Persecution Complex | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Persecution Complex

Which is why I said this . . .
But what if a victim doesn't have that strength? Why should they constantly have to defend themselves? Why must their persecution be questioned rather than believed and action taken to change the offenders?

(I'm not saying you are suggesting this, and I'm not upset or anything, I'm just enjoying this discussion)
 
*Psychology thread, not an ethics thread*
What happened to wanting to just fully discuss the issue at hand? Are conversation's not allowed to organically evolve?

Once you post how it develops is out of your hands...sorry kiddo.
 
Oh you know...they could actually be persecuted...

So in tHenry your idea is good and all, but I like to base my opinions on actual reality. But you have fun with your privileged version of reality, what a shame we can't all live there.
Undoubtedly people are persecuted. This thread is about what is going on internally with people who have a persecution experience.

Sometimes what people experience has little apparent relation to what's going on externally. An actually persecuted person may be oblivious of it, and a non-persecuted person may have a full blown persecution complex.

(Unsolicited personal comments are not appropriate here).
 
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What happened to wanting to just fully discuss the issue at hand? Are conversation's not allowed to organically evolve?

Once you post how it develops is out of your hands...sorry kiddo.
If you want a different topic, start a thread on that topic.. I'll visit.
 
Undoubtedly people are persecuted. This thread is about what is going on internally with people who have a persecution experience.

Sometimes what people experience has little apparent relation to what's going on externally. An actually persecuted person may be oblivious of it, and a non-persecuted person may have a full blown persecution complex.

(Unsolicited personal comments are not appropriate here).
Unless you are that person how would you know if the person is actually being persecuted?

If I'm violating any of the forum rules I will gladly edit my posts. However, you can't solicit for personal anecdotes/opinions one moment and then not allow them the next. You are being rather inconsistent.
 
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If you want a different topic, start a thread on that topic.. I'll visit.
Why would I need a different thread about the same thing when this has naturally evolved in a way that I'm satisfied with and in a way that does not violate the ToS.

If you want a purely psychological standpoint: either a person has a complex and they are imagining it or they don't have a complex and they are not imagining it. What more would there be to discuss about that? And since such complexes are usually caused by chemical imbalances then I don't know what one could do to prevent that other than you know therapy and/or medication. However considering the fact that such things are rather rare then I think it's probably safe to assume that the majority of people who claim to be persecuted are indeed being persecuted.
 
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But what if a victim doesn't have that strength? Why should they constantly have to defend themselves? Why must their persecution be questioned rather than believed and action taken to change the offenders?

(I'm not saying you are suggesting this, and I'm not upset or anything, I'm just enjoying this discussion)

I am going to answer this but for myself alone. I don't expect others to feel the same. (Content removed)

I'm fiercely protective of others, and I will fight for someone else's right not to be hurt or abused, but I do not expect this for myself, because I have never received it. I will fight for others, and defend others, but I don't expect others to defend me. I've been left standing many times alone before.

So, I can't really sit and dwell on why someone didn't come help me. No, I just had to deal with it. I couldn't wait for someone to come rescue me. So, from the perspective of the "victim," whether or not I deserved to have someone speak up and stand up for me, if it wasn't going to happen, I'd still have to deal with it on my own. People's "support" is often inconsistent. One minute they are for you, and next minute when it counts, they leave you hanging. I don't have the ability to care anymore. No matter how many times, I got figuratively knocked down, I had to get back up and move on. No one was going to feel sad for me. So, to answer your question, I can't control the offender. I can speak out against them, but some offenders just find more reasons to do more harm, when someone responds or takes them on. Sometimes, if possible, it's better to avoid than take someone one. I'd rather spend my time fighting battles I can actually win.
 
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Why would I need a different thread about the same thing when this has naturally evolved in a way that I'm satisfied with and in a way that does not violate the ToS.

