No More Authenticity?

[INFJok]

I have always had this feeling that ranged throughout the years: Where has authenticity gone?

During my childhood,late 90s early '00s, it was always a comfort in being a human that had empathy or sympathy. It was ok to be who you were or people embraced your differences, people hugged you when you cried, everybody wanted to connect to each other and change for the better if anything needed to be changed!

Now it's like since I have gotten older, people no longer care for that sort of thing. No one truly cares about no one's true well-being, including their own! People have gotten colder, meaner and grow more and more narcissistic, which is being applauded!
Motivation is driven by how physically attractive you look, how rich you are, and how famous or infamous you can get.

I don't know if it's because I'm entering my 20s and now I'm seeing how the real world is or how society has changed as a whole in general!

Remember the good 'ole days when you had support/respect for your fellow men, when your kids could play outside, where tv shows taught you actual life lessons, when music was better listened to by the quality of talented artists and real instruments and things were more authentic?


I would love to hear people's thoughts and opinions on this!

Please don't let me be the only one who has noticed this!

 

[Gaze]

I regret to say, you are right, and this is quite true. I do miss the 90s, it was a more vibrant and open era in many ways that today isn't. We still adhered to particular social values such as having a personal responsibility to consider others. Now, it's "I take care of me, you take care of you" kind of ethic or "I don't want to have to be saddled with anyone else's problems or issues". Sad, but true. People had more empathy then. Now, it's the thing to not care as much and not feel shame for it.

 

[nosferatu]

The narcissistic part, I noticed became more of an issue when internet became a bigger part of people's lives. Social media, cell phones, etc.

But the rest, sometimes I think at that point most people have too high expectations on what they want people to become. Work harder at your job, do xyz in school, start families. So I think a lot of people hold back warmth they would give to a younger person because now they have much higher standards on what they expect from others. It makes no sense to me really. Most times I see people suffering from panic attacks, there is something in life they feel they are doing that is not what they really want, yet others keep pushing them to achieve more out of that goal, ignoring the fact it isn't what the person wants, because they think if you keep at it you'll get instant gratification from life when you are done, like your dream job or something. Nine times out of ten that isn't the case anyways...It all takes time and even more hard work... -_-;

 

[Gaze]

The narcissistic part, I noticed became more of an issue when internet became a bigger part of people's lives. Social media, cell phones, etc.

But the rest, sometimes I think at that point most people have too high expectations on what they want people to become. Work harder at your job, do xyz in school, start families. So I think a lot of people hold back warmth they would give to a younger person because now they have much higher standards on what they expect from others. It makes no sense to me really. Most times I see people suffering from panic attacks, there is something in life they feel they are doing that is not what they really want, yet others keep pushing them to achieve more out of that goal, ignoring the fact it isn't what the person wants, because they think if you keep at it you'll get instant gratification from life when you are done, like your dream job or something. Nine times out of ten that isn't the case anyways...It all takes time and even more hard work... -_-;

Agree. I think it started with pushing or forced idealism, insisting that everyone can truly have whatever they want, when they want it which means immediately with little or less effort. Everything is expected to be "fast and easy" "quick and easy" "simple and fun". This encourages us to be simplistic in our understanding of how to get things we want, often ignoring how it actually works. The quality of things are less important than simply having them. Everything is or should be at our finger tips. Makes it easy to take other things for granted or to ignore the importance of other values. Focus on getting vs. giving.

 

[nosferatu]

Agree. I think it started with pushing or forced idealism, insisting that everyone can truly have whatever they want, when they want it immediately with less effort. Everything is expected to be "fast and easy" "quick and easy" "simple and fun". Those dichotomies teach us to be simplistic about understanding how to get things we want. The quality of things are less important than simply having them.

Exactly, like follow the path of the worker ant, but if one ant gets stepped on, do the others stop to help him up? What if he feels bad he cannot stand back up and knows people are judging him for being unable to walk with them? Or aim to build this giant ant hill, that is the goal, but what if that gets stepped on too? Living by goals alone isn't very healthy, and people need to be open to alternative options in case one goal goes sour.

