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Discussion in 'Spirituality and Mysticism' started by detectivepope, Feb 10, 2021.
Being a satanist just seems like making being an edge lord into your religion.
Thanks for this information - it helps a lot in understanding what modern Satanism actually is. I couldn't really get my head around the idea of willingly worshipping a demon whose only purpose with people is their negation. This seems very different, and actually feels more like a structured atheistic reaction to modern religious phariseeism. Presumably the identification with Satan is as a symbol opposing the dominant Abrahamic religions rather than as anything with a supernatural reality.
I just realized who LaVey reminds me of.
I would agree, the spitefulness is part of it. The religion is not afraid to use what others would see as negative, just by the fact good and evil don't actually exist.
It does have the edge, but its better than being a pussy.
As a lover of giving advice, first tenet doesn't work for me. Also being a dick to annoying people isn't good always. Sometimes you're the one who's being unreasonable. That said the negatives seem more like garden-variety asshole stuff and not outright evil (...usually) so it's better than a lot of things. That said I can imagine a lot of satanists abusing the fuck out of stand-your-ground rules with the last tenet.
To be fair you spent some time to actively make this look negative, all based on basic statements and a shit ton of assumption and straw manning on your part. Read the Satanic Bible and then defy. If you put the effort into the source, this wouldn't look so hostile and flippant.
This is all assumption and not based on the rest of Satanic belief. Satanists only defend and don't go on the offensive so that makes no sense. It doesn't state its OK to be a dick, in fact its the opposite. Abrahamic religions are the "chosen people" and look down on others as inferior.
@detectivepope a couple of questions for clarification. Satanic Statements No 8: Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification! What does this mean in practice? Does Satan represents imply condones, or something different? What is meant by sin here? I presume that Satanism isn't saying that murder for fun is OK for example. Satanic Sins No 3: Solipsism In it's pure form this a perspective that only you yourself can be known to exist. This is can be a logically held insight, which has no ethical component at all. Alternatively it can be one of the most horrible existential experiences that anyone can ever encounter and is the closest I've come across to an isolated, living hell - there is no choice in this experience, it just happens. I presume that neither of these is what this Satanist sin is referring to.
That's fine as long as one conceives of spitefulness in terms of values. But scientifically (though the psychological study of spite is not very developed) it would appear that spite, although it can bring psychological benefit in the short-term, is actually harmful long-term--and here I mean harmful to the spiteful individual. This also applies to the psychology of revenge. Now suppose psychological research into spite becomes more mature and converges towards the above (provisional) conclusion. What would Satanists do then? Presumably they would have to update their beliefs and reject spite, since to them science is the overarching 'truth'. Thus the questions becomes: would they be ready to do that. I think this is symptomatic of a broader tension between the embrace of science, on the one hand, and the rejection of traditional religious values on the other. It may well be that what a traditional religion considers 'good' is also corroborated by science as, say, a healthy psychological mechanism. So if Satanism values science above all, it must be open to the possibility that its values may overlap with those of traditional religions.
I did no such thing. If I speak of it negatively, then it is because it appeared negatively to me from the start. And what it appears to me is a bad interpretation of Nietzsche. If I'm being flippant, then it is because I'm deadly serious about it, for if a doctrine can't accommodate humor and a healthy dose of paradox within itself, I must wonder if even its adherents understand it. Granted, I haven't studied it in detail, but in the meantime you're free to elucidate any of the points.
I saw Nietzsche in there too. There were bits that seemed relatively aligned with his views. But the thing about spite/[insert negative emotion] is that it's not very different in substance from ressentiment, so he would probably see Satanism as just another version of Christianity (albeit reversed or whatever). Basically still caring way too much about God.
That struck me too. Mostly the expressions of what Satanism consists of are secular in nature. Presenting themselves to the world at large with that name is anything but secular though because it will be associated by everyone else with devil worshippers. I'm not talking about what Satanists mean by their beliefs, but the way others will see the organisation, given its name. I'm not sure if this hint of horror film is intended, but that's what is bound to happen.
It seems to be more of a Randian distillation of Nietzsche actually.
How is it going @detectivepope? I was a little worried when you opened this thread that it would be full of responses by people who don't understand Satanism and don't bother to look up what it is about before commenting about stereotypes. I ...uh..wasn't... exactly... wrong. It was brave to create this thread. A Satanist friend has been fired from jobs and had his IG account suspended, not for anything he posted, but because ignorant people trolled and reported innocent photos. He suffers from depression due to lack of acceptance. Other Satanist friends have had easier times, but they also keep their faith quiet.
It’s been a very useful thread for me because the idea of secular Satanism wasn’t one that I’d come across previously. The other two forms I was already aware of - one a form of pagan faith, misunderstood down the ages as devil worship; the other actually based on the Satan of the Abrahamic religions. I gather from searching the internet that all three of these forms of Satanism have followers. I’m not sure if all the people who follow these paths would describe themselves as Satanists though.
Same here John, I feel like I learned genuinely new information thanks to this thread. @Asa I didn't really see what you describe (with perhaps a couple exceptions). If someone creates a thread about Satanism it's normal to expect discussion to arise, and for that discussion to incorporate a critical element. Critical discussion is also a way of showing openness and interest. If anything, I'm disappointed that @detectivepope didn't answer the more challenging questions.