Not sure about my J

[aerosol]

How do I know I'm not an INFP instead of an INFJ?

Essentially everything I've read about INFJness describes me perfectly. But then I'll read something about INFP's and it'll be something that describes me as well. Or I'll read about some other personality; but the ones I agree with are always INxx. I understand that the personality types can be similiar in some ways, but I've been thinking lately if there is such a thing as an INFJP? Or some other kind of mash-up of personalities. That maybe you could be a little bit of both.

Just wondering. I'm new to this whole thing and how it works.

 

[Questingpoet]

You have discovered what many of us know. You are in the club now! You are an INF pj! We PJ's have weak J... they say INFJ's are the weakest of the J group so we are very similar to our INFP cousins. There are of course INFJ's who do not have weak J's as some of us do. I always test very balanced in J/P with the J winning out by a nose. They say we are organized in less obvious ways...like in our minds for instance.

My poetry is organized as I write it in an often times draconian manner. I will obsess over it until its perfect. My own personal space too is neat and organized. But I can be very loose with other things too. My car is full of random things and coffee cups. Welcome and bring your PJ's!

 

[Arsal]

INFJs use Ni-Fe-Ti-Se
INFPs use Fi-Ne-Si-Te

They use complete different set of functions. For one to be INFx, they would have to have conscious control over all 8 functions, which is not possible in MBTI/JCF model.

INFs are outwardly similar but they have completely different modi operandi.

INFJ's start with an idea/vision (Ni) and then look for its implementations in the world (Fe). This is what comes most naturally to them.
INFP's start with a universal moral framework (Fi) and then look for avenues where it is congruent (Ne) in the real world.

INFJs with a well-developed Ti use it to filter their idea/vision into a more logically coherent form, and Se to keep track of how and when to change it according to outside world.

INFPs with a well-developed Si use it to ground their moral framework into a concrete understanding relating to the real world, and use their Te more-or-less as a defense mechanism.

------------

As for INFJs who appear "P", this is because:

Ni, Si, Fe, Te are Directive functions (J)
Ne, Se, Fi, Ti are Adaptive functions (P)

Since INFJs have Ni-Fe-Ti-Se, whenever they use Ti and Se (adaptive), they will appear more P-like.
Likewise, when INFPs use Si and Te (directive), they will appear more J-like.

This is why the J/P dimension in MBTI is considered a flawed concept and why most typology forums have moved past MBTI into JCF/Socionics/Pod'Lair/what have you.

Hope this cleared somethings up.

 

[Questingpoet]

INFJs use Ni-Fe-Ti-Se
INFPs use Fi-Ne-Si-Te

They use complete different set of functions. For one to be INFx, they would have to have conscious control over all 8 functions, which is not possible in MBTI/JCF model.

INFs are outwardly similar but they have completely different modi operandi.

INFJ's start with an idea/vision (Ni) and then look for its implementations in the world (Fe). This is what comes most naturally to them.
INFP's start with a universal moral framework (Fi) and then look for avenues where it is congruent (Ne) in the real world.

INFJs with a well-developed Ti use it to filter their idea/vision into a more logically coherent form, and Se to keep track of how and when to change it according to outside world.

INFPs with a well-developed Si use it to ground their moral framework into a concrete understanding relating to the real world, and use their Te more-or-less as a defense mechanism.

------------

As for INFJs who appear "P", this is because:

Ni, Si, Fe, Te are Directive functions (J)
Ne, Se, Fi, Ti are Adaptive functions (P)

Since INFJs have Ni-Fe-Ti-Se, whenever they use Ti and Se (adaptive), they will appear more P-like.
Likewise, when INFPs use Si and Te (directive), they will appear more J-like.

This is why the J/P dimension in MBTI is considered a flawed concept and why most typology forums have moved past MBTI into JCF/Socionics/Pod'Lair/what have you.

Hope this cleared somethings up.

Well thought out...and full of Ti. A nice balance for my answer, and both have something to say that needs to be heard. INFJ/INFP are still closely related despite the function chart. A slight shift in situation is all it takes....

 

[Razare]

I like to think of INFP's and INFJ's as siblings, different but remarkably similar despite those differences.

Aerosol, I would suggest you study up on cognitive functions and pick one that you are 100% positive you have. The easiest tell between INFP and INFJ is identifying which thinking function you use; either extroverted thinking or introverted thinking. If you think you have both, pick the one that is stronger.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/extravertedthinking.html

If you have extroverted thinking, you're an INFP. If you have introverted thinking, you're an INFJ. Don't confuse introverted feeling as introverted thinking. Introverted feeling (Fi) is capable of deep thought, which a person might confuse as introverted thinking (Ti). The most substantial difference between the two is that Fi thinks using your personal value system and should be incapable of detaching from it.

