Obama Administration Stops deporation of young undocumented immigrants

[Raccoon Love]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/15/politics/immigration/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The Obama administration has put an end to the deportation of young undocumented immigrants that meet certain requirements, such as being brought here before the age of 16, graduating school, and display of excellent conduct. Obama states that these kids are Americans at heart, and that they should be given a path to citizenship. They will be able to apply for temporary work permits and attend college.

What's your opinion on this? I personally think it was an excellent decision. These kids have no fault in being brought here at a young age, and a lot of them want to contribute to this country. They are hard-working, brilliant, and simply want an opportunity to make it in life and serve the country they love.

 

[SilverFire]

...and they're all guilty of violating the law. Every last one. If you love a country, you follow its rules. If you don't, you come here to take as many freebies as you can.

This is designed to flood the ballot boxes with illegal voters who will then usher in Obama. It's got to be the most transparent attempted hijacking of an election that I've ever seen, and that's counting the Secretary of State project, and ACORN. This action is treasonous and Obama should be impeached for it.

 

[Raccoon Love]

Violating a law that they weren't even aware they were breaking? How would you feel if suddenly you had to leave the country you grew up in, and go back to a culture you knew nothing about and had absolutely no opportunity in?

Obama is not trying to gain "illegal votes". Undocumented aliens can't vote, and if they can they wouldn't classify for this program as it is a serious violation of this law. It's just the right thing to do.

 

[acd]

Its interesting what things Obama suddenly has power over considering where his hands are tied else ware...
I can't stand him. Vermin Supreme 2012!

 

[manatee]

Well duh, obviously it was a politically motivated move, and the same will be true for everything he does during the rest of this term (if not everything he's ever done).

Still, it's in the right direction, but doesn't reach far enough.

 

[the]

I think we should stop accepting new immigrants.

 

[just me]

I don't like polls. Can't change my mind like Obama does. Have to run all new employees through Homeland Security's new website to work for the gov here. Can't hire them. I have issues with Obama, too. Think Obama should have to move his family and himself to Syria or Israel a few months. Maybe bring a few illegals with him.

 

[Saru Inc]

This is almost as disgusting a bill as NAFTA,


Lets go guys, vote in more democrats than bitch about unemployment. The Mexicans are going to get work visas and then you're going to be out of a job.



I can't tell you how much I hate this law.


Edit:

Btw, Obama is trying to halt Florida from removing all DEAD AMERICANS AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS from the voting rolls. Why? He says that's taking away the rights of american citizens.

You know, the dead ones, and the ones' who aren't

It's true, look it up. And yes Raccoon, they can, and they did vote. In droves in 2008 they voted like crazy. So did dead people. Voter fraud is so rampant its disgusting. And which administration is doing nothing about it? Oh yeah, Obama's.

Whooohoooo gotta love him

 

[Apone]

This is good from a moral standpoint, sure… but there's absolutely no guarantee that these people will vote democrat because they're 'grateful'.

The main reason that it's a good thing is because it puts a huge dent in the under-the-counter employers who profit by exploiting illegals (yes, even illegals who have lived in the US for most of their lives) for cheap labour, thereby driving companies who use only legal citizens out of business and actually lowering wages as well as preventing legal citizens from gaining employment opportunities.

If you've been paying attention, this has been one of Obama's goals from the getgo-- and while I don't think he's some sort of ideal leader, I do think that this is one way to take action on the wage gap.

I'd also be willing to bet that a Republican would have blamed the illegals themselves, restricting legal immigration and stirring up hate while taking no action to equalize wages and allowing 'small businesses' to continue to profit… and probably employing a few illegals as their own personal servants as well.

 

[Saru Inc]

This is good from a moral standpoint, sure… but there's absolutely no guarantee that these people will vote democrat because they're 'grateful'.

The main reason that it's a good thing is because it puts a huge dent in the under-the-counter employers who profit by exploiting illegals (yes, even illegals who have lived in the US for most of their lives) for cheap labour, thereby driving companies who use only legal citizens out of business and actually lowering wages as well as preventing legal citizens from gaining employment opportunities.

If you've been paying attention, this has been one of Obama's goals from the getgo-- and while I don't think he's some sort of ideal leader, I do think that this is one way to take action on the wage gap.

I'd also be willing to bet that a Republican would have blamed the illegals themselves, restricting legal immigration and stirring up hate while taking no action to equalize wages and allowing 'small businesses' to continue to profit… and probably employing a few illegals as their own personal servants as well.

You can be against illegal immigration, and not be "hating."

I am against illegal immigration because it is illegal. People like to say "undocumented" "Non citizen" I like to say illegal.

