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Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Skarekrow, Nov 16, 2013.

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  1. John K

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    I'm pretty sure we live in a virtual reality inside our heads. It mirrors the outside world pretty accurately when we are awake using our senses to lock it to reality - dreaming, fantasy and hallucination are what happens when this VR freewheels, or goes into maintenance mode. I don't see how we could make sense of the world otherwise because what our senses detect is absolutely nothing like what we experience as perception.
     
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    Skarekrow

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    So falling asleep is not actually a problem in the long run.
    It shows a certain sign of heightened awareness - especially if you have some amount of control over it.
    Imho, it means that our mind and body are reconnecting...so if you have spent years suffering in one form or another, then it is natural to feel exhausted.
    When the stress begins to dissolve then this exhaustion can bubble up.
    If you fall asleep...don’t be self-critical...instead, congratulate yourself on having caught up on what must be needed sleep and just continue the meditation where you left off....most of the time you aren’t actually “asleep” per say anyhow.
    (see below)


    ____________________________________________



    "And if meditation sends you to sleep, then it’s just doing its job. Sometimes you have to slow down just to notice how tired you are.

    Of course, if you want to torture yourself, feel free to pull your earlobes, sit uncomfortably (or somewhere very cold), or bite your tongue. These are all recommendations some teachers make. But will forcing yourself to stay awake really help? Is that the kind of attitude that’s beneficial? In my experience, it’s learning to listen to and respect the needs of your body that helps; not denial, or force, or willpower.

    Taking a cold shower, visualizing bright lights and emphasizing the in-breath may help to keep you awake, but at what cost? These strategies might just reinforce the habits and attitudes that lead to stress, overwhelm and burnout. Would it not be wiser and kinder to acknowledge the need for rest, and to let your meditation be nap-like and drowsy, especially if you are legitimately tired?

    If you do permit yourself to rest (instead of fighting to stay awake), you may find that your energy returns much sooner. Trying to stay awake often just tires you out further. It’s hard work, and you can’t win that battle.

    But is that really sleep?
    Here’s where things start to get interesting.

    Do you really fall asleep, or do you just think you do?

    I’d estimate that 99% of the people complaining that they fall asleep during meditation actually don’t fall asleep at all (unless they’re lying down).

    Meditation, as we’ve seen, mirrors the process we go through as we fall asleep. Physiologically, our heart rate lowers, and our body chemistry, muscle tone, breathing and thinking patterns may also match those we experience at bedtime.

    In other words, because the states you experience during meditation and sleep can be so similar, you may mistake the former for the latter.

    For example, you might notice:

    • that your thoughts become fragmented, dreamy or non-sensical
    • that your respiration becomes uncommonly deep or subtle
    • that your head feels heavy
    • that you lose touch with your body
    • that you seem to be in a dream
    • that random memories pop into your head
    • that you forget where you are or can’t recall what happened.
    Experiencing these things — that normally only happen when you fall asleep — cause you to assume that you are asleep.

    And physically speaking, you could be right. But unless your head is resting on your chest, you’re probably not. There’s a flicker of awareness that remains alive. You might be as close to hibernation as is humanly possible, and you might not quite know where you are, but you’re not unconscious. You’re still noticing what’s going on, if only to a subtle degree.

    In other words, sleep and wakefulness are not as black-and-white as we assume. Consciousness unfolds on a spectrum, from wide awake through to sound asleep, and there are many points in between.

    In meditation, we can explore this full spectrum, for there are things to learn from every point along it.

    Is falling asleep in meditation really so bad?
    Much of what we hear about meditation has been handed down to us by the monks and yogis of ages past. They usually practised in a religious or spiritual context and their concern was with liberation, enlightenment or some kind of transcendent experience. They were striving to be awakened, not asleepened. For them, drowsiness (referred to as sloth and torpor in many Buddhists texts) was considered a hindrance. But does it have to be a problem for you?

    By and large, the goals and views handed down to us from these traditions haven’t been adequately questioned. Messages which may be outdated, inappropriate or just plain wrong, continue to get propagated. This is one reason sleep continues to get a bad wrap.

    But sleep deprivation is actually a form of torture. And anyone with insomnia will happily tell you that sleep is a rather wonderful thing.