INFP's would have an easier time sympathizing with someone, for example, but a much more difficult time seeing that person's point of view. They're more apt to project their own point of view on the person and assume that person has a similar situation as them. The INFJ can detach themselves from their own point of view and operate completely independent of their own value system if necessary. Furthermore, INFJ value systems must serve the group not their personal beliefs. INFP's must serve their value system even if that means opposing the group. In practice, they're likely to flee when their value system is opposed; rather than confront. Confrontation is possible; however, using extroverted thinking (Te).

An INFJ is more likely to just listen to the person and nod, accepting that the other person's viewpoint is totally different. We avoid confrontation because we do not require that our value system be realized in our environment. Simply getting along with people satisfies our extroverted feeling, and by not confronting or fleeing, we are getting along. This is why the INFJ keeps their thoughts reserved for those they are closest with.

Hope that helps, and Arsal's post is good too.

 

[Barnabas]

my Fe is very J, however my Ti is very p.

 

[GarmGarf]

Do you have any v-logs or anything of yourself posted on YouTube?

 

[88chaz88]

my Fe is very J, however my Ti is very p.

That's because Fe, Te, Si, and Ni are directive, whereas Fi, Ti, Se, and Ne are adaptive. As a J your first two functions are always directive, last two adaptive.

 

[Arsal]

Might as put this out there since it will come up sooner or later...

Directive and Adaptive are not the same as Judging and Perceiving functions.

Judging functions: Fi, Fe, Ti, Te
Perceiving functions: Si, Se, Ni, Ne

Which in turn, is not the same as Judging-Perceiving dimension in MBTI.

-----------------

Directive types, in essence, relate to organization. They like changing the object/subject to create organization.

Fe and Te create external organization, respectively with people and systems.

[Fe, for example, is not primarily concerned with the depth of relationships, but their organization, and to give people exactly as much as they need in order for them to remain close. Similarly, Te is primarily concerned with systematic organization of their external world to maximize efficiency. Everything they do, even their relationships, are concerned with maximizing efficiency in their lives.]
​

Ni and Si are concerned with internal organization of outside data. Both functions create worldviews that function as maps, or a template, to be applied to the external world.

Fe and Te are concerned with changing the object to create organization, whereas Ni and Si are concerned with changing the subject.

Adaptive types relate to study. They dislike changing the object, because if they inject their influence onto the object, the object no longer remains neutral and thus can no longer be studied. Therefore they must maintain passivity so they can study the object.

Ne and Se are functions we use to perceive and study the object/external world, while Fi and Ti are functions we use to compare the perceptions to our internal subjective ethical or logical model and make judgments.

Ne and Se are concerned with neutrality of perception, whereas Fi and Ti are concerned with authenticity of subjective thought.

-----------------

Every type has two directive and two adaptive functions. The top two functions for INFJs are directive, whereas the top two for INFPs are adaptive. This means that while INFJs are often directive and prefer changing the object to suit their vision, they are not always this way. Similarly, while INFPs may seem passive and dislike influencing the object, they are very able to do it.

Side-note: one of my biggest pet peeves with P's occurs when they dislike or disagree with something I do. Instead of letting me know about it, they shut off. This is classic P behavior, signifying their lack of interest in changing the object. As a IxxJ, I'm very open to change, and may willingly change myself to suit external needs. However, much to my frustration, they never do let me know and instead let it stew until it blows up. Their approach to relationships is: "if we are having problems, we should just end contact because we will always have problems" compared to J's "if we are having problems, at least one of us is doing something wrong and must change for the better of the relationship."

 

[Limit]

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=14424

Read that thread. It has helped a lot of people finally figure out the difference.

 

[Orion]

You have discovered what many of us know. You are in the club now! You are an INF pj! We PJ's have weak J... they say INFJ's are the weakest of the J group so we are very similar to our INFP cousins. There are of course INFJ's who do not have weak J's as some of us do. I always test very balanced in J/P with the J winning out by a nose. They say we are organized in less obvious ways...like in our minds for instance.

This is exactly what is wrong with most of these forums. You are spreading and perpetuating really, really untrue and false information. There is no such thing as "PJ's". You are setting the OP on a confused path that will get them frustrated and lessen their understanding of the difference between INFJs and INFPs.

There is no such thing as "weak J" or "weak P" and certainly no in between!

J has little to do was organization, at least, not in the way you described it.

My poetry is organized as I write it in an often times draconian manner. I will obsess over it until its perfect. My own personal space too is neat and organized. But I can be very loose with other things too. My car is full of random things and coffee cups. Welcome and bring your PJ's!

For the love of god, please stop talking about the MBTI or Jungian processes until you actually know anything about them.

my Fe is very J, however my Ti is very p.

Do you even read what you write? That makes no sense whatsoever.

That's because Fe, Te, Si, and Ni are directive, whereas Fi, Ti, Se, and Ne are adaptive. As a J your first two functions are always directive, last two adaptive.

