Putins message to western leaders: playtime is over | INFJ Forum

Putins message to western leaders: playtime is over

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[h=3]Putin to Western elites: Play-time is over[/h] [h=5]A unilateral diktat and imposing one’s own models produces the opposite result[/h]


Image Credits: Republic of Korea / Flickr



by Dmitry Orlov | Cluborlov | October 30, 2014


[h=5]Most people in the English-speaking parts of the world missed Putin’s speech at the Valdai conference in Sochi a few days ago, and, chances are, those of you who have heard of the speech didn’t get a chance to read it, and missed its importance.[/h] (For your convenience, I am pasting in the full transcript of his speech below.) Western media did their best to ignore it or to twist its meaning. Regardless of what you think or don’t think of Putin (like the sun and the moon, he does not exist for you to cultivate an opinion) this is probably the most important political speech since Churchill’s “Iron Curtain” speech of March 5, 1946.
In this speech, Putin abruptly changed the rules of the game. Previously, the game of international politics was played as follows: politicians made public pronouncements, for the sake of maintaining a pleasant fiction of national sovereignty, but they were strictly for show and had nothing to do with the substance of international politics; in the meantime, they engaged in secret back-room negotiations, in which the actual deals were hammered out. Previously, Putin tried to play this game, expecting only that Russia be treated as an equal. But these hopes have been dashed, and at this conference he declared the game to be over, explicitly violating Western taboo by speaking directly to the people over the heads of elite clans and political leaders.
The Russian blogger chipstone summarized the most salient points from Putin speech as follows:

1. Russia will no longer play games and engage in back-room negotiations over trifles. But Russia is prepared for serious conversations and agreements, if these are conducive to collective security, are based on fairness and take into account the interests of each side.