If you want a purely psychological standpoint: either a person has a complex and they are imagining it or they don't have a complex and they are not imagining it. What more would there be to discuss about that? And since such complexes are usually caused by chemical imbalances then I don't know what one could do to prevent that other than you know therapy and/or medication. However considering the fact that such things are rather rare then I think it's probably safe to assume that the majority of people who claim to be persecuted are indeed being persecuted.
I think it is a little more complicated than mere imagination, when it comes to the internal factors.

What more would there be to discuss? A whole lot more, without so much derailing.
 
However considering the fact that such things are rather rare then I think it's probably safe to assume that the majority of people who claim to be persecuted are indeed being persecuted.
10-15% of the population may have delusional thoughts that result in persecution complexes. The majority of reasons being physiological. I don't understand what you whish to discuss that could not be better found by reading the established research on the subject.

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/05/13/delusions-of-persecution-causes-symptoms-treatment/
 
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but I do not expect this for myself, because I have never received it.
Shouldn't we expect better for the world? Shouldn't we hold everyone to the same high standards we hold ourselves?

Maybe this is what separates me from the majority of posters on this board, but I expect society to change and improve. Will it be easy? Change never is. But until enough people are willing to hold society at large to a higher standard then we will all just have to face the hard shit alone.
 
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I am going to answer this but for myself alone. I don't expect others to feel the same. Here's an example. I was flogged as a child in front of a classroom. I wet myself, and was told by teacher to get a mop and wipe it up. Students and teacher alike watched me do this in front of the class, I was used as an example of the consequences of not behaving. Granted, I didn't do anything wrong except sit in different area of the school grounds when I came to school early in the morning. No one spoke up and said, "Miss, this is not right." We were kids. No one came to help.

I'm fiercely protective of others, and I will fight for someone else's right not to be hurt or abused, but I do not expect this for myself, because I have never received it. I will fight for others, and defend others, but I don't expect others to defend me. I've been left standing many times alone before because it was more fun to ditch me, than to support me, since I was the weird kid. I've had to deal with similar things throughout my life alone, and no one was there to pick me up. People saw things double standards being done with me, and sat silently. That's their right. Regardless, I still had to figure out a way to get over it, because no one was sympathetic and going to help me. Actually, most people thought I caused my own persecution because of it.

So, I can't really sit and dwell on why someone didn't come help me. No, I just had to deal with it. I couldn't wait for someone to come rescue me. So, from the perspective of the "victim," whether or not I deserved to have someone speak up and stand up for me, if it wasn't going to happen, I'd still have to deal with it on my own. People's "support" is often inconsistent. One minute they are for you, and next minute when it counts, they leave you hanging. I don't have the ability to care anymore. No matter how many times, I got figuratively knocked down, I had to get back up and move on. No one was going to feel sad for me. So, to answer your question, I can't control the offender. I can speak out against them, but some offenders just find more reasons to do more harm, when someone responds or takes them on. Sometimes, if possible, it's better to avoid than take someone one. I'd rather spend my time fighting battles I can actually win.
I don't know if you're comfortable with personal questions, but given this significant personal disclosure, I'll venture:

Do you have a sense of disconnection with your peers of that time? Were you one of many going through a similar situation, or were you alone? (Sometimes situations don't facilitate others sticking up for one, but that limitation somehow unites for some people).

Has your sense of your place among those past peers changed as you've gotten older?
 
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Sometimes, if possible, it's better to avoid than take someone one. I'd rather spend my time fighting battles I can actually win.
And I get this. I was raped and the people who should have been advocating for me were among some of the worst victim blamers. I tried to be strong and prosecute and was eventually harrassed so much that I dropped charges and moved. I didn't have the strength, and it was so wrong to have to even go through that. So I will do whatever I can to make sure no one ever has to go through what I did.
 