 

[Scientia]

I agree. Things have gotten out of hand. Everyone seems narcissistic, especially with social media. It's all about them and few care whether they hurt someone's feelings. Also, where did this idea that "I deserve X" come from? Deserve?

 

[SpecialEdition]

I think it got sucked into the television when people started watching reality TV and TMZ.

 

[Erlian]

I notice something different. I notice that people change. People become grumpy and nostalgic. They claim that their youth was best. That people used to be nice and aren't anymore. I see more and more of them. Because I'm getting older and all my friends are getting older. This phenomenen probably already existed hunderds of years ago, I just notice it know as I and the people around me get older and grumpier.

I'm talking about all of you, people who posted in this thread.
In my world you are the pessimists. You create negativity.

I see pictures on the internet about partying and drinking youth. In the comments people are disgusted and they "lose hope for future generations". This sickens me. This generation isn't any different from other generations. Your own perception changes as you get older. You only notice the negative change and forget the positive one. Whenever I see one of these discussions come up I feel really disappointed. The people in the discussion are sad and negative about the present and nostalgic about the past. This is negativity in its purest form. Why not focus on the good things? Why do people always prefer to pick out the bad things? Why do YOU do this, person sitting behind their computer and reading this?

I feel struck, desilliusioned. I hold/held the posters above me in high regard. I didn't know they'd fall for this petty pessimism. I am disappointed and sad.
This is the thing that I notice. As people get older they get grumpier. As I grow up people around me get grumpier and grumpier about others.
Like all of the posters above me. It saddens and disgusts me.


Now, hey. I'm advocating against negativity and being quite negative. That's properly ironic
So I'll give you one example we didn't have 20 years ago. This forum. This community.
Everday again and again I am surprised how much love and support is spread on this forum.
There is so much positivity between all of you. Compliments are everywhere.
INFJs are truly wonderful people and I am grateful (as INTJ) to be part of this.

But it wonders me that when we talk about society people suddenly get negative.


Ooh oh interesting note!
I remember a research about happiness in my country. On average people gave their own life a bit more than an 8. But for society as a whole it was a 6. How does this work? We are all happy. We all have lovely friends. But someone if you add all these happy people together, it's worse?

People! It's in your own mind. Fight the negativity! See the positive! Rejoice! Embrace!
It is there. You only have to find it

 

[INFJ16]

I have always had this feeling that ranged throughout the years: Where has authenticity gone?

During my childhood,late 90s early '00s, it was always a comfort in being a human that had empathy or sympathy. It was ok to be who you were or people embraced your differences, people hugged you when you cried, everybody wanted to connect to each other and change for the better if anything needed to be changed!

Now it's like since I have gotten older, people no longer care for that sort of thing. No one truly cares about no one's true well-being, including their own! People have gotten colder, meaner and grow more and more narcissistic, which is being applauded!
Motivation is driven by how physically attractive you look, how rich you are, and how famous or infamous you can get.

I don't know if it's because I'm entering my 20s and now I'm seeing how the real world is or how society has changed as a whole in general!

Remember the good 'ole days when you had support/respect for your fellow men, when your kids could play outside, where tv shows taught you actual life lessons, when music was better listened to by the quality of talented artists and real instruments and things were more authentic?


I would love to hear people's thoughts and opinions on this!

Please don't let me be the only one who has noticed this!

I don't know. There is so much bad AND GOOD in the world. It depends what you focus on. If you focus on the negativity, you're only adding to it.

 

[Solongo]

You haven't noticed anything new. You are just aware of it now because people act stupid and can get away with it and it shows on social media. For the most part; people have always been insensitive and narcissistic.

The problem is that the people who do speak for common sense are dead, on the FBI list or just too chicken shit to stand up against the idiots that run society.

 

[Solongo]

I'm talking about all of you, people who posted in this thread.
In my world you are the pessimists. You create negativity.

So self righteous indignation and pointing fingers is ok? Are you aware that you are also posting on this thread?

 

[Eventhorizon]

I have always had this feeling that ranged throughout the years: Where has authenticity gone?

During my childhood,late 90s early '00s, it was always a comfort in being a human that had empathy or sympathy. It was ok to be who you were or people embraced your differences, people hugged you when you cried, everybody wanted to connect to each other and change for the better if anything needed to be changed!

