Any accounting for the difference between those who are susceptible, and those who are immune to feelings of persecution?
(Anticipating a Freudian approach in terms of ego development).
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Persecution Complex
- Thread starter Flavus Aquila
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(Anticipating a Freudian approach in terms of ego development).
Straight up...YES.
There is a fine line between feeling like a victim and taking responsibility for polishing your sense of personal power and grounded faith in your sense of Self and who you are. (you & your meaning anyone not 'you' explicitly Lady Jet
)You are responsible for how you perceive what someone says to you NOT the content of their message nor it's context. The reverse is true also...you are responsible for WHAT you say not how the person receiving it takes the message.
Tell ya what I do (and I slip occasionally with an asshole attack and spout off from ego instead of my true self...I'm only human).
When another person devalues me (my feeling 'persecuted') I generally say "Thank you for stating your opinion and how you see me. I'm sorry you feel/think that way. I'll think about it for a bit. Have a beautiful day." At that time I walk away...either dismissing the conversation until later. Or dismissing the conversation and often the person, (ooph! Classic INFJ search for harmony or phuckin doorslam), and I move along. I will confess on occasion, when I take the time to reflect and see if the other persons view has any validity, I'll let it affect change in me as a tool for self growth (into a better human or bigger asshole--hard tell lol).
If it is a person who's company you value and you can't escape feeling persecuted there are ways to find common ground...otherwise why the phuck would you want a person like that to be in your life to begin with? And...when strangers do it--bang the door, not your head (or heart), and tell them to pissoff...you don't need that negativity anyhoo
It's fairly easy to step back and notice if a person is projecting their own prosecution garbage onto you that doesn't belong to anyone but themselves. The maturity or immaturity of their ego determines whether or not they deserve my response.
Knowing full well a virtual hug and saying my heart goes out to you does absolutely nothing to change your environment---did the above happen/happening to you??
Send me a PM-- on the grounds of Self incrimination should the stories get out--my suggestion to any one gone or going through physical, emotional, or verbal abuse is to get the fuck out and away from it. Them seat the process of rising above and beyond all the hateful words and events the other party inflicted on you! No thing or No one short of death can keep you down if you don't want to be down!
Rise up!
@Sandie33 : Thank you for your kind words.
While I have my struggles and risks (one of which is being LGBTQ+ in an Islamic country) ; mine is actually one of the better, more privileged ones. And I am coping better these days.
It's perhaps okay if people call me one of these weakwilled whiny oversensitive ego-- I accept the label. I -am- whiny.
(and I must add, as a disclaimer, that I am very familiar with these persecution complex. My mother has a very strong one.)
But others had it worse than me. Much, much worse.
And sometimes they cannot get away from it. A lot of times.
Again, we adapt.
But this is my point. I take umbrage of people fighting and struggling for their lives and sanity and happiness being lumped in together with me.
Which happens way too often than I'd like; whether in personal or societal scope.
While I have my struggles and risks (one of which is being LGBTQ+ in an Islamic country) ; mine is actually one of the better, more privileged ones. And I am coping better these days.
It's perhaps okay if people call me one of these weakwilled whiny oversensitive ego-- I accept the label. I -am- whiny.
(and I must add, as a disclaimer, that I am very familiar with these persecution complex. My mother has a very strong one.)
But others had it worse than me. Much, much worse.
And sometimes they cannot get away from it. A lot of times.
Again, we adapt.
But this is my point. I take umbrage of people fighting and struggling for their lives and sanity and happiness being lumped in together with me.
Which happens way too often than I'd like; whether in personal or societal scope.
@Sandie33 : Thank you for your kind words.
While I have my struggles and risks (one of which is being LGBTQ+ in an Islamic country) ; mine is actually one of the better, more privileged ones. And I am coping better these days.
It's perhaps okay if people call me one of these weakwilled whiny oversensitive ego-- I accept the label. I -am- whiny.
(and I must add, as a disclaimer, that I am very familiar with these persecution complex. My mother has a very strong one.)
But others had it worse than me. Much, much worse.
And sometimes they cannot get away from it. A lot of times.
Again, we adapt.
But this is my point. I take umbrage of people fighting and struggling for their lives and sanity and happiness being lumped in together with me.
Which happens way too often than I'd like; whether in personal or societal scope.
You are most welcome...and I think not that you are 'whiny' but belive rather you question 'What of me?'.
I sincerely extend my heart to you over the vastness of your place and mine. I am sorry you are living in a culture where your choice to love is shunned and often persecuted. Hopefully one day, 'alternative life style' will drift away into the accepted 'norm' in every local, or tensy crevice on this blue dirt ball called earth.
Please always take pride in who you are @Trifoilum, and in the ways you touch others in love. Stand tall...and when you feel oppressed...be a Riser ❤hugz and well wishes
All I can say is that I'm honestly glad you are able to live in that reality and I sincerely hope that neither you nor any of your loved ones ever gets victimized in general let alone by people in power.Straight up...YES.