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

In labeling someone's behavior as a persecution complex; we essentially ascribe a few values to it:
  • An element of their behavior (whether intensity, frequency, reasons, or rationale) are irrational, socially unacceptable, or destructive
  • And their irrationality is deemed as psychologically unhealthy

In this way, I've always seen persecution complex as a two way road. Yes, someone has to act, react, and perceive things in a certain manner. But most importantly other people have to be disturbed by them to label it as persecution complex.

Because what you label as persecution complex,
others may see it as a having very valid reason to be angry at.
and others may see it as a very healthy coping reaction.

Especially when we're just doing armchair psychology about a particular tendency in a large group of people; who aren't likely to receive psychological examination about their behaviors.

when it's a very tenuous interpretation of things,

Tenuous ...by whose standard?

I mean, it is very easy to forget the fact that values and ethics and morals change. And then there's also the fact that the media used to be more homogenized in their values.
What used to be okay (rape jokes, sexual harassment, child workers and soldiers) are now less okay, and things that used to be not okay (bashing religions, polyamory, premarital sex, LGBTQ+ folks) are now more okay. That means more people changing values. A more diverse set of values.

Even in personal scope, things change-- Having a kid changes things. Trauma changes things. Having a parent dying changes things. Shock and suffering and surprise changes things. Falling in love changes things.
Part of the change -is- how you see the world. What used to be okay is now less okay and vice versa.

This all means that what used to be tenuous may be less so now.

Mind, that doesn't mean your perception is wrong. If their actions disturbed your sensibility, then they are. If they hurt you, then I understand and support you if you choose to do something about it. But that doesn't mean they are objectively in the wrong for acting / reacting as they did. And that doesn't mean they always have some intristic personality flaw that makes them an awful human.

Even those who are formally diagnosed with persecution complex (as part of schizophrenia, for instance) does not mean they are fundamentally broken.

while other people can be indifferent to personal swipes, etc.?
A casual reminder that silence does not mean approval.
And that there are strong people and there are numb people and sometimes they are mixed with each other.
Just because people ACT indifferent does not mean they are indifferent.
The way things were, many people repressed their voices. Many people think it is better to stay quiet and grit their teeth and hope the storm passes over. Many people were afraid of speaking out.

Again, this doesn't necessarily mean an admirable thing.

But I'm going to offer at least one answer;

In some levels it's more tiring and painful hearing an insult for the hundredth time than the first time.
 
QUOTE="Flavus Aquila, post: 944190, member: 862"]I don't know if you're comfortable with personal questions, but given this significant personal disclosure, I'll venture:

Do you have a sense of disconnection with your peers of that time? Were you one of many going through a similar situation, or were you alone? (Sometimes situations don't facilitate others sticking up for one, but that limitation somehow unites for some people).

Has your sense of your place among those past peers changed as you've gotten older?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I did. I was somewhat alone or one of a few who didn't quite fit. I should clarify that I had some issues as a child so that's why I don't subscribe to victim complex. I don't blame the world as much for my issues anymore. Instead, I blame myself. I think it's easier to simply accept that I wasn't as well adjusted, than to blame misguided kids or teens. I was also very devoutly religious as a child/young adult and so that had it's own issues. Didn't help that I was a tad bit self righteous, and rightly deserved some of the criticism I received. :D

It's just easier to say, they probably didn't know better, and forgive than to forever think of them as having persecuted me in the past. It's quite embarrassing to mention these things as examples of victimization or persecution, because automatically, I feel guilty, and makes me fear that I expect someone to feel sorry for me. This is not the case, anymore. I only share as an example of how our own experience and perspective can have an impact on how we view ourselves and how the world treats us.

Never did me any good to see myself as victim of any sort, because that's not how I was perceived. Those who didn't speak up, were probably doing so as a matter of self preservation. Didn't want to get in trouble themselves, which is understandable. My sense of place among my peers has always been tenuous. I don't connect with my age group in general because it was very much a me-generation and my sense of self was a little different from the norm especially for my age.