Now it's like since I have gotten older, people no longer care for that sort of thing. No one truly cares about no one's true well-being, including their own! People have gotten colder, meaner and grow more and more narcissistic, which is being applauded!
Motivation is driven by how physically attractive you look, how rich you are, and how famous or infamous you can get.

I don't know if it's because I'm entering my 20s and now I'm seeing how the real world is or how society has changed as a whole in general!

Remember the good 'ole days when you had support/respect for your fellow men, when your kids could play outside, where tv shows taught you actual life lessons, when music was better listened to by the quality of talented artists and real instruments and things were more authentic?


I would love to hear people's thoughts and opinions on this!

Please don't let me be the only one who has noticed this!

Simply you are seeing the real world.
As a child people treat you differently because in part they do not see you as a threat. People love their animals because animals are not seen as something to be worried about. You dont have to worry about your dog taking your job or stealing your girlfriend.
People will like you more if they think you are like them or predictable. The minute they see you as someone who can take something from them they may respect you but they wont have the same type of feeling they once had.
This is life.
I spent a good portion of my younger years in the pursuit of fun. When I finally had to get serious and make a life for myself I started voicing my opinion. I did not like certain politics because of how much money was being taken away from my pay check...people should not have to die because of other people's ignorance... and people who disagree with those assessments see you as something different than they had.

Sorry, this is life. Just dont look back, its no use. Stand up for what you believe in and dont back down.

 

[Lark]

I think the more there are supposedly transparency technologies taking over life and the more privacy appears to be receding the more there will actually be false and phony personas in every single aspect of peoples lives.

 

[Erlian]

So self righteous indignation and pointing fingers is ok? Are you aware that you are also posting on this thread?

I should've specified it more. Posted as in past tense. The people that had posted in this thread before I did.

Pointing fingers makes it more provoking and confrontational. This causes the addressed to be shocked and remember it properly. It's a rhetoric technic I often use if I feel strongly about something, this is in contrast to my younger years when I severely lacked any expression of my opinion. I have changed and for the better. I don't want these lovely people to stay pessimistic about society. The provocations have the downside of potentially starting conflict. I'm willing to take that risk.

I'm not familiar with the term self-righteous indignation as non-native speaker. I googled a bit, but only got a vague idea now.
Concerning the self-righteous. I don't believe in an absolute righteousness. Everything righteous is from the self.
Following the difference with self-righteous indignation vs righteous indignation from Buck's Theological Dictionary http://www.city-data.com/forum/relationships/866900-self-righteous-indignation.html
I'm quite confident of being righteous and not self-righteous. If you think my indignation was trivial, outrageous or excessive, you're allowed to think so and I look forward to seeing your arguments so we can discuss it and gain a better understanding of each other's view. The same counts if you have a different view on what is righteous, please enlighten me and allow me to see other perspectives but my own.

 

[INFJok]

Simply you are seeing the real world.
As a child people treat you differently because in part they do not see you as a threat. People love their animals because animals are not seen as something to be worried about. You dont have to worry about your dog taking your job or stealing your girlfriend.
People will like you more if they think you are like them or predictable. The minute they see you as someone who can take something from them they may respect you but they wont have the same type of feeling they once had.
This is life.
I spent a good portion of my younger years in the pursuit of fun. When I finally had to get serious and make a life for myself I started voicing my opinion. I did not like certain politics because of how much money was being taken away from my pay check...people should not have to die because of other people's ignorance... and people who disagree with those assessments see you as something different than they had.

Sorry, this is life. Just dont look back, its no use. Stand up for what you believe in and don't back down.

Maybe if people stopped trying to Keep up with the Jones' and had confidence in themselves as they are, then maybe they wouldn't feel so scared of anybody taking anything away!

I'll take that last piece of advice with a side of lemon, sir! (English accent)

 

[INFJok]

I notice something different. I notice that people change. People become grumpy and nostalgic. They claim that their youth was best. That people used to be nice and aren't. I see more and more of them. Because I'm getting older and all my friends are getting older. This phenomenen probably already existed hunderds of years ago, I just notice it know as I and the people around me get older and grumpier.

I'm talking about all of you, people who posted in this thread.
In my world you are the pessimists. You create negativity.