    More to the point, there’s a lot to be gained from being able to access and explore these deeply relaxing sleep-like states. This is where:

    • creative ideas and insights may unfold
    • you might access material that’s usually locked away in the subconscious
    • you may recall traumatic experiences with detachment and equanimity
    • memories or emotions might bubble up in order to be released
    • a sense of deep rest or peace may descend upon you
    • some form of spontaneous healing might occur.
    It’s also the territory a shaman might consciously visit — a rich, trance-like zone, characterised by unique brainwaves and from which you might emerge feeling incredibly rested, refreshed or joyous.

    Experienced meditators will be familiar with this zone. They’ll also be able to differentiate between it and the descent into regular sleep.

    Beginners, on the other hand, may not be able to make such distinctions. They’ll just assume that they’re asleep.

    Being able to tell the difference is a key meditative skill, and one that requires that you explore the territory, even if that means nodding off now and then.

    Exploring the sleep zone
    So how do you tell the difference between:

    • dozing off because you’re genuinely tired
    • dozing off because your mind just isn’t used to slowing down
    • dozing off because you’re subconsciously avoiding difficult thought or emotions, or
    • consciously entering a state of deep sleep-like relaxation or concentration?
    I’m not sure that there’s an easy way to tell, though with experience it should become clearer.

    One thing to be aware of is that the way you meditate may influence how wakeful you remain. Some techniques require a more active or focused approach. Other’s encourage you to adopt a passive or receptive stance. I find that techniques that require you to continually return your attention to some anchor, such as the breath, don’t allow you to access dream-like states quite so readily. But people still fall asleep practising in this style, so there aren’t really any hard and fast rules on what will keep you wakeful, or send you into the world of dreams.

    If you’re interested in exploring the sleepy end of the spectrum I would suggest that you let your thoughts and emotions be a part of your practice and don’t be concerned if your attention wanders a lot.

    Strategies for staying awake when meditating
    By now I hope you’re okay with falling asleep when you meditate, at least some of the time.

    However, if you’ve read this far perhaps you’re still hoping for some advice on how to stay awake.

    Recommendations abound, but before we explore them, I’d like you to consider why you want to stay awake.

    Perhaps you’ve heard some of these injunctions:

    • When we meditate, we want to be aware, alert and awake.
    • Try to focus on your meditation object no matter what.
    • Combat the urge to doze off.
    • Be diligent. Remain alert, very alert.
    • Sleep and mindfulness are opposites.
    • Meditating and sleeping are two distinct activities and should not be mixed together.
    • When you fall asleep while meditating, you will not gain the complete benefits of meditation.
    Where do all these rules come from? What is their purpose?

    Why do we need to remain aware and alert? Is that always the best strategy?
    Why do we need to remain focused? Could it be possible that our best insights will come when we’re not so focused, or trying so hard to keep our mind alert?
    Are sleep and mindfulness really opposites? Might it be possible to be mindful when we’re close to sleep?

    I haven’t found any of the commonly touted reasons for not falling asleep to be valid. It’s true that meditation and sleep are different. It’s also true that if you think you’re meditating when you’re actually sound asleep, then you’re deluding yourself. But that doesn’t mean we have to demonise sleep and sleep-like states.

    Nor does it mean that you shouldn’t use meditation as a tool for falling asleep. It can be very helpful in that regard.

    Of course, there are situations in which it is appropriate to heed the regular advice. For instance:

    • If you always meditate lying down, try sitting up.
    • If you always meditate when you’re tired, meditate when you’re wide awake.
    • If you meditate in bed, try the kitchen instead.
    • If have you narcolepsy, see a doctor.
    In cases where you are not actually tired, but can’t seem to stay awake, there are alternatives to sitting:

    1. Try a walking meditation.
    2. Stand up and do some mindful stretching, yoga, or tai chi.
    If you still want to sit, but just need a kickstart:

    1. Take a break.
    2. Do some vigorous exercise.
    3. Take a shower or wash your face.
    4. Coffee!
    Sometimes it may be helpful to create an environment conducive to wakefulness:

    1. Don’t meditate where you sleep, or just before bed.
    2. Open a window. Let some fresh air in.
    3. Meditate somewhere that’s not too warm and cosy.
    4. Meditate outdoors.
    5. Keep the lights on.
    Consider various other factors that may influence your energy levels:

