Narcissism in the culture

[Kaipaus]

I've been doing an internet research on narcissism today. A couple of days ago I got really angry at Tyra Banks for being so horribly mean and two-faced on her top model reality tv show, and I googled "Tyra Banks narcissist" and then I started reading general articles on narcissism. They're quite interesting.

This article, for example:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-03-16-pinsky-narcissism_N.htm

It's an interview with Drew Pinsky who thinks that the entire culture (in America but also in the Western world as a whole, I think) has become more narcissistic. People score higher on an NPD survey that measures narcissistic traits, people are getting more and more obsessed with their own body, their own success, and celebrities.

Why is this happening?

How do you feel about the change of (our) culture into a more narcissistic culture?

What symptoms of this phenomenom can you see around you?

Can you recognise narcissistic traits in yourself? Do they worry you?

Do you want to participate in making the culture healthier again and if so, what can we do to stop this monstrous "me, me, me" -phenomenom?

 

[IndigoSensor]

Narcissism is increasing because public exposure has become much similar and easier to access. As such, people get a taste of exposure, and invariably want more. If that person inherently enjoys attention, but is not aware of their need for it, they become narcissistic. This also occurs for people who have developed a grandiosity complex about themselves for whatever reason.

 

[Gaze]

Great topic. I agree, we've become too self-focused and self-involved.

Why is this happening?
-For one thing, Tyra Banks is probably not the cause. She is more likely a product as many of us are of new media's influence of postmodern culture. Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death is a good read on this topic. But we've learned to focus on self-improvement, self-development. We're also as a culture, taught to be more self-reliant, and take personal responsibility for our successes, and failures, so this leads dedicating our lives to developing self, leading to narcissistic thinking (although this is not a direct correlation)

Can you recognise narcissistic traits in yourself? Do they worry you?
- Since it's a product of cultural change and technology in modernity (i really overuse this word), we're all affected by it to some degree. I think the problem is narcissism in the extreme.

 

[Kaipaus]

Personally I feel kinda guilty for being so obsessed about knowing my personality type (which I'm still unsure of). And my constant desire to know if other people agree with my own evaluations of what I'm "like". Isn't that sort of narcissistic? Aren't there better, more constructive ways to use my time? This needs to stop.

I am also guilty of watching the series "Next Top Model" (which I'm not going to watch any more, though, thanks to Tyra's awful personality). There have also been phases when I've been really interested in, say, Britney Spears's life, and phases when I've watched a lot of thinspiration videos on YouTube. Which are not very healthy ways to use time, I think.

 

[The Jester]

Has this guy even studied sociology / psychology?
It says he has a biology major.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Pinsky#Credentials

 

[Entyqua]

Why is this happening? Narcissism has always been around...I mean women in the middle ages caused their organs to move around, broken ribs, and ruptures just to have a perfect waist. Thats just one example, but its always been around. I will agree that its becoming more and more noticeable.

How do you feel about the change of (our) culture into a more narcissistic culture? it happens every century or so...but I think this particular craze has lasted nearly a half a century...I dont know what it means or where were going but...ugh...

What symptoms of this phenomenom can you see around you? My eight year old worried about being fat...

Can you recognise narcissistic traits in yourself? no...I like to do my hair...makeup...but beyond that...meh...Im me and I like it! Do they worry you? n/a

Do you want to participate in making the culture healthier again and if so, what can we do to stop this monstrous "me, me, me" -phenomenom? That, my friend, needs a world wide restructuring of parenting techniques...We teach our kids these things...

 

[The Jester]

Do you want to participate in making the culture healthier again and if so, what can we do to stop this monstrous "me, me, me" -phenomenom? That, my friend, needs a world wide restructuring of parenting techniques...We teach our kids these things...

I think you're right, but it's probably not only the parenting. (You probably mean nurture, I know.)

Nature probably has something to do with it too.
And is narcississm worrying about how you look or loving yourself? I thought it was the latter.

 

[Entyqua]

I think you're right, but it's probably not only the parenting. (You probably mean nurture, I know.)

Nature probably has something to do with it too.
And is narcississm worrying about how you look or loving yourself? I thought it was the latter.

1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity. 2. Psychoanalysis. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

and parenting is only one side of it...kids teach other kids more than their parents teach them...Nature vs nurther...doesnt matter...

One kid gets designer jeans they all want em...

 

[Kaipaus]

And is narcississm worrying about how you look or loving yourself? I thought it was the latter.

I think there are several kinds of narcissism and it's not easy to describe what narcissism means.

I was taught in high school psychology that, roughyl speaking, there are two kinds of narcissism. The first kind is creating a perfect image of yourself and then thinking that it's real. The second kind is creating a perfect image of yourself and realising that it's not real but feeling that you're *nothing* if you're not *exactly* like that perfect image.

Also, loving yourself can be healthy if it means loving yourself the way you are, with your flaws and disadvatnages, and not the way you think you are perfect, superior, extremely special, interesting, privileged etc. And if it means also being able to truly love and care about other people.

 

[The Jester]

and parenting is only one side of it...kids teach other kids more than their parents teach them...Nature vs nurther...doesnt matter...

One kid gets designer jeans they all want em...

Yea I know, that's why I said 'I know you mean nurture'
(Nurture means the whole environment, right?)

And it isn't really vs, I think it 'melts together'.
Meh. I'm not sure how to explain this in english, and it's just an opinion.