I see pictures on the internet about partying and drinking youth. In the comments people are disgusted and they "loose hope for future generations". This sickens me. This generation isn't any different from other generations. Your own perception changes as you get older. You only notice the negative change and forget the positive one. Whenever I see one of these discussions come up I feel really disappointment. The people in the discussion are sad and negative about today and nostalgic about the past. This is negativity in its purest form. Why not focus on the good things? Why do people always prefer to pick out the bad things? Why do YOU do this, person sitting behind their computer and reading this?

I feel struck, desilliusioned. I hold/held the posters above me in high regard. I didn't know they'd fall for this petty pessimism. I am disappointed and sad.
This is the thing that I notice. As people get older they get grumpier. As I grow up people around me get grumpier and grumpier about others.
Like all of the posters above me. It saddens and disgusts me.


Now, hey. I'm advocating against negativity and being quite negative. That's properly ironic
So I'll give you one example we didn't have 20 years ago. This forum. This community.
Everday again and again I am surprised how much love and support is spread on this forum.
There is so much positivity between all of you. Compliments are everywhere.
INFJs are truly wonderful people and I am grateful (as INTJ) to be part of this.

But it wonders me that when we talk about society people suddenly get negative.


Ooh oh interesting note!
I remember a research about happiness in my country. On average people gave their own life a bit more than an 8. But for society as a whole it was a 6. How does this work? We are all happy. We all have lovely friends. But someone if you add all these happy people together, it's worse?

People! It's in your own mind. Fight the negativity! See the positive! Rejoice! Embrace!
It is there. You only have to find it

So if I see things as they are (reality) then I'm just being negative? That's how NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) starts out. It's like "awww, this is my daydream and it applies to real liiiiiife," then when someone else comes by, who can snap out of fantasy land and says," I get that, but XYZ is still happening, it exists and there's no way to daydream our way out of this one!" then that person is negative

Hmm?

 

[Erlian]

So if I see things as they are (reality) then I'm just being negative? That's how NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) starts out. It's like "awww, this is my daydream and it applies to real liiiiiife," then when someone else comes by, who can snap out of fantasy land and says," I get that, but XYZ is still happening, it exists and there's no way to daydream our way out of this one!" then that person is negative

Hmm?

There are a lot of bad things in reality. We shouldn't ignore them. And actually that's a fair point you make and one that I missed in my earlier comment.
If I then may change my argument slightly. I'm against focusing only on the negative. I prefer if you focus on both!
You were judging reality as a whole. And you only adressed the negative points. I think you forgot the good ones. I then argued for focusing on the good ones.
You are correct in saying the negative points aren't to be forgotten. Say the compromise is where we acknowledge both?

Furthermore I disagree with most of your negative points. Let me dissect.

I have always had this feeling that ranged throughout the years: Where has authenticity gone?

During my childhood,late 90s early '00s, it was always a comfort in being a human that had empathy or sympathy. It was ok to be who you were or people embraced your differences, people hugged you when you cried, everybody wanted to connect to each other and change for the better if anything needed to be changed!

Now it's like since I have gotten older, people no longer care for that sort of thing. No one truly cares about no one's true well-being, including their own! People have gotten colder, meaner and grow more and more narcissistic, which is being applauded!

I cannot disprove this, because it's a feeling you have. I do not have the same feeling at all.

Motivation is driven by how physically attractive you look, how rich you are, and how famous or infamous you can get.

Physically attractive, money and fame have played major roles in all times of society. Just think back on the Ancient Romans.
Edit: Actually if I think about it, nowadays, we care a lot more about content and skill than we did 100 years ago.

Remember the good 'ole days when you had support/respect for your fellow men, when your kids could play outside, where tv shows taught you actual life lessons, when music was better listened to by the quality of talented artists and real instruments and things were more authentic?