There is a fine line between feeling like a victim and taking responsibility for polishing your sense of personal power and grounded faith in your sense of Self and who you are. (you & your meaning anyone not 'you' explicitly Lady Jet
You are responsible for how you perceive what someone says to you NOT the content of their message nor it's context. The reverse is true also...you are responsible for WHAT you say not how the person receiving it takes the message.
Tell ya what I do (and I slip occasionally with an asshole attack and spout off from ego instead of my true self...I'm only human).
When another person devalues me (my feeling 'persecuted') I generally say "Thank you for stating your opinion and how you see me. I'm sorry you feel/think that way. I'll think about it for a bit. Have a beautiful day." At that time I walk away...either dismissing the conversation until later. Or dismissing the conversation and often the person, (ooph! Classic INFJ search for harmony or phuckin doorslam), and I move along. I will confess on occasion, when I take the time to reflect and see if the other persons view has any validity, I'll let it affect change in me as a tool for self growth (into a better human or bigger asshole--hard tell lol).
If it is a person who's company you value and you can't escape feeling persecuted there are ways to find common ground...otherwise why the phuck would you want a person like that to be in your life to begin with? And...when strangers do it--bang the door, not your head (or heart), and tell them to pissoff...you don't need that negativity anyhoo
I will never forget the verbal abuse and downright cruel treatment of the police after my rape. I will never forget almost everyone in my community turning on me because he was a good old local boy with a poor sick mother...how could I do that to him? Thankfully I was able to move. Not everyone is as lucky as I am.
Without getting too psych about it because I don't remember a lot of psych, their egos are deploying defenses that are more a symptom of something rather than an explanation for anything concrete in the present, really. At least from what I understand/remember. It's like an arrow pointing them to a higher truth but distorting reality a bit to get them there, because they can't face it yet or haven't processed it yet. Hopefully they do before it becomes maladaptive or pathological.
In short, some people have self-awareness, notice this and find ways to cope before they turn maladaptive or being a perpetual persecuted victim sinks into their identity. I think the difference is those who have learned a healthy response to insult and hurt and recognize that they too also hurt others with and without intent, are aware of and have a healthy solid sense of self, are able to self-reflect and forgive. Every person slides from good into the bad sometimes. Since there is absolutely no navigating the world free of insult and hurt we must learn how to cope with it.
I do not think it's healthy to enable people to think it's good to stay in a place of perpetual victimhood their entire life keeping them from taking responsibility for their lives, letting their reality become distorted indefinitely, or letting victimhood or persecution sink into their identity. That is a dark hole very difficult to climb out and no place I think anyone ought to want anyone to be. However, it's not my job to tell them how long it should take to do the work to no longer be a victim.
So yeah, in no way do I want to take anything away from real abuse victims working through their pain and trauma. May you find the tools to rise above what life has given you, have peace and make the life of your dreams.
I do live in that reality Jet...because I chose a different outlook and forgiveness of things I did not ask for in this life. Nor will I take responsibility for the actions another has inflicted on me because of their own twisted functioning....and since you do not know me nor my backstories, I'll choose forgiveness here as well.
I am happy for you that you were able to escape into a new life. It is my hope you find forgiveness one day and those tragic scars find healing. Please don't let the weight of past baggage hold you down from flying high into your future. ❤
I know this comes from a place of love and good intentions. However, the reality of abuse is far more complex and rarely allows for people to just get the Fuck out. Often times it is physically safer to stay in an abusive situation than attempt to leave.
I mean look at my situation. I got out, I moved across the country and I'm still being terrorized and deniEd a divorce. if only it were easier.
I don't talk to hear myself chatter, and generally whatever I say comes from my heart laced with compassion and empathy and unfortunately first hand in your face knowledge of expierencing the event or something similar.
Everybody faces tragedy differently. For Some finding acceptance and peace of mind takes longer, for some it takes a lifetime, some never find it at all.
Let me clear up "forgiveness" for you stemming from my own definition ...forgiving does not mean forgetting.
Don't ever forget that the event happened. Instead accept that there is indeed evil and evil people in this world and their capacity for it grows. Learn the face of evil without paranoia. Accept what is theirs and your ability to move beyond and rise above it and them.
I don't like broadcasting all my shit in an open arena, I tend to come off criptique bc of trying to remain general...I've led a peer based rape survivors group four times in the past 15-years...volunteered...no reward other than assisting women and men to rise above and beyond the pain, suffering, shame, guilt, anger, hatred and a list of 'others' that can leave a body wishing they were dead. Because bruises, cuts, bulletholes, broken bones and bloodloss all heal...the internal scars take much, much longer. But we all have a right to life and are deserving of the best life we can make for ourselves.
Void of detail this too shall pass. No offense @Jet ...you are still so much in your own event I'm going to make it known I have best wishes that you find your own path to healing. And Darlin, only YOU can. When I engage with you I get a deep sense of foreboding and the more I type the deeper those redflags dig. Hugs to you, but I concede not in power but in word.