    1. Don’t have a big meal just before you meditate.
    2. Pick a time when you are most alert.
    Adjust the meditation technique or the way you’re meditating:

    1. Have something to focus on.
    2. Meditate with your eyes open.
    3. Focus upon, and emphasize, the in-breath.
    4. Listen to uplifting or energizing music.
    5. Visualize a bright light.
    If you’re hardcore, through and through:

    1. Slap yourself.
    2. Bite your tongue.
    3. Hold your breath.
    4. Pinch your earlobes.
    Before doing any of that though:

    • Ask: Am I just really tired?
    • Consider taking a nap, or ensuring that you do get enough sleep.
    Key Points
    1. It’s okay to fall asleep during meditation.
    2. If you’re genuinely tired sleep is probably just what you need.
    3. It’s common to mistake deep meditative states for sleep.
    4. Some of the most beneficial meditative states are accessed on the cusp of sleep.
    5. Meditating in bed, or while lying down, will tend to induce sleep.
    6. It really is okay to fall asleep during meditation.
    The Bottom Line
    If you fall asleep occasionally, you don’t have a problem.

    There’s no point criticizing yourself for falling asleep. It’s not something you have control over.

    In some meditations you’ll feel sleepy, in others, you’ll feel wired. Why not enjoy each for what it is?"
     
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    Skarekrow

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    Community Trauma and Development

    Leslie Korn, Ph.D., M.P.H

    Presented at: The World Conference on Violence and Human Coexistence,

    Sponsored by University College, Dublin and the Center for World Indigenous Studies, Olympia WA., U.S.A.


    What is sacrificed with the elevation of human consciousness above natural process is not only the idea of the intelligence of nature, but ones experience of being immersed in a larger whole.

    The history of development is a history of trauma.
    Development that is not self determined is predatory.

    Development that is not self determined precipitates inter-generational trauma in individuals and communities.
    When this occurs people suffer loss and grieve over ways of life, families divide and the rituals of celebration and healing lose meaning.

    When development is not self determined, the earth loses as well.
    Assaulted and out of balance, she grieves and falters in her ability to offer nourishment.

    Because the sea cries black tears at her invasion she too cannot proffer her bounty—and then all of natures animals are out of order.

    The body is to spirit like the land is to its people—the ground of life force.
    However there are predators — people, governments, and corporations who exert power over others in order to take the resources of people and their lands.

    And because of their intimate interconnection, taking the land destroys a people, just as taking the rituals and ways of life, destroys the land.
    The invasion of development disconnects people from their land and its plentitude of resources just as rape leaves an individual disconnected from herself and others and in somatic, psychic and spiritual pain.

    The Yup’ik peoples of the northern hemisphere celebrate the Kelek, the annual inviting-in Feast where prayers are offered and the animals of land and sea are asked to return and offer themselves for the coming harvest.

    How opposite is the force of development, where oil corporations, uninvited, demand their harvest.
    Among these Inuit peoples of the northwest, homicide suicide, domestic, violence rape and substance abuse was rare 30 years ago.

    Now young men kill themselves in droves, husbands beat their wives and people are dying from the poison of alcohol.

    Development that does not occur as part of a nations natural ebb and flow of creative change is traumatic.
    Development is traumatic when it is imposed by one group on another.

    Development that is not in the control of the communities is a form of socially-condoned violence and leads to genocide.

    Salmon is the lifeblood of my Cowlitz family on the Northwest coast of North America and of my Yakama brothers and sisters further up the river.

    Salmon are also the lifeblood of Ireland.
    The Irish creation story tells of Tuan the sole survivor on earth of a great plague who in order to bring people back to earth had to became one with other animals, to identify with them completely.

    Thus he took the form of Salmon for a hundred years while his blood became as pure as the streams and oceans in which he swam.
    Only then did people return to earth after the long plague.

    Colonialism has mutated into the current plague of development and continues to invade the lands of many indigenous peoples.
    In Cowlitz land, it dams up the river, cuts the forest trees, and builds roads that destroy the topsoil.

    Salmon are dying.
    Development suggests that Salmon be “farmed”.

    The new species of Salmon, artificially cultivated, stock our stores and further destroy the wild life of this ancient being.

    The nuclear power plant at Hanford reservation on the land of Yakama nation just north of Cowlitz has poisoned the earth and river with radioactivity, destroyed the cells of our elders and children, poisoned the healing plants and foods, and caused tumors in the sacred salmon .