Support and respect are getting better and better. 50 years ago we were way back on equality for women, minorities, homosexuals. This support and respect has only increased the last years. Especially in the US. Children can play outside. Most neighbourhoods are safer. Crime rates keep going down. We feel unsafer though, but that's because of mass media. It feels more dangerous, but actually it is less dangerous. We're just more aware of the worst cases due mass media.
Myth busters is still going and pretty cool. A few years ago we had the BBC show Planet Earth which was really awesome. We have a lot of good educational programs on the public channels in my country. Also there is so much more educational stuff available on the internet. You can choose whatever you want to watch! Check Vsauce or RSIAnimate on Youtube, they have some incredibly fun and educational stuff.
I love music nowadays. Especially since unknown artists can easily spread their music on youtube for example without being slaves to big corporations. Every artist can start their own blog. The people that are really good become famous by their own efforts. It's still easier to become famous if you're rich, but nowadays it's a lot easier for the regular artist to climb the ladder. In the past that was completely impossible without a lot of money. There is so much more different music available too now. You can choose whatever you want to listen.
I don't care much about real instruments in judging musical quality. I care about what I hear. Whether someone made it with a computer or not I don't really care. But if that's important to you, go ahead! There's so much awesome music nowadays. Try Jeremy Soule or Hans Zimmer.

You don't have to follow the popular stuff from Kanye or Minaj. I personally don't like their music, but the majority seems to like that. If you don't like how some celebrity behave, don't forget what Beck did at the grammy's. There is so many nice people out there.

And yes, there's also wars in Syria and Ukraine. And 30 years ago we had a Cold War. And 30 years ago there was incredibly beautiful music.

My point: It hasn't changed for better or worse. It's just different.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I agree with [MENTION=4115]Lark[/MENTION]. People are very rarely themselves in public life and more of life is becoming public.

 

[nosferatu]

Regardless of life being life, I don't see why people should get shafted of support just because this is how the world supposedly is. We are human beings and all of us have different emotional needs and support.

 

[INFJok]

There are a lot of bad things in reality. We shouldn't ignore them. And actually that's a fair point you make and one that I missed in my earlier comment.
If I then may change my argument slightly. I'm against focusing only on the negative. I prefer if you focus on both!
You were judging reality as a whole. And you only adressed the negative points. I think you forgot the good ones. I then argued for focusing on the good ones.
You are correct in saying the negative points aren't to be forgotten. Say the compromise is where we acknowledge both?

Furthermore I disagree with most of your negative points. Let me dissect.



I cannot disprove this, because it's a feeling you have. I do not have the same feeling at all.



Physically attractive, money and fame have played major roles in all times of society. Just think back on the Ancient Romans.
Edit: Actually if I think about it, nowadays, we care a lot more about content and skill than we did 100 years ago.


Support and respect are getting better and better. 50 years ago we were way back on equality for women, minorities, homosexuals. This support and respect has only increased the last years. Especially in the US. Children can play outside. Most neighbourhoods are safer. Crime rates keep going down. We feel unsafer though, but that's because of mass media. It feels more dangerous, but actually it is less dangerous. We're just more aware of the worst cases due mass media.
Myth busters is still going and pretty cool. A few years ago we had the BBC show Planet Earth which was really awesome. We have a lot of good educational programs on the public channels in my country. Also there is so much more educational stuff available on the internet. You can choose whatever you want to watch! Check Vsauce or RSIAnimate on Youtube, they have some incredibly fun and educational stuff.
I love music nowadays. Especially since unknown artists can easily spread their music on youtube for example without being slaves to big corporations. Every artist can start their own blog. The people that are really good become famous by their own efforts. It's still easier to become famous if you're rich, but nowadays it's a lot easier for the regular artist to climb the ladder. In the past that was completely impossible without a lot of money. There is so much more different music available too now. You can choose whatever you want to listen.
I don't care much about real instruments in judging musical quality. I care about what I hear. Whether someone made it with a computer or not I don't really care. But if that's important to you, go ahead! There's so much awesome music nowadays. Try Jeremy Soule or Hans Zimmer.

You don't have to follow the popular stuff from Kanye or Minaj. I personally don't like their music, but the majority seems to like that. If you don't like how some celebrity behave, don't forget what Beck did at the grammy's. There is so many nice people out there.

And yes, there's also wars in Syria and Ukraine. And 30 years ago we had a Cold War. And 30 years ago there was incredibly beautiful music.

My point: It hasn't changed for better or worse. It's just different.

Ok, I get it now.