even if it's harder than what it's used to (in several cases) but isn't the core of most meaningful interaction still the same? "I will interact with you if I want it / if you've proven yourself worthy of my attention."

    The definition of 'interacting' comes to mind. What comes as interacting?

    I guess it's kinda selfish, but it's a matter of detachment, I guess.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. DoveAlexa

    DoveAlexa Chaz's Lovey Bunny
    Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Threads:
    30
    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    9
    Well, considering all the people you could possibly be attached to/care about, its better for yourself and your well being if you don't try and interact deeply with everyone. You can't give enough to those you do like if you waste your energy of those who in the long run won't matter.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Gaze likes this.
  13. Lumi Spitsbergen

    Lumi Spitsbergen Community Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Threads:
    1
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ENTP
    Enneagram:
    waffles
    I have to wonder about the definition of "meaningful interactions."

    I have had many meaningful interactions with complete strangers - or do they mean a limited number of people you could be engaged with in meaningful interactions on a daily basis - in which case I am surprised that there are so many.

    Do you have a link to an article somewhere that explains this?
     
  14. invisible

    On Holiday

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Threads:
    225
    Messages:
    9,054
    Featured Threads:
    8
    Likes Received:
    9,919
    Trophy Points:
    1,329
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Avalon Archipelago
    MBTI:
    none
    i'm not completely sure but i don't think dragon meant it to be established scientific fact, just an interesting social theory, potentially falsifiable like any other.
     
  15. OP
    Faye

    Faye ^_^
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    311
    Messages:
    7,278
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4,612
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Gridania
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5

    The best definition that I can give you is this: a person you can interact meaningfully with is a person that you would feel comfortable asking for a favor (even a minor one). If you want the full scoop of where this idea came from, read Pandora's Seed, the chapter entitled Demented, I believe.

    It is in some regards an established scientific fact, but I'm extrapolating slightly by applying it to modernity like this. However, I would bet money on it.

    Edit for Clarity: The fact is that large numbers of humans does stress the human brain and leads to aggression. The extrapolation is that humans aren't so different in our cognitive capacities from how we were several thousand years ago (but not more than 10,000), and also that, because we lack violence as a legitimate recourse, end up depressed instead. If you read the book, you will see that they have found empirical evidence for the violence part.
     
    #15 Faye, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  16. OP
    Faye

    Faye ^_^
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    311
    Messages:
    7,278
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4,612
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Gridania
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    Edit: Sorry no, I tried to do it, and I can't make a thread on things that cause depression. I can give you a short list: poor diet, lack of exercise, the media, and information technology are the main things.
     
    #16 Faye, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  17. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Threads:
    245
    Messages:
    9,350
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    Trophy Points:
    966
    MBTI:
    ^.^
    Enneagram:
    .
    could be. too many variables to process, to many conflicting cultural dynamics to overcome before you can truly connect. perhaps the stress of having to deal with that everyday is causing people to become depressed. i have noticed people in smaller, more uniform communities seem somewhat happier than their counterparts in overpopulated, multicultural cities, although that could be for other reasons.. (and smaller communities have their own issues)
    anyway, if it's true, it would be just one of the many negative consequences of overpopulation :/
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. 88chaz88

    88chaz88 Back for a limited time only
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Threads:
    141
    Messages:
    4,872
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,221
    Trophy Points:
    766
    MBTI:
    ????
    Enneagram:
    9w1
    I can meaningfully deal with about 5. Everyone after that can piss off.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. deadred

    deadred Community Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Threads:
    1
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    One thing I've observed about large populations is the depersonalization of the individual. How could it make us feel any other way? Look at the scenes in the streets of a place like NYC. Thousands and thousands of people walking in the streets and you could almost swear they're walking around each inside their own little bubble, isolated from everyone and every thing around them. It used to be that Society felt drawn together by their perceived similarities, but now it's just the opposite...we seem to define ourselves by how we are different. Everyone wants to be unique. At some level, isn't too much of anything a bad thing? The fancy word would be disenfranchisement. Maybe we need a little more to draw us together rather than emphasizing that which pulls us apart.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. OP
    Faye

    Faye ^_^
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Threads:
    311
    Messages:
    7,278
    Featured Threads:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4,612
    Trophy Points:
    892
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Gridania
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    4w5
    Definitely, but the idea of being similar or drawn to other people is offensive to many people. Individualism is entrenched to such an unhealthy degree that to even suggest there is a problem with it will cause people to question what is wrong with you.
     
Loading...

Share This Page