Pro-life or Pro-choice?

[Truth Eternity]

I agree 99.99% here. It would be 100%, but I am leaving a margin of error.

99% of us men believe women should keep all their reproductive rights. All we're saying is that without a reason such as rape, you dying if the baby's born, the baby living a very short life, it is morally wrong to get an abortion. We do not want any women's rights taken away for any reason, we just want to hopefuy instill in women who think it's okay to abort a child because she doesn't feel like taking birth control or having the dude use a condom that abortion as a result of their actions is not just wrong, but evil.

 

[Truth Eternity]

Sorry it didn't make sense to you. I was only pointing out that equivocating abortion at any stage with murder is a weak argument, arguments I hear all the time by Christians. Of course the fetus probably experiences emotion, and consciousness too. Yet, most woman aren't aborting at such a stage because of moral sensibilities. The earliest stages of a pregnancy can be terminated without fear that you are harming a person with feelings, thoughts, and emotions. They aren't developed enough and it is okay from a humanistic perspective. The only real objections to this view come from the religious and their arguments are based on beliefs in a soul, following their god's plan and word, etc. Many people don't share these beliefs and we don't want laws based on them; they are weak arguments.

I agree with you, except that it is morally okay. The child is alive at conception whether or not you want to hear that. Conception is a stage just as childhood and adulthood are. Lacking emotion or pain receptors doesn't make it okay to kill. If your mother lacked feelings, thoughts, and emotion, would it be okay to kill her just because you don't have to deal with her?
To add to that, the difference between your mother and your child is that you chose to have that child knowing well the risks of doing so. And you've also actively avoided the extremely easy and accessible ways to prevent pregnancy, yet still had sex.
Just like a murderer actively avoids his knowledge of the law to inact his murder, you've ignored all the ways to prevent pregnancy, yet still had sex and now want to kill the baby.
And as cheap and easily accessible condoms and broth control are, you have no excuse. I do believe they should be free and shipped to homes on a weekly basis, but that's something else to fight for.

 

[ThomasJ79]

I agree with you, except that it is morally okay. The child is alive at conception whether or not you want to hear that. Conception is a stage just as childhood and adulthood are. Lacking emotion or pain receptors doesn't make it okay to kill. If your mother lacked feelings, thoughts, and emotion, would it be okay to kill her just because you don't have to deal with her?
To add to that, the difference between your mother and your child is that you chose to have that child knowing well the risks of doing so. And you've also actively avoided the extremely easy and accessible ways to prevent pregnancy, yet still had sex.
Just like a murderer actively avoids his knowledge of the law to inact his murder, you've ignored all the ways to prevent pregnancy, yet still had sex and now want to kill the baby.
And as cheap and easily accessible condoms and broth control are, you have no excuse. I do believe they should be free and shipped to homes on a weekly basis, but that's something else to fight for.

I see and understand your perspective. Yes, I understand a zygote is alive, but so are the egg and millions of sperm. I'm not sure what your point is. Even though it is alive, it is not a child or baby yet. Yes, conception is a stage of development of what eventually becomes a child. It is still not a child.

Killing does not mean murder. We kill lots of things and don't call it murder or immoral. Murder would be the wrongful taking of another human life. You can take another human life if it is just. Economic reasons for abortion may feel unjust to you, but many people feel differently than you. It can be a mercy. The morning after pill and unrestricted abortion up to a certain stage is not immoral to me and many others. It is no where near the same as murdering a child. That is a false equivalency.

I feel it is okay to end the life of people who are terminally ill or are in a vegetative state. Mercy killing can be a compassionate thing to do. Many people don't feel that way. If my mom wasn't aware of anything and lacked thoughts, feelings, etc, she is not living a good quality life. It wouldn't be a human life. She doesn't want to live that life anyways. If it were legal, I would euthanize out of mercy and for her sense of dignity. It would be the right thing to do. She would want that.

 

[Gadsden Mountain Ranch]

If you believe this:



How can you also believe this?
Coming from a pro-choice perspective myself this one always makes me scratch my head, If you truly believe that the cluster of cells is a human being and that aborting it is murder; what exactly makes the clusters of cells created by rape and incest any less of an innocent baby in your opinion?

Cluster of cells? That meaningless cluster of cells? That's where every human that's ever lived comes from bud

Second, incest ain't a joke. Serious shit can happen as a result. The jokes about rednecks fucking their cousins is that, a joke. Incest is rare. I've seen it once in a town of 300

Rape? Putting myself in a woman's shoes, i sure as fuck wouldn't want to bear a rapists child. No idea who the father is. No way

 

[just me]

I think this is more than an easy question.

Addressing the mass amounts of women having abortions? Maybe a little easier. I once heard there was an exception to every rule. While not fully believing that, I do feel there should be exceptions and "in general".
I am against in general just because blah blah blah, while I understand difficult situations. The hard part of this is distinguishing between the two, as opposed to throwing it all together.

 

[wiredandwound]

So, the question says it all. Why you support one of the two and why? And what is solution according to you

Without any reservation, I have to say to the Biblical community (being relevant to the discussion), that nowhere in the Bible does GOD ever PREVENT someone from commiting a sin. GOD's perspective, has, and always will be CHOICE.

It was the choice "bestowed on the orchard thieves" - (Melville)
It was the choice to enter the Ark before the flood
It was the choice to instill a King to preside over the Israelites, and reject God - 1 Samuel 7
It was a choice to build a temple to the Lord, which HE demanded that they didn't
And so on...

IMHO it is not governments responsibility, and must stay out of these affairs.
Personal responsibility is your duty, even when it isn't your fault.

Sincerely, a well read Christian.

 

[Truth Eternity]

Without any reservation, I have to say to the Biblical community (being relevant to the discussion), that nowhere in the Bible does GOD ever PREVENT someone from commiting a sin. GOD's perspective, has, and always will be CHOICE.

It was the choice "bestowed on the orchard thieves" - (Melville)
It was the choice to enter the Ark before the flood
It was the choice to instill a King to preside over the Israelites, and reject God - 1 Samuel 7
It was a choice to build a temple to the Lord, which HE demanded that they didn't
And so on...

IMHO it is not governments responsibility, and must stay out of these affairs.
Personal responsibility is your duty, even when it isn't your fault.

Sincerely, a well read Christian.

And then, afterwards, since you did sin, you face the consequences. He believed you have the choice to do right or wrong, but that doesn't mean doing wrong is okay.
And that's where I stand -- a woman should always have the choice. All I'm saying is that, except for the aforementioned (like a thousand times) circumstances, it is wrong to have an abortion. I'm also no religious person, but I do know the things I know.

 

[wiredandwound]

He believed you have the choice to do right or wrong, but that doesn't mean doing wrong is okay.

Agreed.

There is a lot of misunderstanding commonly made on this point that you expressed so well.