Ne-users

[Phoenix Down]

So, Ne does have motivation. I think because I find it entertaining. Or maybe I don't... Maybe I'm just a robot that does whatever, but if I say it like that... Who isn't a robot? Exactly. Everyone's a robot.

Not in the ethical sense I intended to communicate with that word choice.

I was trying to be eloquent... although it seems at the cost of clarity. My apologies.

However, I should agree that Joy at least in my experience does come with comprehension and understanding.

 

[Oranguh]

Not in the ethical sense I intended to communicate with that word choice.

I was trying to be eloquent... although it seems at the cost of clarity. My apologies.

However, I should agree that Joy at least in my experience does come with comprehension and understanding.

That's true, not in the conventional ethical sense. perhaps we should advocate hedonism as a valid "ethical" mentality.

this thread is quite funny


EDIT: But! What I actually wanted to ask was....

O.k. look, this is the "motivation/joy" for Ne Dominants. So entp/enfp. BUT, do Fi/Ti doms get the same gratification? Wouldn't they feel more "fulfilled" when their dominant functions are utilized outwardly? Do INFP's get a great sense of "joy" when their Fi has done... stuff?

 

[Morgain]

I mean, to me... Truth is highly relative. Everyone's interpretation of the world is good in their own little way.
One of the "reasons" I came to this conclusion was the endless possibilities of the assimilation of values. By that I mean.... I was born in Japan, my mother is Christian I was taught this and that, I have gained these and those values. BUT if my situation were to be different my values would have also been different. The scenarios to my life are the determining factor for my identity but the possible scenarios are endless, therefore all is relative.

My values are therefore also a lot more "flexible" than that of an Fi dom infp. Because values are not my main "focus", it's merely a tool.

I think... Maaaybe, I think I might be wrong but yea, mbti is ambiguous~ so yea yay for that

interesting. I agree with your claim that "truth is highly relative" to a certain point. I'm interested in what others claim to be the truth and I'm humble enough to realize that "the truth" can never be known. But besides that I have a sense of truth, a path, a knowing that helps me to make judgements. I think the first part is Ne seeking options but Fi will make the decision based on what it feels to be true. Does that make sense?

and I really like to talk to you, you sound different than most of the members in a way. Much more like me. I feel like I can jump thoughts with you just for the fun of it without having to explain how I go from one point to the other. something like that

edit: I get joy when what I do is in line with what is important to me. When I like what i do AND it benefits others, or when I like what I do and it helps to strengthen my intuition, ...


as for the learning.
just like oranguh I can't learn facts just for facts. There is a reason why I studied science since science has a theory. If I know the way I can solve a problem I can solve a thousand similar problems. But don't ask me to learn 5 words out of my head because I can't. I need a system, something that combines those words into a pattern so I can learn the pattern and reconstruct the words

when I have to learn to use a new device like a TV I hate reading the manual. I start exploring it myself unless I get stuck. Then I grap the manual and search through it to find the solution. Only when I can't find the solution I'll start reading the manual from the beginning (very reluctantly)

only when I learn something at work I write it down step by step in order to repeat it without mistakes since the instruments I use there cost to much money to play with :becky: I think then I'm more Si then Ne in the way I learn

 

[Phoenix Down]

You explain it then~~~ !!! GeeZ, anyways, I'm trying to be vague here on purpose. Stop pressuring me to be definite! I could be wrong (and nothing is really definite anyways)!
+
If you're vague you can never be wrong, you're only annoying.

I'm not asking you to be definite. Only to examine your thoughts more thoroughly. Flesh them out a little better. There are reasons for why and how you think, you've simply yet to recognize them. persistence is key. Keep asking yourself questions.

You need not yet judge whether or not they are true. However, It is impossible for people to gain insight without proper data.

 

[Gaze]

as for the learning.
just like oranguh I can't learn facts just for facts. There is a reason why I studied science since science has a theory. If I know the way I can solve a problem I can solve a thousand similar problems. But don't ask me to learn 5 words out of my head because I can't. I need a system, something that combines those words into a pattern so I can learn the pattern and reconstruct the words

when I have to learn to use a new device like a TV I hate reading the manual. I start exploring it myself unless I get stuck. Then I grap the manual and search through it to find the solution. Only when I can't find the solution I'll start reading the manual from the beginning (very reluctantly)

only when I learn something at work I write it down step by step in order to repeat it without mistakes since the instruments I use there cost to much money to play with :becky: I think then I'm more Si then Ne in the way I learn

+1 i need for things to make sense. There needs to be an underlying theme or reason to learn the material.

