Perfection | INFJ Forum

Perfection

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Haunted Moon, Mar 21, 2010.

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  1. Haunted Moon

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    A basic grasping of 'perfection' ought to be inherit to you, thus I ask how it is feasible in any way imaginable that such a thing exists. I, as a young naive person, discovered long ago that it was ludicrous for such a concept to be a reality and assumed all would come to the same conclusion as I. Arrogance!

    The reasoning to my conclusion of the notion that Perfection is absurd was that, well of course everyone would determine perfection is something different for them... or would not even have a grasp of what is truly ideal to them as things change constantly, within and outside. Upon discussion with this person, however, I wondered how might perfection exist in the mind of a God and if God were perfect... what does it imply about God?

    Regardless, I spoke long ago with a Christian that had seemingly no problems with the acceptance of God's perfection.

    Thus, my question: For whom is perfection for and how might it exist? Must it be confined to a moment in time or does it only make it's presence known through a collective understanding our reality in whole?
     
  2. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    I think perfection is merely a word to describe a concept that, in the end, cannot be contained in a mere word....so I wouldn't get too hung up on that the word itself. Personally, I would think of perfection almost in terms of "connection." In this sense "God" would represent a connection to all things at the same instant. And by all, I mean ALL. I would also say that in this concept of connection is nested the concept of love...which is a form of connection, isn't it.

    However, my own limited experience with perfection would show that while it is not something we can necessarily possess....but we can be possessed by it, within it, participate in it and partner with it. Our native limitations preclude anything else. Rather than bemoan this, it should rather be a source of great joy, gratitude, humility, and respect for all who share in this gift, great and small.

    So, in approaching the perfect, what we see really is a removal of illusion, of seeing more clearly, of embracing within us "what does work" and moving away from "that which does not work." In this sense we are making room within us for the Perfect, although is is not something we will ever own. This is why those who are the closest to perfection are among the most humble. They have made sufficient space to simply see the situation with greater clarity.
     
    #2 randomsomeone, Mar 21, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2010
  3. OP
    Haunted Moon

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    Seems odd... how reality can consist of complete contradictions and distortions due to our subjective minds.

    Our mental constructs can completely contradict realty yet be deemed valid in this reality via the explanation of physical reactions in the mind to stimulus outside.
    Separate it, and it becomes an anomaly?

    One take on perfection is that it is the greatest. Nothing higher can be obtained or conceived of, nothing greater can exist. Greater implies there is some value to the concept and value implies a subjective existence, does it not? In this case, it is like a container which validates the claim to perfection in this context but is there something outside of this container? Is true perfection objectivity? How can one possessed by it and not have it corrupt perfection with limited understanding? It becomes a game of microcosm and macrocosm, does it not?
     
  4. randomsomeone

    randomsomeone Well-known member

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    Well, based on what I have seen it is less corrupted because we simply are not it!! We surely reflect poorly if at all....we merely relate to the Perfect. I'm not even sure we grasp it in the least....maybe a glimpse. That we can participate or resonate at all is marvelous in it's own right I think. "Complete Unity" or "Wholeness" or "Unalloyed Clarity" might be other ways to think of perfection.
     
  5. Jasmine85

    Jasmine85 Regular Poster

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    Perfection and completeness are two completely different things, but are often confused.

    Perfection is about not having error. Perfectionism is about noticing error.
    Completeness is about achieving all component parts of an objective. Completism is about noticing what is missing.

    Two concrete examples:

    A sticker book would be complete if all stickers had been collected.
    A sticker book would be perfect if the stickers you have had all been put in neatly, and in their correct places.


    A computer game is played to completion when you've progressed through all levels.
    A computer game is played perfectly if you are getting the highest possible score in each level, and not losing any lives.
     
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  6. just me

    just me GONE

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    I view perfection differently according to what it is describing. I have seen perfection, as many would admit to have seen perfection. Part of us can be perfect, but that does not mean we as a whole must be perfect. The carnal mind and the spiritual mind look at things differently, allowing us to think perfection in our minds while admitting to be imperfect in our bodies. I must say I have seen some most perfect bodies, too, without that perfect mindset.

    We also must consider if we are striving Godly perfection or carnal perfection.
    Godly perfection accepts human frailties and shortcomings through a sense of somewhat understanding one cannot truly be perfect without God. We admit this and seek to be more spiritually minded, seeking the things of the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. We strive for perfection. The New Testament speaks of the spirits of just men made perfect. They are thus made perfect through God. I do feel it may be speaking of those that have left us in the flesh and have moved on to a new life in the spirit, entering the eternal and leaving behind the temporal, but I could be wrong because we do see through a glass darkly while here on earth in this life.

    I really do not know of a perfect person without God in their life, as we all have flaws. One failure of perfection would then make us imperfect. If we seek perfection regarding a specific subject, it can be attained. In a moment? Life is but a moment. In a few seconds or minutes of time? Yes, and possibly even more with more practice or learning. Perfection of what we have performed perfectly all the time may not be possible, so maybe "for moments" it could be accepted more readily.

    Perfection could be viewed as a perfect bullseye at long range with a bullet that leaves a 3 millimeter hole in paper at that distance when fired at a square that is 3 millimeters across at its two longest measurements, leaving absolutely nothing left of the square. I would call that a moment.
    If one could do that every time one tried, it could then be viewed as a collective understanding of the subject as a whole. I do not feel we have the ability to understand our existence or reality in a perfect manner.

    I may want to change some of that later, but just stopped by for a brief visit and was taken with thought regarding this subject as good discussion kindling.
     
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  7. LadyINFJ

    LadyINFJ Community Member

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    A wise man once told me, that nothing is perfect in this world because everything is aiming to it but nothing has achieved it yet. The moment perfection is achieved somewhere in the universe, this is the beginning of the end of our world.
    It took me a while to understand what he meant. And to realize that I agree with him.
     
  8. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    My understanding of perfection:

    * Something so complete that litterally nothing can be added to it as an improvement/increase.

    * Something so stable and integrated that nothing can be taken from it so as to reduce it. (ie. it is unchangeable).
     
  9. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    that which than no greater can be conceived X10
     
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  10. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    Sounds like St Anselm
     
  11. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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    St. Anselm modified by St Taylor
     
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    #11 Barnabas, Mar 31, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  12. TinyBubbles

    TinyBubbles anarchist

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    maybe a bit of both; you hit the nail on the head when you implied perfection is relative. it's like defining good and bad, it's going to vary depending on who you ask (and how you ask, and when you ask, etc.). perfection is also kind of an infinite scale, you can always be more perfect, you know? if god is perfect, it can't be in a way that we mere mortals can imagine, since our ideas of perfection are limited to what we personally experience or what we can experience vicariously through others. so if we've never been able to experience "true" perfection, how would we know it exists?
     
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  13. Barnabas

    Barnabas Time Lord

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