Persecution Complex | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

Persecution Complex

If this thread was about minority issues, then my post was way off :D
Not necessarily. Interpreting oneself to be in the minority certainly creates a sense of lacking the force of numbers in some people. Conversely, identifying oneself with a broader, more generic grouping may have a securing/safety effect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaze
It's like the topic thread, lack of specificity leads to everything being both on and off topic. It's a Schrodinger's post!!!!! :):

Well, while Schrodinger's cat is still in the box, connect with the OP question in a way that makes sense to you. Doesn't have to be specific.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jet
Interpreting oneself to be in the minority
Or you know...actually being the minority. When you find yourself to be the only one of your race or gender in a room ... you would have to be pretty stupid to not "interpret" that you were the minority.
 
How are you defining "personal jepordy" ... that may help me focus my input since you seem to be dissatisfied with my previous posts.
My only gripe, which is not an intense one, is that I'd rather have more exploration of the thread topic itself, than of how the thread topic could be redefined.
 
My only gripe, which is not an intense one, is that I'd rather have more exploration of the thread topic itself, than of how the thread topic could be redefined.
And I am telling you that I am unable to explore the topic with you if there is no dialogue. which would require input of other parties.

Lacking said input, I would say that the majority of the time when a person feels persecuted it is a valid feeling and those guilty of said persecution should take a moment of reflection to see if their behavior is at fault.

Unless a person is being persecuted for being a wretched human being, at which point they probably just have it coming.
 
Or you know...actually being the minority. When you find yourself to be the only one of your race or gender in a room ... you would have to be pretty stupid to not "interpret" that you were the minority.
It sounds very very cliche to note it, but some people's attention is drawn to what makes them unique/different/..isolated in a group, whereas some people's attention is drawn to the elements in a group by which everyone is the same/interchangeable/..united.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaze
It sounds very very cliche to note it, but some people's attention is drawn to what makes them unique/different/..isolated in a group, whereas some people's attention is drawn to the elements in a group by which everyone is the same/interchangeable/..united.
raw


You go to a work meeting as a woman with your peers, all of whom are men old enough to be your father and listen to joke about things like circle jerk or use curse words and then all pause awkwardly and stare at you and tell me not to feel othered...
 
  • Like
Reactions: jyrffw54
And I am telling you that I am unable to explore the topic with you if there is no dialogue. which would require input of other parties.

Lacking said input, I would say that the majority of the time when a person feels persecuted it is a valid feeling and those guilty of said persecution should take a moment of reflection to see if their behavior is at fault.

Unless a person is being persecuted for being a wretched human being, at which point they probably just have it coming.
I want to move beyond justifying feelings, as an unnecessary activity, nor to looking for blame (the subject of people's treatment of others is altogether a subject in itself). Rather, how is it that two people can experience vastly different perceived levels of persecution, everything else being equal?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaze
It sounds very very cliche to note it, but some people's attention is drawn to what makes them unique/different/..isolated in a group, whereas some people's attention is drawn to the elements in a group by which everyone is the same/interchangeable/..united.

So, you're saying persecution is a matter of perspective or perception? This would mean those who often feel persecuted may not realize this feeling is a reflection of how they view themselves in relation to others. Does this mean that if we don't focus as much on how we're being seen or treated differently or don't view ourselves as victims of some kind of belittling, prejudice, misunderstanding or maltreatment, that we wouldn't feel persecuted?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jet
Rather, how is it that two people can experience vastly different perceived levels of persecution, everything else being equal?
Unless said individuals are identical twins raised in the same environment then that is highly improbable (even for the twins it's improbable).

Perception is based on how we experience life and no two people have equal life experiences.
 
So, you're saying persecution is a matter of perspective or perception? This would mean those who often feel persecuted may not realize this feeling is a reflection of how they view themselves in relation to others. Does this mean that if we don't focus as much on how we're being seen or treated differently or don't view ourselves as victims of some kind of belittling, prejudice, misunderstanding or maltreatment, that we wouldn't feel persecuted?
Come on now Gist. Didn't you know that words only hold the power over us that we give them? :md:
 
I mean back when I lived in the good old south, being a new mother, taking my baby out into the world ... you know what most people would say to me? They would not compliment him, or ask his age, or ask if it was a boy or girl. The overwhelming majority would ask, "is he yours?" or even, "where did you get him?". I mean the nurse when he was first born told me there was no way she would have believed he was my baby if she hadn't just seen him pop out of me.