 

[Oranguh]

I'm not asking you to be definite. Only to examine your thoughts more thoroughly. Flesh them out a little better. There are reasons for why and how you think, you've simply yet to recognize them. persistence is key. Keep asking yourself questions.

You need not yet judge whether or not they are true. However, It is impossible for people to gain insight without proper data.

I feel so used and amused. (lol rhyme, yea amused carries negative connotation towards others so I don't like using it, but poetic justice!)

That's true, I agree with you so much~~~ But nyoooo don't get angry at me for throwing raw, stinky, unpolished ideas on the table (secretly I admit, I should think about things more.... Maybe I'm too impulsive)

interesting. I agree with your claim that "truth is highly relative" to a certain point. I'm interested in what others claim to be the truth and I'm humble enough to realize that "the truth" can never be known. But besides that I have a sense of truth, a path, a knowing that helps me to make judgements. I think the first part is Ne seeking options but Fi will make the decision based on what it feels to be true. Does that make sense?

and I really like to talk to you, you sound different than most of the members in a way. Much more like me. I feel like I can jump thoughts with you just for the fun of it without having to explain how I go from one point to the other. something like that

as for the learning.
just like oranguh I can't learn facts just for facts. There is a reason why I studied science since science has a theory. If I know the way I can solve a problem I can solve a thousand similar problems. But don't ask me to learn 5 words out of my head because I can't. I need a system, something that combines those words into a pattern so I can learn the pattern and reconstruct the words

when I have to learn to use a new device like a TV I hate reading the manual. I start exploring it myself unless I get stuck. Then I grap the manual and search through it to find the solution. Only when I can't find the solution I'll start reading the manual from the beginning (very reluctantly)

only when I learn something at work I write it down step by step in order to repeat it without mistakes since the instruments I use there cost to much money to play with :becky: I think then I'm more Si then Ne in the way I learn

Ooooh~ But to what extent.... I'm reaally enthralled by the differences between infp's and enfp's.... Let's use today to better understand the differences.

okay, how about this question.

Would you pretend to have different values just for the sake of knowing how other people would react towards you? ( of course afterwords you tell them you're just kidding, haha, haa?)

And oooh yea, stupid manuals... I have this habit of asking other people to read the manual/textbook for me and then having them "explain" what's inside it. Usually they get angry at me, buuut it's worth a try, right?
+
Yea, I think I would write down the instructions for those things as well, I mean, I'm not going to "understand" all the underlying theories of how things work. I have no clue how a computer works exactly~ So, thank the Gods for Si (amirite?). It just works because it works!

Mmmmmm~~ ask me a question about something an infp would do but an enfp wouldn't of vica versa.

 

[Norton]

My Ne identifies and solves problems with intuitive leaps.

My Ti, tells my Ne it's full of it (most of the time). Sometimes, Ne hits a home run and I file a patent application.

 

[Morgain]

Ooooh~ But to what extent.... I'm reaally enthralled by the differences between infp's and enfp's.... Let's use today to better understand the differences.

okay, how about this question.

Would you pretend to have different values just for the sake of knowing how other people would react towards you? ( of course afterwords you tell them you're just kidding, haha, haa?)
P

when someone is a ferm believer in something I take the opposite viewpoint just to play the devils advocate and somehow prove that all theories are relative. I think there is truth in most theories/values. I consider all different values and weight them against my inner value system. I talk what feels true to me and toss the rest.

Mmmmmm~~ ask me a question about something an infp would do but an enfp wouldn't of vica versa. :

would you do things just for the sake of experience and fun even though you know that it is not a very nice thing to do? How much does your value system influences your actions?

Yea, I think I would write down the instructions for those things as well, I mean, I'm not going to "understand" all the underlying theories of how things work. I have no clue how a computer works exactly~ So, thank the Gods for Si (amirite?). It just works because it works!

yes that is it!!!!! I only write down instructions when I DON'T SEE THE UNDERLYING PATTERN. When I eventually know my way around the instrument I don't need the written instructions anymore because I know the possibilities and the problems of the instrument.