 

[Kaipaus]

Has this guy even studied sociology / psychology?
It says he has a biology major.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Pinsky#Credentials

"Drew Pinsky, the University of Southern California psychiatry professor"

~ http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/magazine/10Section2b.t-5.html

Apparently celebrities are more narcissistic than "ordinary" people. I've read that narcissistic people have a drive to become famous, which would explain their narcissism, but I've also read about "acquired narcissism", a disorder that can break out in people that have previously been normal, because suddenly people start to treat them like gods. This disorder affects many celebrities.

I can't believe that as a teenager one of my dreams was to do something great one day (like, create great art, for example) and become widely recognised. I guess that was a bit narcissistic (but I've read that teenagers often have a narcissistic phase that's perfectly normal). Now I would see being famous as a curse and pursuing fame would be like selling my soul. Often fame just feeds peoples' narcissism so that their self-love plummets from healthy to unhealthy, or from somewhat unhealthy to extremely unhealthy...

 

[Gaze]

Apparently celebrities are more narcissistic than "ordinary" people. I've read that narcissistic people have a drive to become famous, which would explain their narcissism, but I've also read about "acquired narcissism", a disorder that can break out in people that have previously been normal because suddenly people start to treat them like gods. This disorder affects many celebrities.

This doesn't affect celebrities alone. It affects human beings in general. Any situation in which someone inflates another's ego, leading them to feel that they are more than they are, they will likely become narcissistic. It's almost inevitable that you begin to think of yourself as bigger and better because everyone keeps telling you that you are.

We're all vulnerable to it to an extent. Some are more susceptible than others of course. But in a culture which values recognition and publicity over everything else, it's hard not to fall victim to it.

 

[The Jester]

"Drew Pinsky, the University of Southern California psychiatry professor"

~ http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/magazine/10Section2b.t-5.html

Apparently celebrities are more narcissistic than "ordinary" people. I've read that narcissistic people have a drive to become famous, which would explain their narcissism, but I've also read about "acquired narcissism", a disorder that can break out in people that have previously been normal, because suddenly people start to treat them like gods. This disorder affects many celebrities.

I think that if you don't have any experience in the 'sociology/psychology area', you shouldn't make any statements like that.

 

[Kaipaus]

I think that if you don't have any experience in the 'sociology/psychology area', you shouldn't make any statements like that.

Statements like what?

Have I offended someone?

I have studied psychology in high school (I realise it's not much but it's more than just my own intuitions) and I've also read some psychology articles on the internet. Psychology isn't my greatest interest but it's an interest to the extent that I think I can discuss it on the internet...

I have read in several psychology articles on the internet that acquired narcissism affects a lot of celebrities, and I have also read that celebrities are more narcissistic than ordinary people in general. So... what's your point? Why shouldn't I make statements if I don't study psychology at a university (or something)? Just trying to make discussion... you're free to make your comments, of course, but I was hoping for more insightful comments than just "you shouldn't make that kind of statement".

 

[The Jester]

Statements like what?

Have I offended someone?

I have studied psychology in high school (I realise it's not much but it's more than just my own intuitions) and I've also read some psychology articles on the internet. Psychology isn't my greatest interest but it's an interest to the extent that I think I can discuss it on the internet...

I have read in several psychology articles on the internet that acquired narcissism affects a lot of celebrities, and I have also read that celebrities are more narcissistic than ordinary people in general. So... what's your point? Why shouldn't I make statements if I don't study psychology at a university (or something)? Just trying to make discussion... you're free to make your comments, of course, but I was hoping for more insightful comments than just "you shouldn't make that kind of statement".

I meant that guy.
The guy who wrote the atricle. Not you.

And meh, maybe my comments aren't insightful, but we can't take every article serious.

 

[sassafras]

Firstly, be sure we're not confusing narcisism for vanity. Vanity is certainly an aspect, but it is not the only attribute of narcissism. Ambition alone does not necessarily equate to narcissism either. People can be ambitious and humble at the same time.

Second of all, where do we draw the line between healthy self-love and narcissim? There is such thing as a healthy ego. For instance, I would not categorize an interest in MBTI theory or quest for self-discovery as "narcissim," as some else mentioned in this thread.

I think naricissm is an extreme that relatively few people have, and while celebrities are a popular target because they symbolize what one would consider narcissim, the other thing to keep in mind is that they are not always their image. I think all of humanity is just liable to take a toke or two from the ego-bong once in a while... which is perfectly normal. I don't see that as a cultural epidemic, however.

 

[The Jester]

Firstly, be sure you're not confusing narcisism for vanity. Vanity is certainly an aspect, but it is not the only attribute of narcissism.

Second of all, where do we draw the line between healthy self-love and narcissim? There is such thing as a healthy ego. For instance, I would not categorize an interest in MBTI theory or quest for self-discovery as "narcissim."

I think naricissm is an extreme that relatively few people have. The rest of humanity is just liable to take a toke or two from the ego-bong once in a while... which is perfectly normal. I don't see that as a cultural epidemic, however.

I agree.

 

[Kaipaus]

I meant that guy.
The guy who wrote the atricle. Not you.

And meh, maybe my comments aren't insightful, but we can't take every article serious.

Ah, ok. I'm sorry for bitching at you then...

 

[Kaipaus]

Ha, I found a great animation in the spirit of celebrity narcissism:

Personally I wonder why most people who hate Tyra seem to gate her because she talks about herself so much. Talking about oneself can be annoying, sure, but it's mostly harmless. But being mean is another thing. It's not harmless. Why do people bitch about Tyra talking about herself and not about her being mean? It's much worse to be mean.

Ok, I'm babbling. I think I'm going to leave this thread for a while...

 

[The Jester]

Ah, ok. I'm sorry for bitching at you then...

Doesn't matter, I didn't really have an input in this thread anyway.