    In many Indo- European languages the final part of several words meaning tongue also serve as the term for fish.
    Thus is the story of creation told by the tongue again and again.

    But if there are no fish, there will be no tongues, to tell the story.

    Trauma alters the eco-system of the body mind and spirit, like oil pollutes water.
    What happens to people when they are exposed to overwhelming events over which they have no control ?.

    Experiments conducted in the 1960’s illustrate what happens to animals when exposed to stress from which they cannot escape.

    Dogs were trained to jump from one compartment in a shuttle avoidance box to an adjoining compartment to avoid receiving an electric shock to their paws.

    When the dogs had mastered this task, a barrier was placed to prevent some of them from escaping and avoiding the shock.
    Two-thirds of those animals who couldn’t escape experienced depression, disruption of normal defecation and generalized distress.

    However, when the barriers were removed and the animals were able to move in order to escape the shock, they remained passive, in spite of food being placed across the way.

    Attempts to drag the animals across the grid to teach them that the cage was now safe, were only partially successful.
    Some dogs mastered the new task, while most remained helpless and passive.

    This led to a concept called Learned Helplessness a physical model for depression.
    The inability to escape from stress or to control the outcome leads to depression and despair.

    Because dogs and humans have much in common socially, psychologically and physically much has been learned through this study.
    Yet as a research scientist, I must object to this type of research, that causes harm to animals as unethical and abusive.

    Traumatic stress disorder is a dis-order that causes serious debility in the heart and mind of a community.
    I hyphenate the word dis-order in order to illustrate that rather than a disorder as it is commonly used in medical pathology, trauma and its related dis-orders are indeed a disruption of the capacity to find order in ones world—whether that be the world of ones own nervous system or of the earth’s nervous system of rivers and streams.

    Trauma becomes a disease, a dis ease, because there is no longer ease in ones world.

    Trauma is characterized by exposure to overwhelming events
    These include acts of nature, accidents and intentional violence such as that caused by humans.

    Trauma also arises from what is conventionally referred to as technological disasters, such as the accidental release of nuclear radiation into the atmosphere or the spilling of oil into the sea.

    These might be classified as corporate -mediated trauma.
    These are the disasters of development that traumatize the land and its peoples.

    The stress response is at first a life saving response, built -in to our biology to give all of us --hunters and fishermen, mothers and fathers, extraordinary strength and clarity when confronted by danger.

    If confronted by a bear in the wild, no weapon in hand, a racing heart, pumping blood, and rush of hormones lead to quick thinking and action.
    However when the stress response is called into action again and again, without the ability to affect the outcome, then despondency, despair and rage set in.

    This also leads to chemical changes.
    Lactic acid builds up in the muscles, leading to rigidity, pain and anxiety.

    The nervous system malfunctions, the immune system is weakened along with digestion and heart function.
    People alternate between depression and immobility to anxiety and irritability and self blame.

    They hurt themselves and others and abuse drugs and alcohol in order to not feel the collective rage and pain.
    Self-harming behavior, physical pain and self-medication, like the extensive abuse of pharmaceuticals, drugs and alcohol only reinforce a sense of being out of control.

    Helpless to change the present, the individual believes there is no future.
    This loss of self-efficacy and ability to mobilize change spreads throughout members of the community.

    If this is not addressed at the individual and community level, trauma often leads to the reenactment of behaviors that in turn traumatize others—for example, violence.

    I assert that efforts toward reducing violence, improving chronic health problems, reducing alcoholism and drug abuse will all fail until the underlying cause, traumatic stress is addressed.

    The experience of whole groups being helpless not once but over and over again in the face of personal assault, state invasion and attempts to take away cultural identity is insidious and devastating.

    For when whole communities are traumatized, who cares for the wounded when the caretakers, healers, shamans and elders are themselves wounded?

    Development that is not self determined also causes dissociative responses.
    Dissociation is the disruption of the usually integrated functions of consciousness, memory, identity, sensorimotor control and perception of the environment.

    Dissociation while at times ordinary also occurs as a natural protective response to situations that are so traumatizing that the human animal withdraws its awareness

    Dissociation is a human capacity, seen among people of all cultures, and occurs along a continuum.
    For example at times during my talk you may find your mind wandering to another thought and topic and then suddenly bring yourself back to focus.