2. All systems of global collective security now lie in ruins. There are no longer any international security guarantees at all. And the entity that destroyed them has a name: The United States of America.
3. The builders of the New World Order have failed, having built a sand castle. Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia’s decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia.
4. Russia favors a conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order, but is not opposed to investigating and discussing such innovations, to see if introducing any of them might be justified.
5. Russia has no intention of going fishing in the murky waters created by America’s ever-expanding “empire of chaos,” and has no interest in building a new empire of her own (this is unnecessary; Russia’s challenges lie in developing her already vast territory). Neither is Russia willing to act as a savior of the world, as she had in the past.
6. Russia will not attempt to reformat the world in her own image, but neither will she allow anyone to reformat her in their image. Russia will not close herself off from the world, but anyone who tries to close her off from the world will be sure to reap a whirlwind.
7. Russia does not wish for the chaos to spread, does not want war, and has no intention of starting one. However, today Russia sees the outbreak of global war as almost inevitable, is prepared for it, and is continuing to prepare for it. Russia does not war–nor does she fear it.
8. Russia does not intend to take an active role in thwarting those who are still attempting to construct their New World Order–until their efforts start to impinge on Russia’s key interests. Russia would prefer to stand by and watch them give themselves as many lumps as their poor heads can take. But those who manage to drag Russia into this process, through disregard for her interests, will be taught the true meaning of pain.
9. In her external, and, even more so, internal politics, Russia’s power will rely not on the elites and their back-room dealing, but onthe will of the people.
To these nine points I would like to add a tenth:
10. There is still a chance to construct a new world order that will avoid a world war. This new world order must of necessity include the United States–but can only do so on the same terms as everyone else: subject to international law and international agreements; refraining from all unilateral action; in full respect of the sovereignty of other nations.
To sum it all up: play-time is over. Children, put away your toys. Now is the time for the adults to make decisions. Russia is ready for this; is the world?
[h=5]Text of Vladimir Putin’s speech and a question and answer session at the final plenary meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club’s XI session in Sochi on 24 October 2014.[/h] It was mentioned already that the club has new co-organizers this year. They include Russian non-governmental organizations, expert groups and leading universities. The idea was also raised of broadening the discussions to include not just issues related to Russia itself but also global politics and the economy.
An organization and content will bolster the club’s influence as a leading discussion and expert forum. At the same time, I hope the ‘Valdai spirit’ will remain — this free and open atmosphere and chance to express all manner of very different and frank opinions.
Let me say in this respect that I will also not let you down and will speak directly and frankly. Some of what I say might seem a bit too harsh, but if we do not speak directly and honestly about what we really think, then there is little point in even meeting in this way. It would be better in that case just to keep to diplomatic get-togethers, where no one says anything of real sense and, recalling the words of one famous diplomat, you realize that diplomats have tongues so as not to speak the truth.
We get together for other reasons. We get together so as to talk frankly with each other. We need to be direct and blunt today not so as to trade barbs, but so as to attempt to get to the bottom of what is actually happening in the world, try to understand why the world is becoming less safe and more unpredictable, and why the risks are increasing everywhere around us.
Today’s discussion took place under the theme: New Rules or a Game without Rules. I think that this formula accurately describes the historic turning point we have reached today and the choice we all face. There is nothing new of course in the idea that the world is changing very fast. I know this is something you have spoken about at the discussions today. It is certainly hard not to notice the dramatic transformations in global politics and the economy, public life, and in industry, information and social technologies.
Let me ask you right now to forgive me if I end up repeating what some of the discussion’s participants have already said. It’s practically impossible to avoid. You have already held detailed discussions, but I will set out my point of view. It will coincide with other participants’ views on some points and differ on others.
As we analyze today’s situation, let us not forget history’s lessons. First of all, changes in the world order — and what we are seeing today are events on this scale — have usually been accompanied by if not global war and conflict, then by chains of intensive local-level conflicts. Second, global politics is above all about economic leadership, issues of war and peace, and the humanitarian dimension, including human rights.
The world is full of contradictions today. We need to be frank in asking each other if we have a reliable safety net in place. Sadly, there is no guarantee and no certainty that the current system of global and regional security is able to protect us from upheavals. This system has become seriously weakened, fragmented and deformed. The international and regional political, economic, and cultural cooperation organizations are also going through difficult times.
Yes, many of the mechanisms we have for ensuring the world order were created quite a long time ago now, including and above all in the period immediately following World War II. Let me stress that the solidity of the system created back then rested not only on the balance of power and the rights of the victor countries, but on the fact that this system’s ‘founding fathers’ had respect for each other, did not try to put the squeeze on others, but attempted to reach agreements.
The main thing is that this system needs to develop, and despite its various shortcomings, needs to at least be capable of keeping the world’s current problems within certain limits and regulating the intensity of the natural competition between countries.
It is my conviction that we could not take this mechanism of checks and balances that we built over the last decades, sometimes with such effort and difficulty, and simply tear it apart without building anything in its place. Otherwise we would be left with no instruments other than brute force.
What we needed to do was to carry out a rational reconstruction and adapt it the new realities in the system of international relations.
But the United States, having declared itself the winner of the Cold War, saw no need for this. Instead of establishing a new balance of power, essential for maintaining order and stability, they took steps that threw the system into sharp and deep imbalance.
The Cold War ended, but it did not end with the signing of a peace treaty with clear and transparent agreements on respecting existing rules or creating new rules and standards. This created the impression that the so-called ‘victors’ in the Cold War had decided to pressure events and reshape the world to suit their own needs and interests. If the existing system of international relations, international law and the checks and balances in place got in the way of these aims, this system was declared worthless, outdated and in need of immediate demolition.
Pardon the analogy, but this is the way nouveaux riches behave when they suddenly end up with a great fortune, in this case, in the shape of world leadership and domination. Instead of managing their wealth wisely, for their own benefit too of course, I think they have committed many follies.
We have entered a period of differing interpretations and deliberate silences in world politics. International law has been forced to retreat over and over by the onslaught of legal nihilism. Objectivity and justice have been sacrificed on the altar of political expediency. Arbitrary interpretations and biased assessments have replaced legal norms. At the same time, total control of the global mass media has made it possible when desired to portray white as black and black as white.
In a situation where you had domination by one country and its allies, or its satellites rather, the search for global solutions often turned into an attempt to impose their own universal recipes. This group’s ambitions grew so big that they started presenting the policies they put together in their corridors of power as the view of the entire international community. But this is not the case.
The very notion of ‘national sovereignty’ became a relative value for most countries. In essence, what was being proposed was the formula: the greater the loyalty towards the world’s sole power centre, the greater this or that ruling regime’s legitimacy.
We will have a free discussion afterwards and I will be happy to answer your questions and would also like to use my right to ask you questions. Let someone try to disprove the arguments that I just set out during the upcoming discussion.
