Pro-life or Pro-choice? | Page 6 | INFJ Forum

Pro-life or Pro-choice?

The pill does not constitute as an abortion as it prevents the conception from ever occuring which results in a human life - well in the off chance that the egg is fertilized. Pretty easy science. That's not killing a human that has already been conceived.
The pill can change the wall of the uterus, preventing fertilized eggs from attaching to it, causing the fertilized egg to die.

Conception is a bit of a vague term. Some people use it to refer to fertilization, others to implantation. If to you conception equals fertilization, then yes, the pill equals abortion in this very specific case.

To me such matters are semantics, but I can imagine it matters more to you.
 
The pill can change the wall of the uterus, preventing fertilized eggs from attaching to it, causing the fertilized egg to die.

Conception is a bit of a vague term. Some people use it to refer to fertilization, others to implantation. If to you conception equals fertilization, then yes, the pill equals abortion in this very specific case.

To me such matters are semantics, but I can imagine it matters more to you.
Interesting. Just read about it, thank you. ❤ I don't take the pill, but I am glad I know this now. Thanks, M'lady. :)
 
The pill can change the wall of the uterus, preventing fertilized eggs from attaching to it, causing the fertilized egg to die.

Conception is a bit of a vague term. Some people use it to refer to fertilization, others to implantation. If to you conception equals fertilization, then yes, the pill equals abortion in this very specific case.

To me such matters are semantics, but I can imagine it matters more to you.
Its not what we think, its what the most religious members of the anti abortion cohort thinks.
 
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My oldest, bestest childhood friend was told by a few doctors that he'd not be able to have children. His girlfriend got pregnant and later it was determined the child would be severely handicapped. My friend was so excited to finally be having a child. His girlfriend didn't like that their child would be mentally handicapped so she suggested an abortion. My friend fought her and fought her on the issue. He begged her. He would've raised his miracle baby by himself if he had to. She aborted the pregnancy anyway. When my friend found out about the abortion, he blew his brains out...

I've had to think a bit before saying anything in reply Milky because this set me off thinking and feeling in several different ways. They are perhaps summed up by seeing that there is no such thing as a private abortion confined only to the mother and fetus. Even if only the mother is directly involved, there is more than the one potential child that is lost. Many of us given the gift of life grow up to have our own children and grandchildren and so on down the generations - for each aborted child all of these possible people are lost too in their hundreds and thousands as the generations roll on.

Thank God they don't all lead to such a tragedy as this - your friend's loss of his child, then his own life, and you losing a very close friend in such traumatic circumstances. My heart goes out to you, and everyone else involved in this. I include your friend's girlfriend too because she must have faced her own nightmares in this situation - the fearsome prospect of carrying a seriously handicapped child, and the trauma of termination, and its terrible consequences. Although I think abortion is wrong, it seems to me that most women who choose it are under great pressure, distress and uncertainty, and for them there can be lasting consequences as @Misty said. It would be easy to talk when I never can face this kind of choice directly myself. The whole issue is saturated with tragedy and calls out for the deepest compassion.
 
Many thanks Dado. It was a long time ago now for me - my sons are 35 and 40 now - but I still feel sad sometimes. Our experience is nothing compared with @Misty’s. I appreciate your views on abortion as well as Misty’s - I have the same perspective myself. Where I have sympathy with @acd is on how far it should be controlled through legislation. I don’t have a fully thought out view on that, but it seems obvious that the law should lie along the grain of popular consensus as a default. To make it otherwise will just lead to desperate people being pushed into the hands of illegal abortion rogues and put their health and lives at risk. A properly functioning democracy should be able to respond appropriately.

I agree with you. I also have sympathy and understanding for @acd and people who share same beliefs like her because I used to have same beliefs when I was younger, during my marxist/atheistic days. I was extremly pro-choice but my perspective and understanding changed as I was starting to take in the wisdom from various religions where before I would just refute all of it as being just fairy tales. After some time bigger picture started to form in my mind and my heart became more open and softer after which it became clear to me what beliefs that I held as being true were actually false. Society is evolving, laws and rules are being changed, everything is in contant flux all the time so todays state of our culture I see as just another step that needs to be made from which new understanding will emerge. After all, everything is in God's hands so I am not worried what future will bring :)
 
