For a long I saw my type as something to overcome in a sense. Buying into the "life is so hard for us INFJ's"was something I did for a long time. But over the years I have come to accept myself and use the tools being an INFJ offers, the intuition, the ability to feel others. Being a hospital trainer helped deal with the shyness, but it is still there, just something I can rise above if I need to. I guess life has mellowed me quite a bit and like I said I celebrate the gifts now.
- Aug 21, 2015
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@Aneirin, how long have you known you are an INFJ and been into MBTI?
I decided MBTI was bogus and ignored it, then spent many years trying to overcome being myself. I had tested as INFJ during my 20s and I so badly did not want to be, well, exactly what I am, that I decided it was bogus. Hahaha. It was reading more about type that caused me to accept who I am, and celebrate it.
It is awesome that you celebrate the gifts now, and accept it. I'm sad you went through a time when you thought being an INFJ was a burden.
Well I'll be 70 at the end of next year * horrors * - this is how I want to end up .......
I keep threatening to buy a motorbike for my 70th but I'm hoping my wife will make sure it never happens 'cause I doubt I could hold it up let alone ride off into the hills on one.
I only decided I was infj a few months ago after spotting the blindingly obvious to anyone with any sense - that my inferior is Se, and that I've been using Fe defensively, and quite effectively, all my life without acknowledging it. The jobs I've had, mostly in computing systems middle management, needed all the functions. As well as Ni, I got to be particularly good at Si/Te/Ti too, though I can see now why they take so much energy out of me. I've even filled roles that are pretty well focused on istj or istp orientation in my time, but needed setting up first (scope for the Ni) and involved customers (Fe). I've never been able to remotely pass for extraverted though - I was pretty sociable at work but found it tiring and I've always hated group tribal rituals. I've been more introverted since I retired and quite happy with that.
I'm sure the idea of developing a rounded use of all the functions is right, and I think there are problems for people who don't do this. I know older people whose personalities seem to have stiffened along with their joints, and I think this is a price we pay if we don't move beyond our primary and secondary functions in middle age. I know where @sprinkles is coming from when he says
but I know if I stopped learning myself I'd just seize up. It's not necessarily intellectual learning I'm talking about - I joined the forum to explore Fe, which I had never used consciously before, and it's been great.
About 20 years. . maybe a bit longer. Before that I just thought I was a generic mess of a human being
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yeah I know. . but at least I think I sort of get me. . or maybe not
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I couldn't name it, "Hey Old People! What's It Like To Be Old?"
All are welcome, but the topic is about maturing in general, and MBTI, cognitive functions, etc as we age.
Lol! I think this would've been perfect
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Please do not get a motorbike!
Not to be an echo chamber, but I agree with you. I can think of examples as I read your words.
I also see @sprinkles point, but more than that, I want to learn.
Interesting. I perceive INFJs as being very in touch with Fe. What have your experiences been, and what is your perspective, with exploring Fe?
Maybe in the way we're all a mess.
Please do not get a motorbike!
Not to be an echo chamber, but I agree with you. I can think of examples as I read your words.
I also see @sprinkles point, but more than that, I want to learn.
Interesting. I perceive INFJs as being very in touch with Fe. What have your experiences been, and what is your perspective, with exploring Fe?
No, sadly the bike is just a dream. I’m probably fated to go on into my 90s like my dad did.
I’m really pretty interested in Fe - I think it’s not well described on the web and in the literature as a judging function and I suspect that people, particularly men, with an Fe orientation tend to mistype as a result. It's only when I started looking at some of the more recent web sites that describe how infjs relate to others, how they empathise (sometimes to the death!), how they overcommit, go in for people pleasing, use metaphors a lot, find difficulty in expressing themselves in ways that other people can understand, etc, etc, that it really clicked. I tried the clothes on a few months ago and they fitted far better than any other type I've tried to relate to. Of course it might just be that as I've got older, I've got more comfortable with other functions including Ni and Fe, but that doesn't feel right to me - when I relax with these functions the feel of them is like using my dominant right hand to write with rather than my left. I don't think this means for a minute that I suddenly started using Fe for the first time a few months ago, but just that I recognised it as my secondary then and tried to explore it consciously. I can see that I've been using it reasonably well all my life, but like anyone who isn't familiar with mbti at all, I didn't have it packaged up neatly and didn't consciously use it as an explicit Function.
I was not popular at junior school - fat, timid, clever, opinionated. Just the thing to endear you to your contemporaries. I found I got on a lot better with adults than the kids and got lots of lovely affirmation by being clever. I got bullied a lot and still have a visceral distrust of other people lurking in my unconscious. With hindsight I can see that I used Fe to suss people out and use my intellect (both T functions) either to gain their approval, or gain ascendancy, at least in my own mind.
I came across mbti in a management course over 20 years ago and came out borderline intj/p at that time. A lot of that was determined by the type of work I was doing and it was clearly wrong when I started reading the mbti text books. I settled on infx about 15 years ago and only really went for the j when I found some better descriptions recently of Ni, inferior Se, and Fe.