That sense of place has remain loose, but it's no longer a problem for me anymore because now that I'm late 30s, fitting in the way I would have wanted to then, is not important anymore. Yes, I desire connections but with people of similar values or interests. My experience has shown me that when people care about something, they're there, but otherwise, it's every person for themselves.

Anyway, as I explained to @Jet although I'm not sure this is being understood. I would never tell anyone not to fight for themselves or others, or defend themselves against persecution, or speak up. What I've been describing is a personal approach that's based on how an individual responded to persecution in their own situation. I will stand with someone, to defend their rights, and speak up for them. It's just that I don't expect it for myself. I think I've clarified this enough though.

So end story/ :)
 
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Anyway, as I explained to @Jet although I'm not sure this is being understood. I would never tell anyone not to fight for themselves or others, or defend themselves against persecution, or speak up. What I've been describing is a personal approach that's based on how an individual responded to persecution in their own situation. I will stand with someone, to defend their rights, and speak up for them. It's just that I don't expect it for myself. I think I've clarified this enough though.
I'm understanding. I have zero issues with what you feel and why you feel that way. I'm probably not being clear myself. I expect and even demand that people be better. Since my sphere of influence is small and I'm not about to butt into places I shouldn't be this means that I primarily act upon this with my children, my friends and their children, and my work environment.

It's quite embarrassing to mention these things as examples of victimization or persecution, because automatically, I feel guilty, and makes me fear that I expect someone to feel sorry for me.
You should not feel guilty. There is nothing wrong with being a victim. It does not make you less of a person. it is not shameful. It just is. This is why I try to be as open and forward with my rape, for which at times I feel lingering shame or guilt. Being a victim did not stop my life. it is not something dirty to hide. it is simply one more facet of my existence.

I forget where I was going with this, 3am Jet is a bit incoherent.

Basically, people need to do what's right. And a victim complex is not all that common from a statistical viewpoint, so we should give people the benefit of the doubt if they cry persecution.
 
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Oh boy! *smacks self in forehead with palm*
SOMEONE ELSES OPINION OF YOU IS NONE IF YOUR BUSINESS UNLESS YOU MAKE IT YOUR BUSINESS.
 
Oh boy! *smacks self in forehead with palm*
SOMEONE ELSES OPINION OF YOU IS NONE IF YOUR BUSINESS UNLESS YOU MAKE IT YOUR BUSINESS.
What if they make it your business? Like @Trifoilum said, in some cases an insult becomes more hurtful the more it is repeated. Silence often wrongfully implies acceptance. Should we just ignore people who voice their negative and incorrect opinions of us?
 
What's up with some people feeling persecuted, when it's a very tenuous interpretation of things, while other people can be indifferent to personal swipes, etc.?

I suppose some people must have a persecution complex. Did you even read the title of the thread?
 
Oh boy! *smacks self in forehead with palm*
SOMEONE ELSES OPINION OF YOU IS NONE IF YOUR BUSINESS UNLESS YOU MAKE IT YOUR BUSINESS.
It is technically, true. But:

1) Again; hearing it for the hundredth time makes things kind of heavy.

2) Words have power. It may not affect you-- but it may affect your reputation. It may affect the people around you. It may affect your work. It may affect your lifestyle.
We may choose not to make it our business-- but will everyone else do the same?
Of course; we can adapt. A lot of times, we must.
We can also dealt with those who heeded these toxic opinions of us instead of the truth (however ugly or beautiful), of course.
But then the problem becomes more than 'somebody else's opinion of you'.

3) And these are just that-- words and opinions. What happens when it's more than words? What happens when it's fists, blades, bullets, laws, fire?

This is why I said the above. A lot of times the label persecution complex is given liberally; as if processing and dealing and suffering from the aftermath of an abusive relationship is the same as having your vanilla latte turning out to be decaf omg woe is me the world hates me waah waah waaaaahhh
 
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