With an endnote of this---yes, I do live my life with love, hope and happiness but only because I chose to! I've stood up against more than one monster and lived to tell the tale of it with a smile on my face. Short of death no-thing nor no-body will succeed with wiping that smile from my lips for long...and I've danced with death more times than I'd cared for in this lifetime.
❤Have a blessed day.
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Thank you. It's sooooo awesome that you took the time to revisit psych studies. (I very rarely come into contact with people who have studied psych IRL, and whose thoughts I can pick, being a complete layman in the area).
It sounds as though there are unconscious habits going on in the background, influencing conscious habits.
The ingraining of habits (Re. ego), as you describe it seems to follow a reinforcement process: that the victimhood disposition enables rewarding functioning (either as a pursuit of the desirable, or an escape from the undesirable, relating to manipulating and coping respectively). (Excuse the interested speculating). There definitely seems to be two types of victims: the defensive, and the manipulator. For the sake of this thread, I'd prefer to focus on those whose habitual victimhood has arisen as a coping mechanism, to enable functioning in real oppressive situations.
What are your thoughts on the effects / causal influences between ego victim defense, and individual social development?
Adding to your words; I personally think part of our emotional development is realizing we don't need to demonize others to realize they are not good for us.
There's a significant mindset spreading everywhere that those who harmed us means they are evil and malicious. -This- is what a lot of people with persecution complex are thinking. This is also what a lot of people are doing by throwing the 'persecution complex' label to people who whined around.
The failure of Hanlon's razor.
People don't have to be bad to harm us ,
we don't have to demonize them to want distance,
and we're not bad people ourselves for placing distance and boundaries.
Sometimes good people hurt us, sometimes shit happens and the people who hurt us aren't that bad, and the other times those with malice can and will do their best to make us feel good.
And then sometimes people are just broken and scared.
I think we are conditioned to believe that people are always good (meaning : have our best interests) or at least neutral (meaning : leaves us alone); we tend to react badly to those who clashed with us; or those bringing us discomfort.
Labels, in this case, serves as virtue signalling-- "They are monsters and we are not!"
Which I think does a lot of people disservice-- even people like Trump, and all the various shooters.
This may come down to true differences in nature. I don't need to forgive to heal and move on. Ignoring offenses of others against me would be to admit defeat. It would cause their words to fester and become reality. I am a person of actions. It does not make either of our approaches wrong or right or better or worse, just different because people are all different.
Again I do not believe that being a victim is at all a bad thing to be part of a person's identity. It simply is, and you learn to live with it.
My life could be so much worse. I am very lucky. I do not believe I have a victim complex but maybe I do and just can't see it. If someone does have that complex I feel that they should be treated with compassion and that hey heir feelings respected.
There is nothing worse than being made to feel crazy or like an extremist because your past experience as and victim. To have everyone belittle your very real fears and emotions. I had the "validation" of my paranoia being real, but had it been nothing it would not have felt any different.
I feel like I'm being and an ass. That is not my intent. This is just andnnss topic that hits close to home and I'm enjoying talking about it in a new environment. I still don't have a feel for the board enough to know how to properly read comments. But it's good for me. So thank you all and sorry if I'm being insensitive.
stems from paranioa,possibly and probably because of childhood grooming i.e parents favouring one child over the other and the idea of having a "favorite" son and so they live under the perception that they're simply being given 2nd class opportunities etc.other reasons of course include a natural inclination of ego boosts and such and narcissism and stuff
also psychopaths can have this inclination because of feeling "misunderstood"
obviously it would have more of an inclination towards self aware psychopaths
@Jet I can't imagine and won't pretend I could know what it was like to go through what you did. My experiences can't compare. Yes, we should do right by each other, and stand up for those who can't. No one should have to face a anything like this alone. I admire your courage and honesty. Seems we've all had some kind of experience which had a lasting impact, and found different ways to help us deal. Social support is one of the most powerful tools we have to assist anyone surviving trauma from abuse. Understanding is also key. Victims should never have to stand alone, although they often do. We should pay more attention to how people are affected by social persecution.
I'll be a disappointing brain to pick in this area. It's been over a decade since I've studies this so I'm a layman.
I think you might have a better grasp of it than I do after reading this post!I think that a person with the victim in their subconscious will be victims their entire lives until sadly, they're just victimizing themselves. It can turn into masochism, terrorism, violence or just a lifetime of abusive situations, friendships and relationships. Your unconscious will lead you into victimizing situations even if you don't consciously want that for yourself. It will lead to further feelings of victimization when they repeatedly don't get what they think they ought to receive and won't get from the world in exchange for their pain. It can be incredibly destructive to people's lives and hinder their ability to flourish.
@Jet My posts aren't talking about you. You are still being victimized and your anger is protecting you. It is serving you a purpose right now. I do not and would not want to take that from you or invalidate your feelings in any way. xx You may change your feelings on this in 5-10 years too.