Yes - just a mess, but great fun as well as grief :lol:
This for me too. Every so often I ask myself if I'd ever go back in years if I had the chance - even if I could go back to my youth with my memories intact I don't think I would. I've been retired for 9 years and I'm enjoying it. Onwards and upwards - but don't look down! :biggrin:
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@John K (((sending you warm support akin to a hug))) I'm so sad you were bullied, yet adore that you were clever.
I relate to this quote, and even discussed a bit about why yesterday, but then deleted the comment on that thread. In that post I explained what you are explaining here: Fe helps us "read" people and suss them out. Fe does not automatically compel me to comfort others. Sometimes what I suss out is that I need to create distance. Fe is not an automatic gush of empathy and compassion for everyone.
This can be a struggle, can't it? We feel a certain way, then it comes fumbling out of our mouths and people don't understand, and are sometimes even offended. The good news is that INFJs are prone to this in general, so you're not alone! Haha.
It makes sense that you tested INTJ/INTP and you are an INFJ. INTJ/INFJ share the same Ni/Se and INTPs have Fe. Your Fe was suppressed.
I'm fascinated that you have such a grasp on your shadow functions as well. Care to discuss this? I'm particularly interested in your use of Te/ Ti. (Also, Si.)
Also, how do you use shadow functions without being "shadowy"?
My personal opinion of using Te is that I'm actually using Ti and trying to mimic Te because I am surrounded by INTJs and admire INTJs and INTPs. Mimicking Te leads to a bit of a mess, and makes me more prone to Ni/Ti loops, which I am recognizing and beginning to avoid. I've always been good with one-on-one intellectual conversations (long evenings spent exploring history, philosophy, literature, science, theology, etc). Face to face conversations seem to flow. I am more prone to Ni/Ti loops online because of the pressure to engage. I dislike the quick reply patterns, and often "combat", of online discussion. I don't want to say anything I haven't truly thought over and decided upon. Ni/Ti loops tend to happen when I'm forced to battle.
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Not I. Hahahaha. If I could go back with my memories intact I would already be there. The path I would have taken for schooling would be different.
Right now I am in the place I should be, and it is clear to those close to me, too. The path I took for a very long time was a massive detour. I am now where I want to be in my personal life, and am feeling like I could have had this all along. I am so grateful for this place and life here, and will never take it for granted. I am not where I want to be in my career and reaching those dreams and goals.
I would embrace my beauty, and I would focus on what would make my work really stand out... which would involve a bit of ignoring that part of Fe that makes us want to go along and fit in.
I don't have regrets, and the stories I have are truly amazing, but the path I took was not best for me.
As far as being an aging woman, I'd much rather not be aging for all the typical reasons a woman would give. While this is considered shallow and we're supposed to rise above this, we still live in a society where youthful feminine beauty is valued. Aside from this, I enjoy being strong, fit and healthy, and I don't want that to change.
Hi Asa, that's lovely! Thank you.
This is very much what think too. I don't think Feeling is good or bad, any more than the Thinking functions are - it spans the who range from good to neutral to bad, according to the motives and impacts of the judgements we make using it .
I'm not really sure about how this works for me in relation to the theoretical model of mbti and I may simply be getting the terminology wrong. It seems more likely to me that the way the functions map onto our psyches is over-simplified in the literature. To give an extreme example, though Se is my inferior, I seem to be able to drive around OK without more than my fair share of bumps and scrapes, and driving seems to me to be using Se and non-verbal Ti in abundance in real time. I do get spaced out after driving a serious distance, and much more so than people I come across who are natural Sensors. I use Fe a lot when I'm driving too - letting someone out of a side road :maybeinnocent
r driving a bit too close to someone going too slowly in front of me when I'm in a hurry:notsoinnocentbut I try not to!). I'm sure Ni is in there too but it's usually distracting me with thoughts of life the universe and everything when I should be looking where I'm going.I was very good at maths and science at school, and did a maths degree. There's plenty of room for Ni in there but most of the need is for Ti/Te/Si and some Se. I got an Upper II so I must have been reasonably good at these other functions. They do tire me out though in a way that Ni doesn't - in fact I can't switch Ni off now I can see clearly what it is: the other functions take conscious effort. I spent my most of my working life as a middle manager in a Pharma computing department. I needed all the functions there too - there's not much room for Ni and Fe when you are working out a 5 year capital budge plan, but dealing with staff and users needs the lot.
I think we can gain proficiency in the non-preferred functions in the same way we can learn to use our non-preferred hand. It's never as good, and needs conscious effort at first but you can become surprisingly good at it - for example look at playing a piano, or any other skill that needs both hands. I think the other functions become most available to me when they partner one of my preferred functions. For example, I need to be at least a little "in love" with a subject to get to grips with it using "funny Functions". I lost interest in maths in my last year at uni when I found that it didn't really open up the deepest insights into reality. I've put many months of effort after I retired researching my family history which needs a lot of Si among others, but the reward is a deep connection to my roots and a profound understanding of my family.
I think we probably need to make a big distinction between using the functions as conscious tools as opposed to how they naturally fit our individual psyches as a whole.