The measures taken against those who refuse to submit are well-known and have been tried and tested many times. They include use of force, economic and propaganda pressure, meddling in domestic affairs, and appeals to a kind of ‘supra-legal’ legitimacy when they need to justify illegal intervention in this or that conflict or toppling inconvenient regimes. Of late, we have increasing evidence too that outright blackmail has been used with regard to a number of leaders. It is not for nothing that ‘big brother’ is spending billions of dollars on keeping the whole world, including its own closest allies, under surveillance.
Let’s ask ourselves, how comfortable are we with this, how safe are we, how happy living in this world, and how fair and rational has it become? Maybe, we have no real reasons to worry, argue and ask awkward questions? Maybe the United States’ exceptional position and the way they are carrying out their leadership really is a blessing for us all, and their meddling in events all around the world is bringing peace, prosperity, progress, growth and democracy, and we should maybe just relax and enjoy it all?
Let me say that this is not the case, absolutely not the case.
A unilateral diktat and imposing one’s own models produces the opposite result. Instead of settling conflicts it leads to their escalation, instead of sovereign and stable states we see the growing spread of chaos, and instead of democracy there is support for a very dubious public ranging from open neo-fascists to Islamic radicals.
Why do they support such people? They do this because they decide to use them as instruments along the way in achieving their goals but then burn their fingers and recoil. I never cease to be amazed by the way that our partners just keep stepping on the same rake, as we say here in Russia, that is to say, make the same mistake over and over.
They once sponsored Islamic extremist movements to fight the Soviet Union. Those groups got their battle experience in Afghanistan and later gave birth to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. The West if not supported, at least closed its eyes, and, I would say, gave information, political and financial support to international terrorists’ invasion of Russia (we have not forgotten this) and the Central Asian region’s countries. Only after horrific terrorist attacks were committed on US soil itself did the United States wake up to the common threat of terrorism. Let me remind you that we were the first country to support the American people back then, the first to react as friends and partners to the terrible tragedy of September 11.
During my conversations with American and European leaders, I always spoke of the need to fight terrorism together, as a challenge on a global scale. We cannot resign ourselves to and accept this threat, cannot cut it into separate pieces using double standards. Our partners expressed agreement, but a little time passed and we ended up back where we started. First there was the military operation in Iraq, then in Libya, which got pushed to the brink of falling apart. Why was Libya pushed into this situation? Today it is a country in danger of breaking apart and has become a training ground for terrorists.
Only the current Egyptian leadership’s determination and wisdom saved this key Arab country from chaos and having extremists run rampant. In Syria, as in the past, the United States and its allies started directly financing and arming rebels and allowing them to fill their ranks with mercenaries from various countries. Let me ask where do these rebels get their money, arms and military specialists? Where does all this come from? How did the notorious ISIL manage to become such a powerful group, essentially a real armed force?
As for financing sources, today, the money is coming not just from drugs, production of which has increased not just by a few percentage points but many-fold, since the international coalition forces have been present in Afghanistan. You are aware of this. The terrorists are getting money from selling oil too. Oil is produced in territory controlled by the terrorists, who sell it at dumping prices, produce it and transport it. But someone buys this oil, resells it, and makes a profit from it, not thinking about the fact that they are thus financing terrorists who could come sooner or later to their own soil and sow destruction in their own countries.
Where do they get new recruits? In Iraq, after Saddam Hussein was toppled, the state’s institutions, including the army, were left in ruins. We said back then, be very, very careful. You are driving people out into the street, and what will they do there? Don’t forget (rightfully or not) that they were in the leadership of a large regional power, and what are you now turning them into?
What was the result? Tens of thousands of soldiers, officers and former Baath Party activists were turned out into the streets and today have joined the rebels’ ranks. Perhaps this is what explains why the Islamic State group has turned out so effective? In military terms, it is acting very effectively and has some very professional people. Russia warned repeatedly about the dangers of unilateral military actions, intervening in sovereign states’ affairs, and flirting with extremists and radicals. We insisted on having the groups fighting the central Syrian government, above all the Islamic State, included on the lists of terrorist organizations. But did we see any results? We appealed in vain.
We sometimes get the impression that our colleagues and friends are constantly fighting the consequences of their own policies, throw all their effort into addressing the risks they themselves have created, and pay an ever-greater price.
Colleagues, this period of unipolar domination has convincingly demonstrated that having only one power centre does not make global processes more manageable. On the contrary, this kind of unstable construction has shown its inability to fight the real threats such as regional conflicts, terrorism, drug trafficking, religious fanaticism, chauvinism and neo-Nazism. At the same time, it has opened the road wide for inflated national pride, manipulating public opinion and letting the strong bully and suppress the weak.
Essentially, the unipolar world is simply a means of justifying dictatorship over people and countries. The unipolar world turned out too uncomfortable, heavy and unmanageable a burden even for the self-proclaimed leader. Comments along this line were made here just before and I fully agree with this. This is why we see attempts at this new historic stage to recreate a semblance of a quasi-bipolar world as a convenient model for perpetuating American leadership. It does not matter who takes the place of the centre of evil in American propaganda, the USSR’s old place as the main adversary. It could be Iran, as a country seeking to acquire nuclear technology, China, as the world’s biggest economy, or Russia, as a nuclear superpower.
Today, we are seeing new efforts to fragment the world, draw new dividing lines, put together coalitions not built for something but directed against someone, anyone, create the image of an enemy as was the case during the Cold War years, and obtain the right to this leadership, or diktat if you wish. The situation was presented this way during the Cold War. We all understand this and know this. The United States always told its allies: “We have a common enemy, a terrible foe, the centre of evil, and we are defending you, our allies, from this foe, and so we have the right to order you around, force you to sacrifice your political and economic interests and pay your share of the costs for this collective defense, but we will be the ones in charge of it all of course.” In short, we see today attempts in a new and changing world to reproduce the familiar models of global management, and all this so as to guarantee their [the US’] exceptional position and reap political and economic dividends.
But these attempts are increasingly divorced from reality and are in contradiction with the world’s diversity. Steps of this kind inevitably create confrontation and countermeasures and have the opposite effect to the hoped-for goals. We see what happens when politics rashly starts meddling in the economy and the logic of rational decisions gives way to the logic of confrontation that only hurt one’s own economic positions and interests, including national business interests.
Joint economic projects and mutual investment objectively bring countries closer together and help to smooth out current problems in relations between states. But today, the global business community faces unprecedented pressure from Western governments. What business, economic expediency and pragmatism can we speak of when we hear slogans such as “the homeland is in danger”, “the free world is under threat”, and “democracy is in jeopardy”? And so everyone needs to mobilize. That is what a real mobilization policy looks like.
Sanctions are already undermining the foundations of world trade, the WTO rules and the principle of inviolability of private property. They are dealing a blow to liberal model of globalization based on markets, freedom and competition, which, let me note, is a model that has primarily benefited precisely the Western countries. And now they risk losing trust as the leaders of globalization. We have to ask ourselves, why was this necessary? After all, the United States’ prosperity rests in large part on the trust of investors and foreign holders of dollars and US securities. This trust is clearly being undermined and signs of disappointment in the fruits of globalization are visible now in many countries. 