    Or driving in a car, you go from point A to point B and remember nothing in between in spite of the fact that you drove you functioned “automatically”.
    The more severe forms of dissociation include walking into the closet and not remembering that you bought that pair of shoes, or burning yourself with a cigarette because the anxiety becomes to great.

    Chronic pain and alcoholism are also dissociative responses.
    The ultimate act of dissociation is suicide, where the pain is so great you must leave your body behind.

    In many ways dissociation is also an analogy for development.
    When it is not under self control, it is destructive.

    However when it is under the control of the community it is life affirming.
    For example, dissociation is also a form of trance phenomena and is cultivated by Shamans and other medicine people for healing and religious experience.

    Leaving ones body behind to explore the spirit realms allows greater access to the mysteries of spirit.

    The traditional use of the shamanic plant or entheogen (meaning “god within”) amanitia muscaria, the mushroom used by indigenous peoples such as the Chuckchee, of Siberia and the Mazatec or Oaxaca, Mexico is another route to the divine.

    This mushroom, that grows in the moist forest floor is believed to have been abundant in the forests of Ireland and inspired the mysteries of Celtic worship—This gift from the goddess is now extinct in Ireland, due to deforestation.


    One can only ask how the chronic violence and abuse of alcohol in Ireland are associated with the loss of it indigenous traditions rooted in the worship of the land and its gifts.

    Dissociative processes have both negative and positive impacts on psycho- physical health.
    Dissociation is part of a symptom matrix associated with PTSD, including somatization, self- mutilation and substance abuse.

    Dissociation becomes pathological when it is an uncontrolled response.
    Shamans lead themselves and others into altered states—in effect being in control of losing control.

    Throughout history gifted humans have transformed the negative effects of trauma into positive.
    Shamans are chosen by their communities precisely because they stared down suffering or death and returned from the trauma stronger and able to guide and heal others.

    Industrialization and development both arise from dissociation and have led to endemic social dissociation.
    Dissociation throughout the industrialized regions has led to disconnection from the land.

    I was struck recently when I invited the grandson of a friend of mine from the city to swim with me in the river near my home: “I don’t like to swim in rivers, I only like swimming pools!”, he cried.

    Children like this grow up and serve on corporate boards and make government policy.
    It is this simple early, disconnection that can lead to the unrelenting plunder of others lands.

    Not surprisingly, the ancients of many cultures considered gaining control over the nervous system integral to health.
    Many indigenous healing traditions arose out of the need to heal people from experiences of trauma.

    The natural rhythms of the body/mind pulsate, oscillate and vibrate in concert with nature.
    Nature provides the means of restoring a person’s psychobiological equilibrium often lost to trauma, however in development, it is also nature itself that is traumatized.

    Normally the nervous system synchronically orchestrates the natural rhythms of the body/ mind, however in response to trauma, these rhythms are severely disrupted, affecting all aspects of function.

    Indigenous peoples are challenged and tested over the millennia by a natural environment that is often stressful and traumatic.
    In response peoples have developed ways of coping, healing and responding that enabled people to survive productively in spite of the difficulties life offered.

    These medicines include family and community connection, physical closeness, the use of hot and cold water, laughter, massage, foods and medicines from the land and sea.

    Medicines also includes the helper spirits that assist and guide in times of difficulty .

    The essence of traditional medicine, across all cultures is found in the dictum that “nature cures”.
    Many traditional forms of medicine and healing restore balance via the nervous system and thus help to heal.

    Humans are gifted with the capacity to heal themselves and others and nature provides the methods

    This is part of the order of nature.
    In the traditions of native peoples the shamans serve to mediate between the seen and unseen realms.

    Their nervous systems tuned acutely, transformed by trance to receive spirit medicine.
    The animals who give their bodies so their brothers and sisters can be sustained are also healers helping others survive the potential traumas of natures extremes.

    Traumatic stress continues to be an invisible issue throughout many communities including professional ones.
    Psychologists study the effects of trauma on the mind and ignore the sociopolitical underpinnings that cause it.

    Anthropologists discuss the “stress of change”, or acculturation, academic euphemisms for trauma and note the difficulties natives have in adapting to change.

    Many in the field of development do not even ask the questions.