America was founded by immigrants, correct. However, those people either made a living, died trying, or went back to Europe after failing. They did not arrive, raise crime rates, complain about not having the same rights as those who got there and were being productive, and then expect to stay and be coddled.


I'm currently reading a book that debunks several myths about America today. One of them was immigration. The amount it would cost to build a border to span Canada AND Mexico would be something extremely high, like close to 1 billion for only 80% of the fence for Mexico. However, the U.S. Government spends over 3.4 Billion a YEAR giving aid to illegal aliens. So the 1 billion a year, tack on maybe 100 million a year for upkeep etc, is still saving us a LOT of money.

When you said "stirring up hate," that upset me because I have many mexican friends. However, some of my mexican friends are no longer friends of mine when they learned my views. My friend Fabiola said "we have a right to be here! It was our country first!" I realized why she thought that, but she's wrong. First off, illegal aliens aren't "her people" She's American, her father and mother are both Naturalized, legal, VERY hard working citizens. Second, we bought California and a bunch of other states, and also won a war. You don't "deserve" a right here anymore. (You meaning any person who feels like America is their home).


I'm so tired of (Keep in mine Apone, this isn't aimed specifically towards you, but the post reminded me of this..) people saying you're racist/xenophobic/ etc for wanting to keep your borders. (Mostly people in my home town, so really this is more of a vent than a slash against anyone here... right now) No I'm not, but history shows a nation with well defined borders prospers in many ways. And something like this Dream Act, just takes jobs away from hard working americans.


Absoultely, Racoon Love has a mini point, some of the Mexicans are here of no fault of their own, they were bhrought as Children, and even though illegal, America IS there home, Mexico is a foreign land. Some of them probably ARE very hard working and intelligent, I have no doubt. However, to make such a blanket law like this is such a mistake. Reagan tried it, and it didn't work. (Albeit yes he did amnesty and this isn't amnesty).


Its like, yes, this Law was brought to pass with good intentions, but its just going to create more problems. If this post comes across strongly don't take it that way, its unintended I'm in a rush and don't havwe time to proofread.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

I agree with [MENTION=3156]Saru Inc[/MENTION]

I'm also against anything that's illegal. Like illegal gay marriage, I'm against illegal gay marriage because it's illegal.

But seriously... I believe in free markets and if someone is willing to come here and sell their labor for cheap. Then I don't see anything wrong with it. Americans need to stop with all the entitlements IMO.

 

[mochi]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/15/politics/immigration/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The Obama administration has put an end to the deportation of young undocumented immigrants that meet certain requirements, such as being brought here before the age of 16, graduating school, and display of excellent conduct. Obama states that these kids are Americans at heart, and that they should be given a path to citizenship. They will be able to apply for temporary work permits and attend college.

What's your opinion on this? I personally think it was an excellent decision. These kids have no fault in being brought here at a young age, and a lot of them want to contribute to this country. They are hard-working, brilliant, and simply want an opportunity to make it in life and serve the country they love.

I think it was an excellent decision as well. These are children who were brought into this country through no real free will of their own and raised as Americans since very young. They have been here all of their lives. To deport them in another country would be just the same as dropping any other citizen born here in a completely foreign country. I've gone to school with many people like these, many of whom are very intelligent and contributing to society by becoming engineers and doctors. I think it's about time.

I am in strong support.

 

[Apone]

You can be against illegal immigration, and not be "hating."

I am against illegal immigration because it is illegal. People like to say "undocumented" "Non citizen" I like to say illegal.

It doesn't make sense to be against something just because it's illegal. Are you against sodomy then?

America was founded by immigrants, correct. However, those people either made a living, died trying, or went back to Europe after failing. They did not arrive, raise crime rates, complain about not having the same rights as those who got there and were being productive, and then expect to stay and be coddled.

So genocide isn't a crime? Intentionally spreading disease isn't a crime? Anyways, the legislation doesn't protect criminals... if they're found guilty of a something like drugs or murder, then they will be deported. And implying that all illegal immigrants are criminals is as racist as it gets... which is pretty amazing, considering you yourself are a minority.

And while we're on the subject, I was actually thinking about what giving illegals opportunities to get an education and a proper job might do to the crime stats... I mean, it's not like there are so many avenues open to illegals that they can currently afford to turn their backs on criminal enterprises-- but if you give them more opportunities for legal work and education, what do you think will happen to the crime rates?

Again, I can't think of too many rational reasons why this won't be a good thing.

When you said "stirring up hate," that upset me because I have many mexican friends. However, some of my mexican friends are no longer friends of mine when they learned my views. My friend Fabiola said "we have a right to be here! It was our country first!" I realized why she thought that, but she's wrong. First off, illegal aliens aren't "her people" She's American, her father and mother are both Naturalized, legal, VERY hard working citizens. Second, we bought California and a bunch of other states, and also won a war. You don't "deserve" a right here anymore. (You meaning any person who feels like America is their home).