The well-known Cyprus precedent and the politically motivated sanctions have only strengthened the trend towards seeking to bolster economic and financial sovereignty and countries’ or their regional groups’ desire to find ways of protecting themselves from the risks of outside pressure. We already see that more and more countries are looking for ways to become less dependent on the dollar and are setting up alternative financial and payments systems and reserve currencies. I think that our American friends are quite simply cutting the branch they are sitting on. You cannot mix politics and the economy, but this is what is happening now. I have always thought and still think today that politically motivated sanctions were a mistake that will harm everyone, but I am sure that we will come back to this subject later.
We know how these decisions were taken and who was applying the pressure. But let me stress that Russia is not going to get all worked up, get offended or come begging at anyone’s door. Russia is a self-sufficient country. We will work within the foreign economic environment that has taken shape, develop domestic production and technology and act more decisively to carry out transformation. Pressure from outside, as has been the case on past occasions, will only consolidate our society, keep us alert and make us concentrate on our main development goals.
Of course the sanctions are a hindrance. They are trying to hurt us through these sanctions, block our development and push us into political, economic and cultural isolation, force us into backwardness in other words. But let me say yet again that the world is a very different place today. We have no intention of shutting ourselves off from anyone and choosing some kind of closed development road, trying to live in autarky. We are always open to dialogue, including on normalizing our economic and political relations. We are counting here on the pragmatic approach and position of business communities in the leading countries.
Some are saying today that Russia is supposedly turning its back on Europe — such words were probably spoken already here too during the discussions — and is looking for new business partners, above all in Asia. Let me say that this is absolutely not the case. Our active policy in the Asian-Pacific region began not just yesterday and not in response to sanctions, but is a policy that we have been following for a good many years now. Like many other countries, including Western countries, we saw that Asia is playing an ever greater role in the world, in the economy and in politics, and there is simply no way we can afford to overlook these developments.
Let me say again that everyone is doing this, and we will do so to, all the more so as a large part of our country is geographically in Asia. Why should we not make use of our competitive advantages in this area? It would be extremely shortsighted not to do so.
Developing economic ties with these countries and carrying out joint integration projects also creates big incentives for our domestic development. Today’s demographic, economic and cultural trends all suggest that dependence on a sole superpower will objectively decrease. This is something that European and American experts have been talking and writing about too.
Perhaps developments in global politics will mirror the developments we are seeing in the global economy, namely, intensive competition for specific niches and frequent change of leaders in specific areas. This is entirely possible.
There is no doubt that humanitarian factors such as education, science, healthcare and culture are playing a greater role in global competition. This also has a big impact on international relations, including because this ‘soft power’ resource will depend to a great extent on real achievements in developing human capital rather than on sophisticated propaganda tricks.
At the same time, the formation of a so-called polycentric world (I would also like to draw attention to this, colleagues) in and of itself does not improve stability; in fact, it is more likely to be the opposite. The goal of reaching global equilibrium is turning into a fairly difficult puzzle, an equation with many unknowns.
So, what is in store for us if we choose not to live by the rules — even if they may be strict and inconvenient — but rather live without any rules at all? And that scenario is entirely possible; we cannot rule it out, given the tensions in the global situation. Many predictions can already be made, taking into account current trends, and unfortunately, they are not optimistic. If we do not create a clear system of mutual commitments and agreements, if we do not build the mechanisms for managing and resolving crisis situations, the symptoms of global anarchy will inevitably grow.
Today, we already see a sharp increase in the likelihood of a whole set of violent conflicts with either direct or indirect participation by the world’s major powers. And the risk factors include not just traditional multinational conflicts, but also the internal instability in separate states, especially when we talk about nations located at the intersections of major states’ geopolitical interests, or on the border of cultural, historical, and economic civilizational continents.
Ukraine, which I’m sure was discussed at length and which we will discuss some more, is one of the example of such sorts of conflicts that affect international power balance, and I think it will certainly not be the last. From here emanates the next real threat of destroying the current system of arms control agreements. And this dangerous process was launched by the United States of America when it unilaterally withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002, and then set about and continues today to actively pursue the creation of its global missile defense system.
Colleagues, friends, I want to point out that we did not start this. Once again, we are sliding into the times when, instead of the balance of interests and mutual guarantees, it is fear and the balance of mutual destruction that prevent nations from engaging in direct conflict. In absence of legal and political instruments, arms are once again becoming the focal point of the global agenda; they are used wherever and however, without any UN Security Council sanctions. And if the Security Council refuses to produce such decisions, then it is immediately declared to be an outdated and ineffective instrument.
Many states do not see any other ways of ensuring their sovereignty but to obtain their own bombs. This is extremely dangerous. We insist on continuing talks; we are not only in favor of talks, but insist on continuing talks to reduce nuclear arsenals. The less nuclear weapons we have in the world, the better. And we are ready for the most serious, concrete discussions on nuclear disarmament — but only serious discussions without any double standards.
What do I mean? Today, many types of high-precision weaponry are already close to mass-destruction weapons in terms of their capabilities, and in the event of full renunciation of nuclear weapons or radical reduction of nuclear potential, nations that are leaders in creating and producing high-precision systems will have a clear military advantage. Strategic parity will be disrupted, and this is likely to bring destabilization. The use of a so-called first global pre-emptive strike may become tempting. In short, the risks do not decrease, but intensify.
The next obvious threat is the further escalation of ethnic, religious, and social conflicts. Such conflicts are dangerous not only as such, but also because they create zones of anarchy, lawlessness, and chaos around them, places that are comfortable for terrorists and criminals, where piracy, human trafficking, and drug trafficking flourish.
Incidentally, at the time, our colleagues tried to somehow manage these processes, use regional conflicts and design ‘color revolutions’ to suit their interests, but the genie escaped the bottle. It looks like the controlled chaos theory fathers themselves do not know what to do with it; there is disarray in their ranks.
We closely follow the discussions by both the ruling elite and the expert community. It is enough to look at the headlines of the Western press over the last year. The same people are called fighters for democracy, and then Islamists; first they write about revolutions and then call them riots and upheavals. The result is obvious: the further expansion of global chaos.
Colleagues, given the global situation, it is time to start agreeing on fundamental things. This is incredibly important and necessary; this is much better than going back to our own corners. The more we all face common problems, the more we find ourselves in the same boat, so to speak. And the logical way out is in cooperation between nations, societies, in finding collective answers to increasing challenges, and in joint risk management. Granted, some of our partners, for some reason, remember this only when it suits their interests.
Practical experience shows that joint answers to challenges are not always a panacea; and we need to understand this. Moreover, in most cases, they are hard to reach; it is not easy to overcome the differences in national interests, the subjectivity of different approaches, particularly when it comes to nations with different cultural and historical traditions. But nevertheless, we have examples when, having common goals and acting based on the same criteria, together we achieved real success.
Let me remind you about solving the problem of chemical weapons in Syria, and the substantive dialogue on the Iranian nuclear program, as well as our work on North Korean issues, which also has some positive results. Why can’t we use this experience in the future to solve local and global challenges?
What could be the legal, political, and economic basis for a new world order that would allow for stability and security, while encouraging healthy competition, not allowing the formation of new monopolies that hinder development? It is unlikely that someone could provide absolutely exhaustive, ready-made solutions right now. We will need extensive work with participation by a wide range of governments, global businesses, civil society, and such expert platforms as ours.
However, it is obvious that success and real results are only possible if key participants in international affairs can agree on harmonizing basic interests, on reasonable self-restraint, and set the example of positive and responsible leadership. We must clearly identify where unilateral actions end and we need to apply multilateral mechanisms, and as part of improving the effectiveness of international law, we must resolve the dilemma between the actions by international community to ensure security and human rights and the principle of national sovereignty and non-interference in the internal affairs of any state.
Those very collisions increasingly lead to arbitrary external interference in complex internal processes, and time and again, they provoke dangerous conflicts between leading global players. The issue of maintaining sovereignty becomes almost paramount in maintaining and strengthening global stability.
Clearly, discussing the criteria for the use of external force is extremely difficult; it is practically impossible to separate it from the interests of particular nations. However, it is far more dangerous when there are no agreements that are clear to everyone, when no clear conditions are set for necessary and legal interference.
I will add that international relations must be based on international law, which itself should rest on moral principles such as justice, equality and truth. Perhaps most important is respect for one’s partners and their interests. This is an obvious formula, but simply following it could radically change the global situation.
I am certain that if there is a will, we can restore the effectiveness of the international and regional institutions system. We do not even need to build anything anew, from the scratch; this is not a “greenfield,” especially since the institutions created after World War II are quite universal and can be given modern substance, adequate to manage the current situation.
This is true of improving the work of the UN, whose central role is irreplaceable, as well as the OSCE, which, over the course of 40 years, has proven to be a necessary mechanism for ensuring security and cooperation in the Euro-Atlantic region. I must say that even now, in trying to resolve the crisis in southeast Ukraine, the OSCE is playing a very positive role.
In light of the fundamental changes in the international environment, the increase in uncontrollability and various threats, we need a new global consensus of responsible forces. It’s not about some local deals or a division of spheres of influence in the spirit of classic diplomacy, or somebody’s complete global domination. I think that we need a new version of interdependence. We should not be afraid of it. On the contrary, this is a good instrument for harmonizing positions.
This is particularly relevant given the strengthening and growth of certain regions on the planet, which process objectively requires institutionalization of such new poles, creating powerful regional organizations and developing rules for their interaction. Cooperation between these centers would seriously add to the stability of global security, policy and economy. But in order to establish such a dialogue, we need to proceed from the assumption that all regional centers and integration projects forming around them need to have equal rights to development, so that they can complement each other and nobody can force them into conflict or opposition artificially. Such destructive actions would break down ties between states, and the states themselves would be subjected to extreme hardship, or perhaps even total destruction.
I would like to remind you of the last year’s events. We have told our American and European partners that hasty backstage decisions, for example, on Ukraine’s association with the EU, are fraught with serious risks to the economy. We didn’t even say anything about politics; we spoke only about the economy, saying that such steps, made without any prior arrangements, touch on the interests of many other nations, including Russia as Ukraine’s main trade partner, and that a wide discussion of the issues is necessary. Incidentally, in this regard, I will remind you that, for example, the talks on Russia’s accession to the WTO lasted 19 years. This was very difficult work, and a certain consensus was reached.
Why am I bringing this up? Because in implementing Ukraine’s association project, our partners would come to us with their goods and services through the back gate, so to speak, and we did not agree to this, nobody asked us about this. We had discussions on all topics related to Ukraine’s association with the EU, persistent discussions, but I want to stress that this was done in an entirely civilized manner, indicating possible problems, showing the obvious reasoning and arguments. Nobody wanted to listen to us and nobody wanted to talk. They simply told us: this is none of your business, point, end of discussion. Instead of a comprehensive but — I stress — civilized dialogue, it all came down to a government overthrow; they plunged the country into chaos, into economic and social collapse, into a civil war with enormous casualties.
Why? When I ask my colleagues why, they no longer have an answer; nobody says anything. That’s it. Everyone’s at a loss, saying it just turned out that way. Those actions should not have been encouraged — it wouldn’t have worked. After all (I already spoke about this), former Ukrainian President Yanukovych signed everything, agreed with everything. Why do it? What was the point? What is this, a civilized way of solving problems? Apparently, those who constantly throw together new ‘color revolutions’ consider themselves ‘brilliant artists’ and simply cannot stop.
I am certain that the work of integrated associations, the cooperation of regional structures, should be built on a transparent, clear basis; the Eurasian Economic Union’s formation process is a good example of such transparency. The states that are parties to this project informed their partners of their plans in advance, specifying the parameters of our association, the principles of its work, which fully correspond with the World Trade Organization rules.
I will add that we would also have welcomed the start of a concrete dialogue between the Eurasian and European Union. Incidentally, they have almost completely refused us this as well, and it is also unclear why — what is so scary about it?
And, of course, with such joint work, we would think that we need to engage in dialogue (I spoke about this many times and heard agreement from many of our western partners, at least in Europe) on the need to create a common space for economic and humanitarian cooperation stretching all the way from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean.
Colleagues, Russia made its choice. Our priorities are further improving our democratic and open economy institutions, accelerated internal development, taking into account all the positive modern trends in the world, and consolidating society based on traditional values and patriotism.
We have an integration-oriented, positive, peaceful agenda; we are working actively with our colleagues in the Eurasian Economic Union, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, BRICS and other partners. This agenda is aimed at developing ties between governments, not dissociating. We are not planning to cobble together any blocs or get involved in an exchange of blows.
The allegations and statements that Russia is trying to establish some sort of empire, encroaching on the sovereignty of its neighbors, are groundless. Russia does not need any kind of special, exclusive place in the world — I want to emphasize this. While respecting the interests of others, we simply want for our own interests to be taken into account and for our position to be respected.
We are well aware that the world has entered an era of changes and global transformations, when we all need a particular degree of caution, the ability to avoid thoughtless steps. In the years after the Cold War, participants in global politics lost these qualities somewhat. Now, we need to remember them. Otherwise, hopes for a peaceful, stable development will be a dangerous illusion, while today’s turmoil will simply serve as a prelude to the collapse of world order.
Yes, of course, I have already said that building a more stable world order is a difficult task. We are talking about long and hard work. We were able to develop rules for interaction after World War II, and we were able to reach an agreement in Helsinki in the 1970s. Our common duty is to resolve this fundamental challenge at this new stage of development.
Thank you very much for your attention.
 