 

[Oranguh]

would you do things just for the sake of experience and fun even though you know that it is not a very nice thing to do? How much does your value system influences your actions?

mmmmmmm so difficult...

Okay, look, see. I have to you know, find out. So, I will usually resort to manipulation of the situation where I will avoid breaking any of my intrinsic values. (No, I don't see manipulation/deception as breaking values. Truth is SO relative). This usually leads to very interesting scenarios and creative solutions. (But I have to admit.... many times it doesn't really work but whatever, improvise and spread your chances out [self fulfilling prophecies! + I HAVE accomplished things people would consider impossible, but nothing is impossible for Ne, probably])

Anyways, the concept of "values" implies, to me, "Guiding concepts to one's actions". So I mean, yea, generally I don't break my values, ever. On top of that irony holds it that me wanting to "experience" things is a "value" of mine. So, teehee.

when someone is a ferm believer in something I take the opposite viewpoint just to play the devils advocate and somehow prove that all theories are relative. I think there is truth in most theories/values. I consider all different values and weight them against my inner value system. I talk what feels true to me and toss the rest.

Yea, I do that too. A lot. That reminds me... There was this one kid at school and he was all ranting that children coming from families in the Bible belt in the Netherlands had no excuse for developing "conservative" "single minded" (OH THE IRONY) personalities. Purely because public education was compulsory and that "critical thinking" was in the curriculum.

I was so astounded, not only because of the horrible logic but also by the irony.
Anyways, I said... "Well.... I'm not too sure, I mean, if I were born in such a family and were "indoctrinated(I used this word to be on one line with him)" with certain beliefs, I don't think I would "change my mind" that easily just because I go to school. I don't think I'm arrogant and shortsighted enough to make that claim, I mean, I have to admit. I come from a background that is in more in line with your train of thought... But I can imagine things could be very different for me if it weren't so."

Ugh I despised that guy~ His thought patterns were so opposing with mine >;0. Anyways, I pretended to be all naive and kept using myself as an infallible "tool" to get the message across.
If I were to change the word "I" with "them" he would would most likely have been strongly against it, but I kept referring back to myself, he has no access to my opinion! It was so fun that I said "I don't think I'm arrogant enough to...." Because then I "poisoned the well", meaning that if he said he still agreed with his former premises it would mean he's arrogant. HA, take that! (okay, that sounded very childish, but it was fun, really)

Do you also do that? Pretend you're some kind of naive child to get a point across?

But in the end... I still often use very "diplomatic" ways to talk. HmMMMmmmmm ~ I bet we all do that then~ Must be those values.

 

[Phoenix Down]

That's true, I agree with you so much~~~ But nyoooo don't get angry at me for throwing raw, stinky, unpolished ideas on the table (secretly I admit, I should think about things more.... Maybe I'm too impulsive)

Its not the unpolished ideas that leave me unsatisfied.

Its the 'but whatever" that bothers me.
ITS NOT WHATEVER! GO BACK AND TELL ME!

Its like when someone's like. Hey, I have this super exciting thing... oh never mind!
Why you be so mean?

 

[Oranguh]

Its not the unpolished ideas that leave me unsatisfied.

Its the 'but whatever" that bothers me.
ITS NOT WHATEVER! GO BACK AND TELL ME!

Its like when someone's like. Hey, I have this super exciting thing... oh never mind!
Why you be so mean?

hmmm~ You make point~

Oh well~
----------------------
Oh wait.... uhm, take 2? Take two, yes.

Yea, well... Maaaaaybe... What if... I feel too insecure to further share my thoughts? Perhaps my fears are running rampant, leaving not only the individual but also the readers greatly agitated.

~ It's okay if there aren't any bad intentions, right?

But, this is something to remember.

For next time.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I identified with pretty much everything Morgain said.

 

[Lurker]

My Ne identifies and solves problems with intuitive leaps.

My Ti, tells my Ne it's full of it (most of the time). Sometimes, Ne hits a home run and I file a patent application.

Clearly this is a woeful case of too much Ti and insufficient Ne, poor thang