Reflections on Ni

That's why I try and liken some of what people compare from Ne to Ni or Fe to Fi (or any function) to the differences b/t extroversion and introversion.

Some disagree with this view, but I think it is easier to look at the function itself, THEN apply introversion or extroversion to it.

Look at Jungs definitions of introvert/extrovert, then look at the definition of Thinking for example, then apply the I or E to the T. Then you have Te and Ti.

I think when people start seeing Ti and Te as two completely different functions, communication goes out the windows because everyone has their own idea of what each one means.


I want to point out too that in Socionics, introverted perceivers have an introverted perception function first. If you feel you use Ni more, maybe you are a Socionics INxP. This would mean your primary function is Ni, not Ti or Fi.


I know what you mean about the Ni coming from outside of you considering your religious beliefs. I think that's a good way to look at it.

 

Fi and Ni do have some similar patterns to them. However, they are completely different functions, with very different processing schemes.

Fi and Ni get gut feelings, but gut feelings is more attributed to Ni. Fi gut feelings would be more gut reactions to morals, convictions, and what you want from someone around you, and what matches what you want. Ni gets gut feelings about and idea, thought, feeling, or theory without knowing the point or origin. Fi often can find the point of origin and trace back to where the thought came from, where as Ni often can not (unless it is passed through another function, such as Te).

As they are both very internal functions, and often have attributes about them that can't be fully explained, the line between them gets blurred. This is why you will often see people on the board here test with equally high Fi and Ni scores, and thus become confused if they are INFP or INFJ. It takes a long time for one to internally seperate Ni and Fi, as they are apparent overlaps. I used to think my Fi score was right behind my Ni score. However, I have come to realise that this is not the case. It took a while for me to accept that when it comes to personal things, I don't always weigh out the meaning and worth of something in a way to apply to myself and then decide if I will do something or not based on that. I sort of wanted myself to be that way, so I tricked myself into thinking I was that way. I would venture to guess there are a handful of people in the same boat as I was with wanting to have a high Fi score. Because it would appear as desirable for an INFJ, and conforming to social rituals would be seen as a bad thing.

 

Well actually, Ni or Ne or any perception function can't operate on its own, neither can a judgment function. Ni doesn't give gut feelings alone, it combines with an extroverted judgment function to do so. In order to have a gut feeling, we need to have perceived information and made a judgment.



"I don't always weigh out the meaning and worth of something in a way to apply to myself and then decide if I will do something or not based on that. I sort of wanted myself to be that way, so I tricked myself into thinking I was that way. I would venture to guess there are a handful of people in the same boat as I was with wanting to have a high Fi score."

This is an interesting insight, do you think it would be possible to talk more about this, I am curious as to what ideas you have.

Also to point out again, if you think you are high in Fi, you may want to check out Socionics which puts INFJs as (also, INFJs don't always test as INFPs and vice versa when they go from MBTI to Socionics

Introverted Feeling
Extroverted Intuition

Might give you some added insight or at least be entertaining to read, if you haven't already.

 

I don't know that this brings any benefit to you tread but here it is :becky:

I was watching the film "father damian" today. You know, the Belgian priest that went to Molokai to help the lepers. Anyway, I lot of times in the film he was talking about God: "you have to trust in God" or "God is not talking to me any more" or "God shows me the way". And it came to me, he spoke of God the way that I speak of my intuition. When I say that I follow my intuition, he would explain it by saying that I follow the word or wishes of God. So my Idea is that the knowing that comes from God is the same as the knowing that comes from our intuition. And to me, God isn't outside of me, he is insight me and wether the "knowing" comes from Him or myself, doesn't matter to me.

 

thanks for your reply, I was not sure you would understand

uhmm, I didn't that too . I'm born catholic and when I was I child I was religious and searching for God and hoping to hear him talking to me (never happened). I still do that but without the cross and searching for my deepest self instead of God. Somewhere on the road I lossed my faith in the catholic church with all the hypocrisy, the guilt, confession, stupid rules. They are missing the essence. the clue is (to me) to not search for God outside yourself but within. God is intuition and when you follow your intuition, you follow God and you authomaticaly do what is right. Not what the church say it is right but what is right to you. So yeah, I think they are the same. And I think that is what Jesus tryed to tell us

 

yes exactly

but being spiritual doesn't necesary means that you don't believe in God or Jesus. you just don't do it at the "right" way

But searching for God insight yourself, living according to your own intuition with a deep respect and believe for what is insight you, is more valuable than following all the rules in the world!

 

going back to your second question:

There is a big difference between Ni and Fi.

Ni means that you gather your information based on your intuition, flashes of insight that seem to bubble up from the unconscious mind
Fi means that you come to decisions by associating or empathizing with the situation, looking at it 'from the inside' and weighing the situation to achieve, on balance, the greatest harmony, consensus and fit, considering the needs of the people involved. (stoled from wikipedia)

So both are based on gut feeling but they are complete different functions.

But it is confusing for me to because I have the feeling that my Fi decision making is not based on my intuition/my knowing of my true path and stuff but rather on what would be best to create the greatest harmony and fulfill the needs of the people involved in the decision. It is rather annoying because this means I do what is best for the group at that moment and not what is best for me!

 

Well, I would be inclined to agree with you, I believe. Science really has a lot to do with proving hunches; in order to allow freedom of discovery, you have to allow for some good ol' intuition

 

Isn't that the difference between NTJ and NTP?

NTJ = N dominant T auxiliary
NTP = N auxiliary T dominant

or am I not understanding the P-J?

 

nope,

this is how I understand it (by reading wikipedia):

suppose you are NF

of you have a J that means that you have preference for the judgemental function (T or F), when you are P then you prefer the perceiving one (N or S) (sorry for my bad english, it is not easy to write what you want to say if you have to look up a translation and spelling in every sentence )

So when you are NFJ this means that F is extraverted and N is introverted so: NiFe
when you are NFP it is the other way around: NeFi

Then the E or I tells us wich one (the perceiving or the judgemental) is dominant.

When you are E it is the extraverted one that is dominant, when you are I it is the introverted one

INFJ: Ni is dominant and Fe is auxiliary
ENFJ: Fe is dominant and Ni is auxiliary
ENFP: Ne is dominant and Fi auxiliary
INFP: Fi is dominant and Ne auxiliary

correct me if I'm wrong :becky:

 

You are 100% right, I didn't get the differences between IxxJ order and ExxJ order until I read it again after I posted that.