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Hi Muir,
Two questions I have from this:
1. Why stop there? Why not bring evidence that MOSSAD/CIA had a hand in Sept 11?

2. Question one brings me to this: Is this more of the same game? Isn't Russia also taking orders from the "elite"?
 
Hi Muir,
Two questions I have from this:
1. Why stop there? Why not bring evidence that MOSSAD/CIA had a hand in Sept 11?

Russia has already said this through it's state sponsored TV channel RT

2. Question one brings me to this: Is this more of the same game? Isn't Russia also taking orders from the "elite"?

How far up the tree do you want to go?

Do you want to go inter-dimensional?

Or are we speaking about the influence of say the rothschilds for example in the material plane?

Elites...El-ite....'El'...saturnian
 
Putin does not like being told what to do, so he is acting like a child and playing with the entire world's security at the same time. Flying a bomber toward UK today is downright trying to pick a fight. If his people are destroyed, he will not have to answer to them. I did not read the thread. I know by now what it must include.
 
[h=1]Kiev claims 'intensive' movements of troops crossing from Russia[/h] 1 hour ago
 
The only thing that puzzles me with Russia is Medvedev introducing a "new world currency" couple of years ago..

http://www.futureworldcurrency.com/Documents.asp?DocumentID=3076

In a highly symbolic moment at the G8 summit in Italy today, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev unveiled to reporters a coin representing a “united future world currency”.
“We are discussing both the use of other national currencies, including the ruble, as a reserve currency, as well as supranational currencies,” the Russian leader said at a news conference.
However, those who have downplayed the formulation of a world currency by dismissing it as merely a progression of SDR’s (Special Drawing Rights) and not something that would physically be used by citizens in a system of world government, were contradicted when Medvedev clearly outlined that the new currency would be “used for payment” by citizens as a “united future world currency”.
“This is a symbol of our unity and our desire to settle such issues jointly,” Medvedev said.

“Here it is,” Medvedev told reporters today in L’Aquila, Italy, after a summit of the Group of Eight nations. “You can see it and touch it,” reports Bloomberg.
The question of a supranational currency “concerns everyone now, even the mints,” Medvedev said. The test coin “means they’re getting ready. I think it’s a good sign that we understand how interdependent we are.”
Medvedev explained that the coin had been minted in Belgium and bears the words “unity in diversity”. An RIA Novosti report noted that the coin represented an example of a “possible global currency”.
 
Very exciting to see this! Thank you so much for sharing here [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]. :bounce:
 
Putin does not like being told what to do, so he is acting like a child and playing with the entire world's security at the same time. Flying a bomber toward UK today is downright trying to pick a fight. If his people are destroyed, he will not have to answer to them. I did not read the thread. I know by now what it must include.

The globalists who control the US and Israel created a coup in Kiev and have taken control of the country to try and disrupt russian oil and gas supplies which flow through ukraine into europe

The globalists have tried and are still trying to takeover syria to stop the flow of oil and gas controlled by russia and its ally iran

So it is not russia being the aggressor. Russia is just trying to show it is not to be messed with

These countries are RIGHT ON RUSSIAS DOORSTEP

The idea behind these moves is to try and break the russian economy because oil and gas form a large part of her economy, so if the globalists can disrupt that they can weaken russia economically because russia is not allowing the NWO that the globalists want; the russians have a different vision for a new order

The equivalent would be for russia to invade canada and stop the flow of resources from there to the US because canada is geographically and culturally close to the US (just like ukraine is to russia)

So....how would the US feel if russia invaded canada?

Do you think the US would try and show that it was not to be messed with?
 
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The only thing that puzzles me with Russia is Medvedev introducing a "new world currency" couple of years ago..

http://www.futureworldcurrency.com/Documents.asp?DocumentID=3076

In a highly symbolic moment at the G8 summit in Italy today, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev unveiled to reporters a coin representing a “united future world currency”.
“We are discussing both the use of other national currencies, including the ruble, as a reserve currency, as well as supranational currencies,” the Russian leader said at a news conference.
However, those who have downplayed the formulation of a world currency by dismissing it as merely a progression of SDR’s (Special Drawing Rights) and not something that would physically be used by citizens in a system of world government, were contradicted when Medvedev clearly outlined that the new currency would be “used for payment” by citizens as a “united future world currency”.
“This is a symbol of our unity and our desire to settle such issues jointly,” Medvedev said.