I wasn't talking about you, specifically-- but I have noticed that a lot of racist arguments begin with 'I have a lot of _____ friends'. I don't really understand your friend's argument and I think it's also racist or maybe just stupid, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any other, fully valid arguments to support this decision.

I'm so tired of (Keep in mine Apone, this isn't aimed specifically towards you, but the post reminded me of this..) people saying you're racist/xenophobic/ etc for wanting to keep your borders. (Mostly people in my home town, so really this is more of a vent than a slash against anyone here... right now) No I'm not, but history shows a nation with well defined borders prospers in many ways. And something like this Dream Act, just takes jobs away from hard working americans.

I still don't understand how it's going to do that. I've already explained why I think that it will actually help employment... and to be honest, my guess is that these people, if they ever get to the point where they become citizens, will probably find their status as a 'normal' worker to be more of a detriment to their employment prospects... mostly because without the illegal status, they'll be more expensive and therefore they'll just be another minority trying to get a job in white society. Employers love exploiting their workers... and the less advantages and protections a worker has, the better it is for them.

I do think that minorities tend to have better support/social networks than the white majority, which is probably why they're so good at setting themselves up with dodgy employment opportunities in the first place, but at the same time whenever you legally throw a minority culture into the majority they tend to either integrate fully/nearly-completely (a lot of second generation Asians come to mind), face discrimination or both. I don't know how you could object to someone who is basically fully integrated doing absolutely everything right and then going on to get a job that they are qualified for.

Absoultely, Racoon Love has a mini point, some of the Mexicans are here of no fault of their own, they were bhrought as Children, and even though illegal, America IS there home, Mexico is a foreign land. Some of them probably ARE very hard working and intelligent, I have no doubt. However, to make such a blanket law like this is such a mistake. Reagan tried it, and it didn't work. (Albeit yes he did amnesty and this isn't amnesty).

Yes, it isn't amnesty. It's more like an opportunity to prove themselves valuable to society... and if they're successful, potentially get citizenship, or failing that, return to their own country possibly more educated and less likely to fall into a life of crime. Everybody wins.

Also, your objections to Obama's 'playing politics' are really confusing-- are you saying that Republicans (especially incumbents) don't play politics? Are you saying that social changes are despicable simply because of the timing?

 

[Lerxst]

First of all, I'm all for keeping the valuable, hard working immigrants here so don't have much to say about this proposal in those terms.

Digging ourselves in, battening down the hatches and fortifying our borders to stop the illegal immigration is like putting a butterfly bandage on a compound fracture spurting blood everywhere. There's a reason they come here. Find it, fix it and the problem will be solved.

Is the bureaucracy holding up the legal immigration process? Is language an issue? Are the demands too high? Do we require too much? Streamline the legal process for immigration, cut through the red tape and the political BS involved and then see what the results are.

The illegals I have known (and between living in Phoenix, very far south in Arizona and working in warehouses, I've met a whole damn lot of them!) want to avoid trouble and stay under the radar. They aren't abusing drugs, robbing stores and burglarizing houses like people always make the majority of them out to be. You put that label of "illegal" on someone and then everyone just assumes everything about them must be illegal.

Those same people I worked with would work 8 hours at their day job, get 1 hour off and go to an 8 hour night job and that doesn't include overtime for either job, which was frequent. Then they'd go home, collapse and roll out of bed right back into the factory the next morning. If anything, these are the people who should be signing the papers to become legal. Employers see this, know they can't complain and take advantage of them. Then they pull the rest of the system down with them.

It's a reverse bell curve. On either side you have "legal" workers at their jobs and right in the middle you have the illegal ones the employers take advantage of. They pull the wages/salaries, benefits, hours, and everything else down across the board. They can't unionize and in fact, they actually hurt any collective bargaining efforts in their industry since you need a majority consensus in order to start the unionizing process. Employers just need to throw a few illegal workers into the mix to negate any unionizing efforts.

Give them the right papers, make them legal, let them raise their standards and then the rest of us will also be able to improve our situations.

Or in Buddhist terms - everyone and everything is interconnected...

 

[Apone]

I agree-- Obama actually tried to punish the people who were hiring/exploiting illegal immigrants back in 2009, but somehow that didn't get as much attention as this... which is actually just an extension of that. It seems to me that this is just a more effective way of handling the problem-- the fact that the press/people are focusing on the human aspects of it as if it's some kind of victory for criminals, or as if it's not something that Obama has been trying to do since he was elected is just wrong.