    Trauma is as contagious as any infectious disease Listening to a story or witnessing another’s experience is very distressing.
    It is unpleasant to think about and listen to, let alone undertake actions to address.

    Traumatic stress can be addressed but it is never forgotten.
    Understanding how trauma affects individuals and communities physically, mentally emotionally spiritually and environmentally can support community- determined efforts to reclaim lost traditions, strengthen existing ones and reconnect the seen with the unseen world in order to address the effects of trauma.

    Restoring balance to individuals and communities, the earth, sea and sky must arise from self determination.

    The antidote to loss of control engendered by development is to take control- control of land, resources, political and economic structures.
    The antidote to traumatic stress, whether it be at the individual or the community level is to take control- strengthen social supports, talk with each other about the pain, enlist the elders, take action and most importantly gain control over one’s own health, the nervous system and thus behavior.

    This requires distinguishing between medicines that heal and those that just kill pain Most important are the healing traditions and celebratory rituals that served our ancestors.

    These rituals may still initiate young ones into the knowledge of the unseen world, where to remain in control of the rivers of one’s own nerves guides whole communities to safety.

    Questions for Consideration and Discussion

    Consider the term “development” What does it mean to you?
    What are the value judgments placed in the word?

    What does it mean to you when you hear a developed country or undeveloped or under developed?
    Who has coined these terms of reference and what purpose do they serve?

    Are there alternative ways to “classify” these countries.
    If so what should they be What are the effects of development on your life?

    Think back to your ancestors’ lives.
    Where they lived, migrated to and settled.

    What was the impact of development on their lives?
    How has their experience been passed on to you—either consciously or unconsciously.

    Consider the lands where you have traveled.
    What are the various states of development that you have observed.

    During your travels and sojourns observe the varying stages of “development”.
    What are the positive and negative impacts of the introduction of industry, technology, migratory patterns? tourism?

    Other influences?
    What kind of role would you like to play?
    How would you influence policies?

    Consider how travel changes your view of yourself and your life at home?
    What are some of the effects on your beliefs and experiences.

    How will your time here alter your life, your work and your relationships?
     
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    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    A few tidbits...



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    click.jpg


    cool.jpg


    Nash.jpg






     
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    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    A few more....



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
    Excerpt from the New York World

    Telegram, July 11, 1935

    "Nikola Tesla revealed that an earthquake which drew police and ambulances to the region of his laboratory at 48 E. Houston St., New York, in 1898, was the result of a little machine he was experimenting with at the time which ”you could put in your overcoat pocket.”

    The bewildered newspapermen pounced upon this as at least one thing they could understand and Nikola Tesla,
    “the father of modern electricity” told what had happened as follows:

    Tesla stated, “I was experimenting with vibrations. I had one of my machines going and I wanted to see if I could get it in tune with the vibration of the building. I put it up notch after notch. There was a peculiar cracking sound. I asked my assistants where did the sound come from. They did not know. I put the machine up a few more notches. There was a louder cracking sound. I knew I was approaching the vibration of the steel building. I pushed the machine a little higher. “Suddenly all the heavy machinery in the place was flying around. I grabbed a hammer and broke the machine. The building would have been about our ears in another few minutes. Outside in the street there was pandemonium. The police and ambulances arrived. I told my assistants to say nothing. We told the police it must have been an earthquake. That’s all they ever knew about it.”




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    "The use of the word person in every European language to signify a human individual is unintentionally appropriate;
    persona really means a player’s mask, and it is quite certain that no one shows himself as he is,
    but that each wears a mask and plays a role.
    In general, the whole of social life is a continual comedy, which the worthy find insipid, whilst the stupid delight in it greatly."

    Arthur Schopenhauer , The Art of Being Right.



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    “A polymath is someone who is interested in everything, and nothing else.”

    Eco Umberto



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    Proverbs 27, 7 –

    "The full soul loatheth an honeycomb; but to the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet”


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    “Listen to the wind, it talks.
    Listen to the silence, it speaks.
    Listen to your heart, it knows.”

    Native American Proverb



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    http://womenandpolicing.com/violenc...EWDmLEfpkpIWs3MVy3aJCr_Cd0lP1xTlrDf5Qbg#notes



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    #7905 Skarekrow, Dec 6, 2018
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  6. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Those were some pretty profound experiences to put it lightly John.
    Funny, but I can relate to what you said about your inner and outer worlds and the definition that you see between them.