“Here it is,” Medvedev told reporters today in L’Aquila, Italy, after a summit of the Group of Eight nations. “You can see it and touch it,” reports Bloomberg.
The question of a supranational currency “concerns everyone now, even the mints,” Medvedev said. The test coin “means they’re getting ready. I think it’s a good sign that we understand how interdependent we are.”
Medvedev explained that the coin had been minted in Belgium and bears the words “unity in diversity”. An RIA Novosti report noted that the coin represented an example of a “possible global currency”.

There's a global currency war going on at the moment

After world war 2 the western powers agreed that the dollar would be the world reserve currency and oil would be traded in dollars

This meant that countries held dollars in reserve and that enabled the fed to just print more and more money whilst inflation was hidden by the dollars being offshore in the reserves of other countries

So did the US use this prosperity to bring clean drinking water to the world, or to end world poverty?

No, they used it to build a massive military which they used to bully the world so the world has become sick and tired of it and is now moving away from the dollar

The dollars will then flood back to US markets causing hyperinflation

So the US economy is teetering on the edge of collapse but the russians have their problems too so the US is trying to break russia and russia is waiting for the US economy to collapse

The russians have sought to create new reserve currencies to replace the dollar and the unfair advantage the US has had; this is how the US has managed to not produce things and yet not go broke, by printing money out of thin air!

The US is trying to disrupt russia through the ukraine and syria; these are incredibly aggressive moves and russia is saying it is ready to defend itself

Putin has said publically that he does not share the globalists vision for a 'unipolar world' where all power is centralised under one authority; he has said he wants to see a 'multi-polar world' where there are a number of power centres

Ultimately they are all governments and therefore i am against them in principle as i believe in power being exercised from the people upwards not from the top down

So yeah global currencies are a concern! Global government through hegelian dialectics through the tensions between russia and the US? we'll just have to watch this space
 
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Putin does not like being told what to do, so he is acting like a child and playing with the entire world's security at the same time. Flying a bomber toward UK today is downright trying to pick a fight. If his people are destroyed, he will not have to answer to them. I did not read the thread. I know by now what it must include.

Me too, if Putin doesnt like being dictated too he probably shouldnt start by dictating to anyone else.

Did you see the aircraft which made the incursions into EU and UK airspace (the later has been happening for a long time is usually scheduled for any major political transition, like elections or referendums in the UK)? They were some sorry and low tech machines, now maybe he's making a point that it doesnt take high tech equipment to deliver big bombs since one of them had some kind of big old bomb slung under itself, the reality is that games are being played and a great deal of this is for domestic Russian consumption, even the way the German's framed the payment of fuel money to Russia by the Germans for their domestic consumption, they were saying "Europe will not be cold this winter" while in Russia they were suggesting that the incursions had intimidated central European powers into accepting they needed to pay Russia for power instead of introducing further sanctions.

This is all happening when the UK has introduced some seriously slick and powerful new sea going battleships and warplane carriers, the UK's strike and retaliatory capacities are better than they have been in years, and all at at time when on the political scene the parties which are going from strength to strength are a toxic mix of publically beguiling buffoonery and fiercely nationalistic tendencies like the British National Party and UK Independence Party.

Some of the best military commentators in the US have rightly said that EU, UK and allied capacities far, far outstrip those of Russia but the will isnt there, all the adventurism of the Bush-Blair years have lead to the UK becoming more isolationist in its foreign policies than ever in its history, the EU refused, as is very understandable, any remilitarisation or build up despite encouragement by Bush and Blair for the emergence of a Pax Europa.
 
Ive not heard anything about Russian exploits in the new here recently. Interesting. ..
 
Western media did their best to ignore it or to twist its meaning.
Haha. Such a claim makes me very doubtful about what follows.

Maybe I'm like the western media :p
Realistic, sensible and not easily scared by words?

If credible western media would publish this, I'd disregard them as credible.
Putin has a history of tough words.

The speech made me think of this:
meh.ro11611.jpg


The globalists who control the US and Israel (source) created a coup in Kiev and have taken control of the country (source) to try and disrupt russian oil and gas supplies (source) which flow through ukraine into europe
The globalists have tried and are still trying to takeover syria to stop the flow of oil and gas controlled by russia and its ally iran (source)
So it is not russia being the aggressor. Russia is just trying to show it is not to be messed with
These countries are RIGHT ON RUSSIAS DOORSTEP
The idea behind these moves is to try and break the russian economy because oil and gas form a large part of her economy, so if the globalists can disrupt that they can weaken russia economically because russia is not allowing the NWO that the globalists want; the russians have a different vision for a new order
The equivalent would be for russia to invade canada and stop the flow of resources from there to the US because canada is geographically and culturally close to the US (just like ukraine is to russia)
So....how would the US feel if russia invaded canada?
Do you think the US would try and show that it was not to be messed with?
I laughed reading this. But I'll take you seriously. Could you give me sources where I add (source)?

Also you use the word invasion. Whereas the US never invaded Ukraine. Actually Russia might've done that, although that's debated. I just googled on your globalists and one article the globalists were trying to destory America with their puppet Obama (source). Are they different globalists than yours? Are they the same but are they trying to destroy both Russia and America?

Edit: Oh when I mention (source) I don't expect a necessarily credible source. Anything will do.

Edit2: I think I found your globalists.
The New World Order wiki link and the thus other relevant wiki link.
I'd gladly discuss the contents of the second link.
 
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Ive not heard anything about Russian exploits in the new here recently. Interesting. ..

They are trying to manage Putin so that he's not able to provoke the most hawkish elements of their national publics into demanding war.
 
 
I laughed reading this. But I'll take you seriously. Could you give me sources where I add (source)Also you use the word invasion. Whereas the US never invaded Ukraine. Actually Russia might've done that, although that's debated. I just googled on your globalists and one article the globalists were trying to destory America with their puppet Obama (source). Are they different globalists than yours? Are they the same but are they trying to destroy both Russia and America?

Edit: Oh when I mention (source) I don't expect a necessarily credible source. Anything will do.

Edit2: I think I found your globalists.
The New World Order wiki link and the thus other relevant wiki link.
I'd gladly discuss the contents of the second link.

So you had to google 'globalists' to know what i was talking about?