I'm not sure how you are using the words "adaptive" and "directive" in this context. Can you describe what you mean?

 

[Limit]

This is exactly what is wrong with most of these forums. You are spreading and perpetuating really, really untrue and false information. There is no such thing as "PJ's". You are setting the OP on a confused path that will get them frustrated and lessen their understanding of the difference between INFJs and INFPs.

There is no such thing as "weak J" or "weak P" and certainly no in between!

J has little to do was organization, at least, not in the way you described it.



For the love of god, please stop talking about the MBTI or Jungian processes until you actually know anything about them.



Do you even read what you write? That makes no sense whatsoever.



I'm not sure how you are using the words "adaptive" and "directive" in this context. Can you describe what you mean?

HAHA, Nice. You share my frustration <3

 

[aerosol]

This is exactly what is wrong with most of these forums. You are spreading and perpetuating really, really untrue and false information. There is no such thing as "PJ's". You are setting the OP on a confused path that will get them frustrated and lessen their understanding of the difference between INFJs and INFPs.

There is no such thing as "weak J" or "weak P" and certainly no in between!

J has little to do was organization, at least, not in the way you described it.



For the love of god, please stop talking about the MBTI or Jungian processes until you actually know anything about them.



Do you even read what you write? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Oookay, I see frustration but I'd really appreciate a friendlier tone. Please keep that in mind for the future. A "hey, I don't find this to be true or based on any solid facts" would do it. No need to "attack" the person. That's what I see it as anyway, or maybe I'm just too sensitive. Don't worry about posts confusing me, I take everything in and then I decide what makes sense to me.

 

[Orion]

Oookay, I see frustration but I'd really appreciate a friendlier tone. Please keep that in mind for the future. A "hey, I don't find this to be true or based on any solid facts" would do it. No need to "attack" the person. That's what I see it as anyway, or maybe I'm just too sensitive. Don't worry about posts confusing me, I take everything in and then I decide what makes sense to me.

In a way, I see what was written as an attack on my values.

 

[aerosol]

Ni, Si, Fe, Te are Directive functions (J)
Ne, Se, Fi, Ti are Adaptive functions (P)

I don't know what these abbreviations stand for. :-O
Ni = Intuition?
Fe = feeling?
Se = sensing?
Ti = thinking?

 

[Wyote]

i/e - introverted/extroverted

S - Sensing
N - Intuition
T - Thinking
F - Feeling

 

[aerosol]

In a way, I see what was written as an attack on my values.

But there still is a need to keep it nice. That's what makes us different from other animals. I have issues with intended harm in situations where the other person had nothing but good intentions. You may disagree with what he posted, and you're free to share that. However, it's preferred to do so in a way that is more respectful.

 

[Arsal]

I don't know what these abbreviations stand for. :-O
Ni = Intuition?
Fe = feeling?
Se = sensing?
Ti = thinking?

Hmm perhaps, I should start from the beginning.

According to Jung, the psyche has four functions: Feeling, Thinking, Sensing and Intuition. Each of these functions has an attitude, either introverted or extroverted.

Introversion means extracting energy from the subject.
Extroversion means extracting energy from the object.

So,

Fi = Introverted Feeling (feeling relating to the subject)
Fe = Extroverted Feeling (feeling relating to the object)
Ti = Introverted Thinking (thinking relating to the subject)

and so on...

If you are not familiar with how these functions work, here is a great link:
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=6582

OR

http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Function_Attitude

It's a lot to absorb. Once you have, you may come back to my previous post. I sort of presumed you knew about functional attitudes.

:]

 

[aerosol]

INFP's would have an easier time sympathizing with someone, for example, but a much more difficult time seeing that person's point of view. They're more apt to project their own point of view on the person and assume that person has a similar situation as them. The INFJ can detach themselves from their own point of view and operate completely independent of their own value system if necessary. Furthermore, INFJ value systems must serve the group not their personal beliefs. INFP's must serve their value system even if that means opposing the group. In practice, they're likely to flee when their value system is opposed; rather than confront. Confrontation is possible; however, using extroverted thinking (Te).

An INFJ is more likely to just listen to the person and nod, accepting that the other person's viewpoint is totally different. We avoid confrontation because we do not require that our value system be realized in our environment. Simply getting along with people satisfies our extroverted feeling, and by not confronting or fleeing, we are getting along. This is why the INFJ keeps their thoughts reserved for those they are closest with.

Hope that helps, and Arsal's post is good too.

From this, I sound 100% like an INFJ and not like an INFP. I never really doubted it, but when I read other personality descriptions they seem to fit me pretty good as well.

 

[aerosol]

Do you have any v-logs or anything of yourself posted on YouTube?

I've been thinking about putting one up. I'll let you know. And thanks everybody for replying! I now have a lot of views and facts to think about and digest. I'm fairly sure I'm INFJ, though.