I also don't get how win-win situations are somehow bad. So yeah, he gets re-elected and we get higher wages/better benefits... if that's your biggest problem with Obama then I'd say he's actually a pretty decent leader.

 

[Saru Inc]

It doesn't make sense to be against something just because it's illegal. Are you against sodomy then?

I didn't mean for such a literal interpretation - I'm against illegal immigration because there are immigrants who work very hard to become citizens the legal way.

So genocide isn't a crime? Intentionally spreading disease isn't a crime?

Oh dear Jesus if you're ranting about the "poor little Wamapoke" than I have no sympathy. We treated many of them well, they're not innocent, and it was not genocide. In fact, the lovely DEMOCRAT party was all for killing all those lovely little indians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act_of_1830

or shall I quote tedddy Roooooooosevelt? "I don't go so far as to think that the only good indians are dead indians, but I believe nine out of ten are -- and I shouldn't inquire too closely in the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average indian."

Yup. Gotta love those progressives, amiright obama?

Anyways, the legislation doesn't protect criminals... if they're found guilty of a something like drugs or murder, then they will be deported. And implying that all illegal immigrants are criminals is as racist as it gets... which is pretty amazing, considering you yourself are a minority.

dear sir, I do believe you're retarded.
Btw: if The cops suck at catching criminals with addresses, and SSN etc, you really think all these cats are going to be innocent?

And while we're on the subject, I was actually thinking about what giving illegals opportunities to get an education and a proper job might do to the crime stats... I mean, it's not like there are so many avenues open to illegals that they can currently afford to turn their backs on criminal enterprises-- but if you give them more opportunities for legal work and education, what do you think will happen to the crime rates?

Idk. Apparently I'm just a racist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man



Again, I can't think of too many rational reasons why this won't be a good thing.

Ok, so mr. what are the rational reasons you CAN think of that would make this not a good thing?



I wasn't talking about you, specifically-- but I have noticed that a lot of racist arguments begin with 'I have a lot of _____ friends'. I don't really understand your friend's argument and I think it's also racist or maybe just stupid, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any other, fully valid arguments to support this decision.

perhaps


I still don't understand how it's going to do that. I've already explained why I think that it will actually help employment... and to be honest, my guess is that these people, if they ever get to the point where they become citizens, will probably find their status as a 'normal' worker to be more of a detriment to their employment prospects... mostly because without the illegal status, they'll be more expensive and therefore they'll just be another minority trying to get a job in white society. Employers love exploiting their workers... and the less advantages and protections a worker has, the better it is for them.

I do think that minorities tend to have better support/social networks than the white majority, which is probably why they're so good at setting themselves up with dodgy employment opportunities in the first place, but at the same time whenever you legally throw a minority culture into the majority they tend to either integrate fully/nearly-completely (a lot of second generation Asians come to mind), face discrimination or both. I don't know how you could object to someone who is basically fully integrated doing absolutely everything right and then going on to get a job that they are qualified for.

i can't, i guess im just a racist.

Yes, it isn't amnesty. It's more like an opportunity to prove themselves valuable to society... and if they're successful, potentially get citizenship, or failing that, return to their own country possibly more educated and less likely to fall into a life of crime. Everybody wins.

Except for americans who don't have jobs.

Also, your objections to Obama's 'playing politics' are really confusing-- are you saying that Republicans (especially incumbents) don't play politics? Are you saying that social changes are despicable simply because of the timing?

I don't know. Are you saying its ok for me to be racist just because progressives are?

So ummmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Faye]

^ People who oppose this move.

Fear of immigrants has been a prevalent in this country for over 100 years. Immigrants have helped make our country great in the past, and I think it will continue to make it great. Also, people need to stop being racist.

 

[Saru Inc]

View attachment 13937

^ People who oppose this move.

Fear of immigrants has been a prevalent in this country for over 100 years. Immigrants have helped make our country great in the past, and I think it will continue to make it great. Also, people need to stop being racist.

Here Here!

Or we could just segregate them into seperate but equal places, after all, they'll be allowed to live in america, but won't affect whites blacks or asians?


the democratic party tires me.

 

[Faye]

Here Here!

Or we could just segregate them into seperate but equal places, after all, they'll be allowed to live in america, but won't affect whites blacks or asians?


the democratic party tires me.

So basically we'll give immigrants the US southwest?

On that note, are there actually any sizable number of people who support 'separate but equal' around?

 

[Saru Inc]

So basically we'll give immigrants the US southwest?

On that note, are there actually any sizable number of people who support 'separate but equal' around?

Sorry, I wasn't actually supporting that. I was mocking the democratic party, because they have such double standards, and they'd probably be the party to do that.