Ok i understand that you have only a basic grasp of whats going on so i'll try to keep to basics

I have sifted through large amounts of information but can't post it all here so i'll select a few pieces so that my post remains of a readable size and so a graspable overview can be seen

The globalists who control the US and Israel

To keep things simple lets speak about the globalists through the lens of one of their main forums the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

Back in the 1970's a senator called Larry McDonald warned the US of an internal plot to take over the US by a group of globalists who had a vision of a marxist world government that would be run by them. In order to achieve this they would need to destroy the soveriegnty of the US, destroy its constitution and likely disarm its populace

But before we hear larry speak i just want to draw your attention to an earlier coup attempt by the same globalist financial interests just to show that A. these people have been following this plan for generations and B. that such coup attempts are a historical reality

So a coup was attempted by the globalist bankers back in the early 1900's. They asked an experienced ex marine officer major-general smedley butler to lead a group of ex military men on a military coup in washington in order to physically takeover the government

But instead of doing this Butler blew the whsitle and told the world about the plan. His most famous line was: ''war is a racket''

Here's a segment from the documentary 'the corporation' discussing the coup attempt

[video=youtube;oMEI8bnbw1o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMEI8bnbw1o[/video]

Ok so lets fast forward a few decades and we get to the McCarthy trials where senator mcCarthy was trying to uncover what he called a 'communist plot' to takeover America (US) from the inside. The 'communists' he was speaking about are really the globalists of the CFR

After this we have president Kennedy who made a speech to the assembled press warning them of a 'monolithic conspiracy'; he was murdered soon after this speech which can be heard below

[video=youtube;FnkdfFAqsHA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA[/video]

Then lets fast forward again to the 1970's where we get to senator larry mcdonald warning the US public about a globalist (some call them 'communists' but really they are about centralised totalitarian control and they don't much care which -ism they use to achieve that) conspiracy centred around the rockefellers and the CFR

before you watch this clip know that after this larry mcdonald became the ONLY US senator to be killed in a cold war action when his commercial flight was shot down by it is said the soviets. Two of his political rivals were also supposed to be on the flight but they were diverted to other flights at the last minute.

Sorry...maybe one more clip before we hear larry. this next one is a very short one in which bush senior (president and head of the CIA) tells the world of a plan to build a 'new world order' that will be controlled by law:

[video=youtube;Rc7i0wCFf8g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g[/video]

Here is Larry speaking on TV about the new world order; please note that the CFR member on the left calls him 'crazy' and tries to dicredit him just as their supporters will do in online discussions even on this forum! The guy on the right is pat buchanan and pat seems a little skeptical about whats being said but at the same time he is curious so he asks questions and gives larry a chance to explain himself. Of course the CFR guy on the left keeps trying to cut him off and shut him down and disrupt his talk

Nowadays Buchanan has NO such doubts of the conspiracy and lets hear what he has to say about it NOW:

[video=youtube;yYtti8MzvBk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYtti8MzvBk[/video]

But in the 1970's he wasn't so sure so lets see him listening to Senator larry Mcdonald back in the 70's (please click on the link to watch as i can't post 5 videos in one post only 4!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BPhYEFGaGM
 
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created a coup in Kiev and have taken control of the country

This is the second thing you asked for a source for and i'll provide more information along with information regarding your other queries later but at the moment i have to do some work!
 
I fully agree with what Bush senior said.
Chaos as in Africa's civilian wars or with terrorists in the Middle-East is bad. Order and law created by all the members of the UN seems a lot better for the world.
Maybe I should join those globalists. Except the bad thing is that they're hiding in secrecy.
If they're anyhow educated they should know that a state or order isn't possible without opennness, freedom of speech and good press rights.
I'm all for a globalist state as long as they're open about everything.

You're saying that Kennedy was murdered by globalists?
Wiki on conspiracy theories:
According to the British Psychological Society, it is possible that certain basic human epistemic biases are projected onto the material under scrutiny. One study cited by the group found that humans apply a rule of thumb by which we expect a significant event to have a significant cause.[53] The study offered subjects four versions of events, in which a foreign president was (a) successfully assassinated, (b) wounded but survived, (c) survived with wounds but died of a heart attack at a later date, and (d) was unharmed. Subjects were significantly more likely to suspect conspiracy in the case of the major events—in which the president died—than in the other cases, despite all other evidence available to them being equal. Connected with apophenia, the genetic tendency of human beings to find patterns in coincidence, this allows the discovery of conspiracy in any significant event.

Pat Buchanan seems like a dumb patriot. I'm kinda allergic to American political rhetoric. It seems way too populistic and manipulative.
In my European country main stream politicians are bad at being very eloquent. People are generally skeptical about anything. Sober you could say. If I notice rhetoric tricks I'll assume you're a manipulative jerk and not vote for you.
For example I really liked the politician that before the previous elections said he wouldn't promise anything. Something like this: "Promises often cannot be uphold, that's the nature of politics, so I'll make no such promises." It's that I didn't agree with his ideals that I didn't vote for him, but I loved his honesty as politician.


So you had to google 'globalists' to know what i was talking about?

Ok i understand that you have only a basic grasp of whats going on so i'll try to keep to basics
If anything is listed as conspiracy theory I often leave it at that. I believe other people are smart enough and the media is open enough to show it when it's no longer just a theory.

Here is Larry speaking on TV about the new world order; please note that the CFR member on the left calls him 'crazy' and tries to dicredit him just as their supporters will do in online discussions even on this forum!
Would you then say that I'm a globalist and am deliberatily discrediting you? For example with my claim that it's a conspiracy theory? To be honest, that is a rather easy and weak claim to make, but equally weak is yours where you assume that most people that oppose your claim must be CFR members, globalists or their supporters. Both of these arguments make a reasonable discussion impossible, because all sources are easily discredited.
That's why I'm not into conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theorists will claim all your sources are part of the conspiracy and thus false. Assuming most information is false and only the information that supports my view is correct is something I'll never understand.

I've found in many parts of life that sometimes you just cannot know. With this girl there were a gazillion reasons why she liked me, but also a gazillion why she wouldn't be into me. I preferred the first theory, thus believed that she liked me. I was wrong. The point is that my personal bias influenced what signals I saw and remembered.

Being 100% convinced of anything, be it religion, evolution theory or any philosophical point of view, is something I'll never do. Conspiracy theories will never get anywhere close to something I'll consider.
 