I should probably stop here or I'll ramble on indefinitely - is this getting anywhere near answering your question?
- Aug 21, 2015
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@ John, ramble away! At the risk of seeming like this is "Interview John K" time, I am going to ask a bunch of questions.
– There is a popular book about MBTI called "Was That Really Me?" that suggests that when people are forced to push their dominant functions aside for work, and use less dominant functions, that something in their overall make-up has to "give", and/or they burn out after a certain length of time. This doesn't have to be major. One example was when an bi-picture thinker was forced to be very detail-oriented he became far less friendly while at work. Did you experience anything like this?
– Did you need a lot of down time while working jobs that did not suit your natural dominant functions?
– Do you find that Ni doms can be good at mathematical theory? ( – As opposed to practical adding and subtracting type math skills.)
– This sounds like the Si-dominated task fed your Ni (profound purpose) and Fe (understanding of family). Do you think that was natural? Or do you think your dominant personality found that in the task?
I've read, and certainly been a repeated victim of, the way INFJs make a big deal out of simple things because they have to find profound meaning and reasons to like everything they like. Its kind of exhausting and adorable for outsiders. I have to have a deep meaning and a reason with substance for liking everything I like, instead of just admitting I like/enjoy it. (This is probably linked to the way INFJs stick to the topics of interest for so long, instead of hopping from topic to topic.)
– There used to be an informative INFJ-based blog that was researched well, and it mentioned how INFJs can have trouble with driving. A pretty big percentage of INFJs don't drive. It's probably because of Ni... Ni isn't exactly spacey, but having a dominant function that swims around in abstract thought isn't the best for those moments when we must "be in the present".
I do enjoy some Se dominant activities and I can turn off Ni to do it, but I have to come up for air and "Ni" for a moment when I get overwhelmed. I've also noticed that if I'm forced to use Fe it upsets the balance of allowing Se to dominate. I have to become a focused "living in the now" Se robot to make it work. I'm at my worst when I'm distracted by how other people feel.
Ni isn't as useful because it is not an "in the now" mode of thought, but when it comes to solving riddles and thinking of the big picture, it is fantastic because INFJs are naturals at noticing symbols and connecting dots due to Ni/Se.
Fe seems to be where all my stress comes from and where my biggest distractions come from. It is worse than Ni because instead of focusing on the now, or using my dom function to snuff out clues and the big picture, I'm distracted by how other people are feeling, and in certain circumstances, I get preoccupied. Hahaha.
... So, I'm wondering how you worked a job where you were not using your dominant functions, how that affected you daily, how you made it work, and how you managed shortcomings? And in the theme of the thread, do you think maturity changed how you handled tasks that were not naturally oriented for your dominant traits?
– There is a popular book about MBTI called "Was That Really Me?" that suggests that when people are forced to push their dominant functions aside for work, and use less dominant functions, that something in their overall make-up has to "give", and/or they burn out after a certain length of time. This doesn't have to be major. One example was when an bi-picture thinker was forced to be very detail-oriented he became far less friendly while at work. Did you experience anything like this?
– Did you need a lot of down time while working jobs that did not suit your natural dominant functions?
– Do you find that Ni doms can be good at mathematical theory? ( – As opposed to practical adding and subtracting type math skills.)
– This sounds like the Si-dominated task fed your Ni (profound purpose) and Fe (understanding of family). Do you think that was natural? Or do you think your dominant personality found that in the task?
I've read, and certainly been a repeated victim of, the way INFJs make a big deal out of simple things because they have to find profound meaning and reasons to like everything they like. Its kind of exhausting and adorable for outsiders. I have to have a deep meaning and a reason with substance for liking everything I like, instead of just admitting I like/enjoy it. (This is probably linked to the way INFJs stick to the topics of interest for so long, instead of hopping from topic to topic.)
– There used to be an informative INFJ-based blog that was researched well, and it mentioned how INFJs can have trouble with driving. A pretty big percentage of INFJs don't drive. It's probably because of Ni... Ni isn't exactly spacey, but having a dominant function that swims around in abstract thought isn't the best for those moments when we must "be in the present".
I do enjoy some Se dominant activities and I can turn off Ni to do it, but I have to come up for air and "Ni" for a moment when I get overwhelmed. I've also noticed that if I'm forced to use Fe it upsets the balance of allowing Se to dominate. I have to become a focused "living in the now" Se robot to make it work. I'm at my worst when I'm distracted by how other people feel.
Ni isn't as useful because it is not an "in the now" mode of thought, but when it comes to solving riddles and thinking of the big picture, it is fantastic because INFJs are naturals at noticing symbols and connecting dots due to Ni/Se.
Fe seems to be where all my stress comes from and where my biggest distractions come from. It is worse than Ni because instead of focusing on the now, or using my dom function to snuff out clues and the big picture, I'm distracted by how other people are feeling, and in certain circumstances, I get preoccupied. Hahaha.
... So, I'm wondering how you worked a job where you were not using your dominant functions, how that affected you daily, how you made it work, and how you managed shortcomings? And in the theme of the thread, do you think maturity changed how you handled tasks that were not naturally oriented for your dominant traits?