I agree with you. I also have sympathy and understanding for @acd and people who share same beliefs like her because I used to have same beliefs when I was younger, during my marxist/atheistic days. I was extremly pro-choice but my perspective and understanding changed as I was starting to take in the wisdom from various religions where before I would just refute all of it as being just fairy tales. After some time bigger picture started to form in my mind and my heart became more open and softer after which it became clear to me what beliefs that I held as being true were actually false. Society is evolving, laws and rules are being changed, everything is in contant flux all the time so todays state of our culture I see as just another step that needs to be made from which new understanding will emerge. After all, everything is in God's hands so I am not worried what future will bring :)
Yeah.. I read some excerpts of a book once written by an ex abortion clinic ( planned parenthood ) nurse. Chilling. I just couldn't continue. But I do believe when people get angry and riled up at the very mention of God.. it denotes something much deeper. A deep seated fear that he.. actually just might exist, and what that might mean after death.
 
Yeah.. I read some excerpts of a book once written by an ex abortion clinic ( planned parenthood ) nurse. Chilling. I couldn't continue. But I do believe when people get angry and riled up at the very mention of God.. it denotes something much deeper. A deep seated fear that he.. actually just might exist, and what that might mean after death.
I believe in God.
I just disagree with your interpretation.
 
I've had to think a bit before saying anything in reply Milky because this set me off thinking and feeling in several different ways. They are perhaps summed up by seeing that there is no such thing as a private abortion confined only to the mother and fetus. Even if only the mother is directly involved, there is more than the one potential child that is lost. Many of us given the gift of life grow up to have our own children and grandchildren and so on down the generations - for each aborted child all of these possible people are lost too in their hundreds and thousands as the generations roll on.

Thank God they don't all lead to such a tragedy as this - your friend's loss of his child, then his own life, and you losing a very close friend in such traumatic circumstances. My heart goes out to you, and everyone else involved in this. I include your friend's girlfriend too because she must have faced her own nightmares in this situation - the fearsome prospect of carrying a seriously handicapped child, and the trauma of termination, and its terrible consequences. Although I think abortion is wrong, it seems to me that most women who choose it are under great pressure, distress and uncertainty, and for them there can be lasting consequences as @Misty said. It would be easy to talk when I never can face this kind of choice directly myself. The whole issue is saturated with tragedy and calls out for the deepest compassion.

Thank you, John. I love your heart and mind. Yes, there is quite the web of tragedy in this particular situation, but also many others in general. Abortion is not a simple matter. While I am "pro-life," I'm also not necessarily "anti-abortion" either. There is a lot of grey area among each particular situation. The God I know is merciful and my job is to not judge so I don't. Well, unless someone just aborts so they can continue with whatever lifestyle they have. That's total crap and I will judge the shit out of anyone that does that. Time for bed! <3
 
I've had to think a bit before saying anything in reply Milky because this set me off thinking and feeling in several different ways. They are perhaps summed up by seeing that there is no such thing as a private abortion confined only to the mother and fetus. Even if only the mother is directly involved, there is more than the one potential child that is lost. Many of us given the gift of life grow up to have our own children and grandchildren and so on down the generations - for each aborted child all of these possible people are lost too in their hundreds and thousands as the generations roll on.

Thank God they don't all lead to such a tragedy as this - your friend's loss of his child, then his own life, and you losing a very close friend in such traumatic circumstances. My heart goes out to you, and everyone else involved in this. I include your friend's girlfriend too because she must have faced her own nightmares in this situation - the fearsome prospect of carrying a seriously handicapped child, and the trauma of termination, and its terrible consequences. Although I think abortion is wrong, it seems to me that most women who choose it are under great pressure, distress and uncertainty, and for them there can be lasting consequences as @Misty said. It would be easy to talk when I never can face this kind of choice directly myself. The whole issue is saturated with tragedy and calls out for the deepest compassion.

I also like what Buddha said about human life and how precious it is which gives us aditional reason to cherish our existence:
"At Sāvatthī. Then the Buddha, picking up a little bit of sand on his fingernail, addressed the bhikkhus: “What do you think, bhikkhus? Which is more: the little bit of sand on my fingernail, or this great Earth?”

Bhante, the great earth is far more. The little bit of sand on your fingernail is tiny. Compared to the great Earth, those cannot be compared or even imagined, it is not even a significant fraction.”

“In the same way, bhikkhus, the sentient beings reborn as humans are few as this little bit of sand on my fingernail, while those not reborn as humans are many as sand on this great Earth. Therefore, you should strive diligently and without delay to end this suffering in the rebirth process”
 
After all, everything is in God's hands so I am not worried what future will bring :)
I agree. In my more Ni moments I feel quite sure our descendents are destined to live all over our galaxy eventually :)