Yeah I was a hot hormonal mess, yeah my parents told me I was just being "too sensitive" but when literally every first comment from strangers was to call out that my child's otherness from me ... IDK, I don't think it was me...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaze
So, you're saying persecution is a matter of perspective or perception? This would mean those who often feel persecuted may not realize this feeling is a reflection of how they view themselves in relation to others. Does this mean that if we don't focus as much on how we're being seen or treated differently or don't view ourselves as victims of some kind of belittling, prejudice, misunderstanding or maltreatment, that we wouldn't feel persecuted?
Every experience has a subjective component, set in an objective setting. Without looking at the objective circumstances (the external factors), I think it might go deeper than how others may, or may not see one - and one's focused awareness of it: I think the degree of persecution one subjectively experiences may be significantly connected to how one sees oneself among others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaze
Every experience has a subjective component, set in an objective setting. Without looking at the objective circumstances (the external factors), I think it might go deeper than how others may, or may not see one - and one's focused awareness of it: I think the degree of persecution one subjectively experiences may be significantly connected to how one sees oneself among others.
How then would you explain the statistics of black women having the highest levels of self esteem while experiencing among some of the highest levels of persecution?

Shouldn't they have the lowest by your reasoning?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skarekrow
Come on now Gist. Didn't you know that words only hold the power over us that we give them? :md:

Yes, being persecuted is a reality. A reality can't be denied. But it can be rewritten. You can decide how to respond to something. You may not be able to control how others treat you, but you can decide to handle it in a manner that makes it easier for you to deal with it. I've been bullied, teased, mocked, dismissed, rejected, etc. based on personality issues, or perceived inadequacies, and possibly minority status. I've been seen as childish, fragile, weak, for not being able to handle the dismissive treatment people threw at me. I've been a source of amusement to people in a way that should have made me curl up in a ball and wilt away.

And of course, it hurt. Neither did I have people coming to my defense, but instead, I had people talking behind my back, which just made things worse. Extremely lonely experience. However, seeing myself as a victim (despite being the reality) never truly helped either. It just gave people more power over me because they saw how it affected me. I had a "poor me" attitude going on, where I wanted people to always feel sorry for me. I ended up taking advantage of it. And I wallowed. The response to this was, people saw me as weak, and incapable of handling myself. That did not help me feel stronger or better. Now, were people's opinions truly relevant in the end? No. Because those opinions were biased and self serving. People stink. They're mean, rude, spiteful, horrible, and douchey.

However, I also realized I can't control how people think of me. I can only control me. You can't control how people feel or think, just how you respond to it. That doesn't mean, the reality of discrimination or mistreatment doesn't exist, and just goes away because we are "positive" and have the "power". It just means you find a way to handle it that makes you able to survive it and keep going. That may mean, fighting back for yourself and others, which still requires no longer seeing yourself as merely a victim, but being an active advocate against abuse or discrimination. In this case, you are no longer a passive recipient of hurtful action who has no choice but to simply accept that something is happening to you. You actually have agency, and power of your own you can exercise. It's also about having a belief in yourself that you can survive.

A technique I've used is dissociating. Don't view yourself as they see you, but as a person sitting on the outside of a conversation like a therapist. Don't see it as them talking about you, but as them reflecting things about themselves. When you fight people on how they see things, they often end up seeing it as a reinforcement of their views. e.g. "See, I was right." Not that it's easy, but it helps.
 
Yes, being persecuted is a reality. A reality can't be denied. But it can be rewritten. You can decide how to respond to something. You may not be able to control how others treat you, but you can decide to handle it in a manner that makes it easier for you to deal with it. I've been bullied, teased, mocked, dismissed, rejected, etc. based on personality issues, or perceived inadequacies, and possibly minority status. I've been seen as childish, fragile, weak, for not being able to handle the dismissive treatment people threw at me. I've been a source of amusement to people in a way that should have made me curl up in a ball and wilt away.

