It is the equivalent of white people demanding their rights from minorities (at least here is the US--and those fools are called Klansmen.)
Thats how absurd this Men's Rights thing is to me..
Essentially I believe the overall movement to be this.
At this point the community is either:
a) 15% real issue affecting people (divorce and its effects to men seems to be the main weapon here), 85% anti-feminism or trying to reverse what feminism had been made.
b) 10% real debate / effort, 50% self-victimizing (circle jerks?), 40% WHINING.
concerns about this movement:
1. Its a seductive line of reasoning, being a victim... being morally right. It feels real... its just that most of the stuff these guys talk about seems like its not real.
I've seen one arguing that "MEN SUFFERS TOO! I DON'T GET LAID! STOP TORTURING MEN WITH YOUR FEMINAZI AGENDAS". In a topic about rape. OI.
And that is really fucked up.
Oh, I won't lie, feminism sometimes crossed some lines; they can be obnoxious and harming; but the issues they are handling? They are much more real, much more substantial. (in percentage of its members, I would say 85% solving and rallying against issues that are harming womenkind as a whole, vs 15% trying to paint MEN as the oppressor)
And I feel aside of the vitriol, a lot of the MRM's intention feels like to essentially reverse the things feminism had changed.
2. How do you explain all the women who AREN'T feminists, who aren't into social climbing? Its strange, I try to keep an open mind, I look for the things these guys are talking about and all I seem to come across as "exceptions to the rule"...
seriously... I have only met a VERY few women who could be described as "the rule" the rest were exceptions to the rules.
3. There is a LOT of nice-guy misogyny in these movements. Now seriously, I despise the so called "nice guy" Every guy I know who is labeled a "nice guy" is actually a doormat. Has no balls what so ever. I know there is this like teen angst-y image of nice guys just being these kind, caring dudes who want to love you with no benefit to themselves, but the truth is this. Everybody has needs, nice guys just have no game, so their method for getting vajayjay is to be what they think is "nice"
Now once and a while a girl will get drunk and desperate and fuck her "nice guy" buddy who like gravity has been weighing her down and trying to suck her in for probably months or years. Notice nice guys hardly ever last YEARS, more proof of their supposed benevolence. If you were being kind and caring for kind and caring sake, there is no TIME LIMIT on it, it doesn't just end, when you are discouraged.
No comment, aside from yes; I think these are true. They are painting all womenkind in a specific set of images (it's either the frigid stone cold feminazi bitch or the manipulative slut who wouldn't appreciate their niceness, for instance) based on certain qualities (they don't want to settle with me! They are offended with my jokes! They are stringing me along!) And that ticks off a lot of women, who may or may not have that certain flaw, but certainly is complex enough to not be one of those 'types'.
4.Yes divorce and family courts RAPE men... this is an issue that can probably be tackled without a named movement... And NO it wast women who made it happen. It was MEN.
Women and children 1st, and male disposability... lets be honest. We are evolutionary bound to protecting women and children ahead of our own lives as men, it makes sense in a survival notion. Women didn't just usurp the throngs of power in that area, it was hoisted upon them.
This is an argument that feminist essentially also made. Patriarchy...or at least centuries of creating a 'difference' between men and women has made some certain circumstances, both political, social, or cultural, that also affects men in a negative way.
It is strange that for those people it seems that the solution is to return to the previous status quo, rather than trying to move forward. It's rather....conservative of them.
5. Chivalry, and the old roles are dead. Can we just face the facts here? We do not live in what I would call "a survival era" where much of the struggles of our lives was just making it to the next day. We live in an age of intellect and abundance, we should really make the right plans to capitalize on that, not just spend it all away on modern living things like Starbucks or macbooks.
I don't really get what are the old roles.
6. An overabundance of ugly, short, fat hairy guys in the MGTOW MRM groups... seriously. You can tell some things by looking at the face of its people. If there is an overabundance of jaded nice guys who have no game, they join the MRM, if they are good looking and have game, they join the PUA community.
As always life is divided between winners and losers. The losers of course being the MRM.
I listened to some guy on YouTube crying about how many abuse shelters there are for women, but none of them take men. Its like... bro... if you're getting you ass kicked at home by a woman you should just digest a lead salad. I had a girlfriend try to smack me once out of anger, I grabbed her wrists and wouldn't let go, until she stopped... at no point did I feel the need to run away to a shelter. Besides if I did, my moms house would suffice. Whats the problem?
Well, @
Billy , not all guys are as strong/firm as you... It's not exactly a stereotype either.
Besides, you still have your self confidence. That's a huge difference right there, sir. Self confidence are the first thing that abusers will cut down from its victims; male or female.
But I do get your sentiment, and I'll say eh, we don't exactly know their circumstances as well.
And the earlier point...that's interesting. I feel like there is some similarities between the PUA / Ladder Theory followers and the MRM followers. But I -don't- exactly see the picture of the members. Is it possible that the source inbetween the two are the same; perhaps, in a neutral term, a perceived sense of injustice coming from womenkind whether in social or romantic or political realm?
7. MGTOW types always over-shoot everything. It cant just be an imbalanced equation, its WOMEN MAKING MATRIARCHY A REALITY! its MEN ARE BEING SWALLOWED BY FEMINISM!
Don't get me wrong, I despise feminism just as much since feminism is just a group of women doing the same shit these men are doing, feminism is like a dying old aunt that keeps living on and annoying people and spreading negativity. When they shouted down the cotton seed extract guy who was inventing male pill birth control, and the feminazis were there protesting? That's bullshit. Be that as it may, I see no reason to lump ALL women into this group of batshit insane feminists.
Yeah; there's also a sense of black and white morality. And all feminists aim for one thing according to them...which cannot be any wronger.
A lot of this gender war stuff seems to come from 2 places:
1. nice guys scorned and bitter
2. Nice girls scorned and bitter.
Granted, I think feminism -is- an old movement with tons of history and changes as time goes on. And again, they have (more (real, substantial, plenty) actual causes to fight on). And a lot of feminist aren't 'nice' in the traditional sense, AFAIK. To lump them together in 'nice' and 'bitterness' would be a lot unfair, methinks *poke*
I do think a lot of these are an issue of privilege; the ones with privilege are slowly losing their grasp, and they aren't happy.
Anyone with game doesn't seem to be a part of this trap. Hot girls get what they want, and hot dudes get what they want and the whiners are left complaining.
Not particularly for girls, I think?
There are -still- stigmas about hot (confident, smart, independent, yada yada) girls; want too much sex, they are sluts. Aim too high in career, they are stone cold bitches. Have a family, they are empty Stepfordian dolls with no ambition of their own.
They do have it easier than less attractive ones; but I won't say they have it 'easy' either.
now hot dudes?