Ah I still have not seen any of this about Russia in the news here in the US. Given that we are in the process of midterms I somehow think if there was anything like this really going on I would hear about it because it could be used as leverage for one party or the other
 
Ah I still have not seen any of this about Russia in the news here in the US. Given that we are in the process of midterms I somehow think if there was anything like this really going on I would hear about it because it could be used as leverage for one party or the other

As the article says the western media want to downplay this

There is a currency war going on at the moment; you won't hear about this in the mainstream mews but you will hear about it in the financial news

Jim Rickards the author of the book 'currency wars' and advisor to the pentagon speaks about the implications of this war in the clip below

There's lots the mainstream media won't tell you for example it won;t tell you about the new bank china has created or how china is liberalising her markets. there are MASSIVE changes afoot in the world that are going to shift the balance of power but the corporate medai do not want you to know about them

[video=youtube;Le73sWDlhz4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le73sWDlhz4[/video]
 
I fully agree with what Bush senior said.
Chaos as in Africa's civilian wars or with terrorists in the Middle-East is bad. Order and law created by all the members of the UN seems a lot better for the world.

That's not what he means though

Also you must understand that the turbulence you mention in africa and the middle east was CREATED by the globalists (eg through CIA destabilisation programmes)

The UN as a genuine world government is one thing but really the banking cabal and their allies want to use it as a front for their interests

Here's the thing about powerful people....they don;t want to share their power or wealth with you...in fact most of the time the reason they are rich and powerful is becuase they have taken those things from others and they want more of it

So powerful people want a powerful government to protect them from the disspossessed people; they want a strong state which they can control to use as an enforcer against the people

If these guys had some lovely plan for the world that would make the world a better place for all of us don't you think i woudl support it? That's not what they want; their vision is closer to the hunger games type world

Maybe I should join those globalists. Except the bad thing is that they're hiding in secrecy.

No they're not in secrecy; once you get some more understanding of all this you will get a better idea of who is part of their agenda and who isn't

If they're anyhow educated they should know that a state or order isn't possible without opennness, freedom of speech and good press rights.
I'm all for a globalist state as long as they're open about everything.

They have no incentive to do that...that is totally self defeating for them

They saw the mayhem of the 1900's and they saw the world was changing fast so they figured that the only way for them to continue to hold onto their power and privilege in a changing world was to create a new system that would be better able to keep the public under control; which is to say an orwellian big borther totalitarian police state

You're saying that Kennedy was murdered by globalists?
Wiki on conspiracy theories:

Yes

Kennedy made that warnign speech to the press and he passed an executive order allowing the treasury to make a silver backed currency that would bypass the international bankers federal reserves fiat paper currency

Pat Buchanan seems like a dumb patriot. I'm kinda allergic to American political rhetoric. It seems way too populistic and manipulative.

I used to thin like that but now i realise that what they are loyal to is their independance and freedoms and i can totally sympathise with that

Imagine the political spectrum to be like a father and a mother. A father would be the libertarian who let the child do whatever they want; the child has lots of adventures but sometimes falls and skins his knees; however the child learns a lot from its failures as well as it successes

When it skins its knees the child goes running to its mother to be comforted in her nice warm bosoms! The kother wraps the child up in a big warm, soft embrace and for ma while thats nice....but eventually the child wants to go and play and climb trees and balance on walls and do fun stuff

if the mother doesn't release the child it will suffocate and that is the style of leadership these guys want. This is why people talk about the 'nanny state' because it is an intrusive, inteferring and molly coddling state but what these guys want is like tat but FAR worse. They want a totalitarian system which s to say a system that has total control over every aspect of your life

Humans need to be able to run free and breathe....they need choice and free thinking and problem solving and challenge and adventure...without these things the human animal becomes a shadow of itself....these things are oxygen for our souls and worth fighting for

In my European country main stream politicians are bad at being very eloquent. People are generally skeptical about anything. Sober you could say. If I notice rhetoric tricks I'll assume you're a manipulative jerk and not vote for you.

Well the problem is with politics in europe now is that it is very rarely anchored in principle. I nstead of having string convictions that they will follow through with if people of similar convcitions vote for them, modern politicians are ammoral people who tell the public what they want to hear and then do whatever their corporate paymasters tell them to do regardless of whetehr or not it matches what the public wanted

These slippery shiester do public focus groups and polls to find out how the public feels about things so that they can then best prepare their lies for them

For example I really liked the politician that before the previous elections said he wouldn't promise anything. Something like this: "Promises often cannot be uphold, that's the nature of politics, so I'll make no such promises." It's that I didn't agree with his ideals that I didn't vote for him, but I loved his honesty as politician.

Well he has given up even trying to pretend anymore...he's probably bought and paid for by the big corporations as most of them are and he's not going to even pretend that he will represent the people

If anything is listed as conspiracy theory I often leave it at that. I believe other people are smart enough and the media is open enough to show it when it's no longer just a theory.

No the media is owned by the big corporations who use it to manage your perceptions....that's all it is....it is a way to control the flow of information to your mind in order to create a perception of reality in your mind

if you do not listen to voices outside the mainstream media then you will never know when they are telling you the truth

Watch the clip below from RT exposing the lies of the BBC for example the same footage used for different events!

[video=youtube;km5CJo9JkDI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km5CJo9JkDI[/video]

if the corproations want to hide something from you then they will call it a 'conspiracy theory' so that you don't bother looking into it and by doing that they keep you only seeing their narrative of events

The CIA created the term 'conspiracy theorist' to smear any members of the public who questioned the 'magic bullet' theory of the warren commission into kennedys death. The CIA through Operation Mockingbird infiltrated the mainstream media and used them spread the term 'conspiracy theorist'

Would you then say that I'm a globalist and am deliberatily discrediting you? For example with my claim that it's a conspiracy theory? To be honest, that is a rather easy and weak claim to make, but equally weak is yours where you assume that most people that oppose your claim must be CFR members, globalists or their supporters.

I don't make that claim...some people just aren't aware of this stuff yet; we all have to learn at some point!

Both of these arguments make a reasonable discussion impossible, because all sources are easily discredited.
That's why I'm not into conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theorists will claim all your sources are part of the conspiracy and thus false. Assuming most information is false and only the information that supports my view is correct is something I'll never understand.

Don't worry about it

All that matters is the information; don't be swayed by others. It doesn't matter what you think of the person you are discussing with or debating with all that matters is the information they are presenting

I've found in many parts of life that sometimes you just cannot know. With this girl there were a gazillion reasons why she liked me, but also a gazillion why she wouldn't be into me. I preferred the first theory, thus believed that she liked me. I was wrong. The point is that my personal bias influenced what signals I saw and remembered.

There is a lot of information out there if you know what you're looking for. When you have the information then you find that there are many things that you CAN know

Being 100% convinced of anything, be it religion, evolution theory or any philosophical point of view, is something I'll never do. Conspiracy theories will never get anywhere close to something I'll consider.

This is not a conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy fact

There is plenty of evidence out there and the conspirators even tell you their plans themselves

Once you are aware of this stuff and begin looking you will find seemingly unlimited amounts of evidence