And of course, it hurt. Neither did I have people coming to my defense, but instead, I had people talking behind my back, which just made things worse. Extremely lonely experience. However, seeing myself as a victim (despite being the reality) never truly helped either. It just gave people more power over me because they saw how it affected me. I had a "poor me" attitude going on, where I wanted people to always feel sorry for me. I ended up taking advantage of it. And I wallowed. The response to this was, people saw me as weak, and incapable of handling myself. That did not help me feel stronger or better. Now, were people's opinions truly relevant in the end? No. Because those opinions were biased and self serving. People stink. They're mean, rude, spiteful, horrible, and douchey.

However, I also realized I can't control how people think of me. I can only control me. You can't control how people feel or think, just how you respond to it. That doesn't mean, the reality of discrimination or mistreatment doesn't exist, and just goes away because we are "positive" and have the "power". It just means you find a way to handle it that makes you able to survive it and keep going. That may mean, fighting back for yourself and others, which still requires no longer seeing yourself as merely a victim, but being an active advocate against abuse or discrimination. In this case, you are no longer a passive recipient of hurtful action who has no choice but to simply accept that something is happening to you. You actually have agency, and power of your own you can exercise. It's also about having a belief in yourself that you can survive.

A technique I've used is dissociating. Don't view yourself as they see you, but as a person sitting on the outside of a conversation like a therapist. Don't see it as them talking about you, but as them reflecting things about themselves. When you fight people on how they see things, they often end up seeing it as a reinforcement of their views. e.g. "See, I was right." Not that it's easy, but it helps.
While I agree with what you are saying on one hand, my personal experience has lead me to a different conclusion. Yes, we have the ability to adjust how we feel, yes being a victim does not mean we have to "act like a victim" ... but imho, this puts the burden on the attacked. It is asking them to be even stronger in a difficult time of their life, when we should be supporting them.

If someone is being persecuted why should we hesitate to call out their persecutors?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skarekrow
How then would you explain the statistics of black women having the highest levels of self esteem while experiencing among some of the highest levels of persecution?

Shouldn't they have the lowest by your reasoning?
The measure of self esteem is very variable, but I think it is only loosely connected with the subjective experience of persecution. An individual could possibly identify themselves as utterly different from all others, and take enormous satisfaction and self-approval from it, yet at the same time feel entirely persecuted by every person on the planet.

I think contentment and serene security are probably a more connected measure of subjective experiences of freedom from persecution (irrespective of external factors).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaze
While I agree with what you are saying on one hand, my personal experience has lead me to a different conclusion. Yes, we have the ability to adjust how we feel, yes being a victim does not mean we have to "act like a victim" ... but imho, this puts the burden on the attacked. It is asking them to be even stronger in a difficult time of their life, when we should be supporting them.

If someone is being persecuted why should we hesitate to call out their persecutors?

Which is why I said this . . .

That may mean, fighting back for yourself and others, which still requires no longer seeing yourself as merely a victim, but being an active advocate against abuse or discrimination. In this case, you are no longer a passive recipient of hurtful action who has no choice but to simply accept that something is happening to you. You actually have agency, and power of your own you can exercise. It's also about having a belief in yourself that you can survive.
 
The measure of self esteem is very variable, but I think it is only loosely connected with the subjective experience of persecution. An individual could possibly identify themselves as utterly different from all others, and take enormous satisfaction and self-approval from it, yet at the same time feel entirely persecuted by every person on the planet.

I think contentment and serene security are probably a more connected measure of subjective experiences of freedom from persecution (irrespective of external factors).
Oh you know...they could actually be persecuted...

So in tHenry your idea is good and all, but I like to base my opinions on actual reality. But you have fun with your privileged version of reality, what a shame we can't all live there.
 
While I agree with what you are saying on one hand, my personal experience has lead me to a different conclusion. Yes, we have the ability to adjust how we feel, yes being a victim does not mean we have to "act like a victim" ... but imho, this puts the burden on the attacked. It is asking them to be even stronger in a difficult time of their life, when we should be supporting them.

If someone is being persecuted why should we hesitate to call out their persecutors?
*Psychology thread, not an ethics thread*