    Let me jump to the ego bit - "Perhaps what both hinders and saves me is that I find it very hard to let go of my ego except when I'm asleep - it has a very tight grip on the worlds I live in, and that stops them sliding out of control totally, but as I'm sure you would advise me yourself, this can also be a barrier.”

    Well, the ego has a task...it is to do.
    It is to problem solve whatever situation we are faced with...the ego has been conditioned by our society and other influences to always be in a “doing” mode - as opposed to “being”.
    In fact...some people cannot even understand what “being” entails.
    Again...with the default mode network...(the recent video I posted about “Mushrooms and meditation” goes into this more actually)...it is both the house of our ego and our problems solving doing mind - and the ego-quieting mind state of “being”.
    Just by meditating...you are loosening your ego so to speak John.
    Meditation calms the DMN which in turn has a ego silencing effect...or quieting anyhow.
    This is the same region that mushrooms effect similarly - giving a person a lesser ego or dissolution of an ego.
    Also - would you say that your ego still existed when you had your own “timeless” void experience??

    It’s funny...but I have reached a spot now where I can say with some confidence - the pain will never best me.
    And I have to give credit to mediation and to the mushrooms (combined with meditation) as well as talking the time to really get to the root of some issues...for lessening my suffering from the pain.
    Mostly by recognizing the negative ways my ego was reacting - well...not meant to be outright negative...it was only trying to help...but once your “doing” ego runs out of solutions for the pain - it’s starts to get more self-critical, etc. (basically acts like a spoiled child who didn’t get their way) and starts in with negative looping.
    That solution didn’t work...then this one will....that one didn’t...then this one will....over and over until it runs the whole gambit of possible solutions and when it comes up short then we can easily fall apart if we are very self-identifying with the ego...you get depressed, catastrophizing, anxious, etc.
    Each time...the ego goes through the loop without a solution at the end...it amplifies the message - which can mean an amplification of pain/suffering even physically.
    Basically it’s going downhill like this -
    [​IMG]
    lol

    Depression...anxiety...PTSD....past trauma...all actually engage the DMN and more blood flow and connectivity is the result - which begins to make actual physiologic changes to the connectivity it has with the rest of the brain - it is much, much more active in those stressed out and suffering from whatever situation than those who are not.
    Both meditation and mushrooms calm the DMN - and in turn start to dissolve the ego - either way you go about doing it, it can take a lot of inner work and soul searching...but rest assured that you are calming it.
    The more you practice meditation the more you can start to see the ego as separate where you couldn’t before...I guess you’ll just have to take my word on that one...it took me a while...and some rather intense experiences to really get me to this point now where I can almost...aaaallllmost....turn off the suffering while not meditating.
    Just realizing secondary suffering as opposed to primary is a great remover of fuel that negative feelings blossom and thrive with.
    It’s also one thing to read this here or something similar elsewhere and have it make sense wholly...imho it’s not until you really dive in that it makes a different type of sense that you didn’t possess prior to exploring this aspect of yourself.

    I would say your “void” experience that you talked about would qualify for an out of body experience.
    You were conscious yes...but not in this reality and not in your body.
    It isn’t the same you are right as being fully cognizant and lucid and realizing you are OOB.
    And there are so many different altered states of consciousness...more than one first can imagine it seems.
    OOB vs lucid dreams, etc.

    As far as feeling like you don’t belong on this planet...I can empathize...or even in this reality.
    I feel that also.
    I would suspect that these types of experiences as children happen more frequently than we know...we just don’t remember them as adults and don’t pay attention to such “trivial” details in life and reality as we once did as more present (less doing, more being) children.

    Very glad that your faith was able to offer you some solace and a place to turn.
    And I don’t have a negative view of most religions like I did more in the past.
    Part of that was the dissolution of the still growing concept of “faith” I had when we left the church I was raised in at 15-16, after being told all my life up until that point that is was the truth.
    So I can relate in a round about way.
    I consider myself to have “faith” now...but my definition of faith is “how much control my will has over this reality” (by will alone) and the discovery that I can live with the unknown and still be as educated about it as I can knowing that it is ineffable - which has to be felt in the heart.
    :<3white:

    Being “aware” when meditating is one thing...but to pull back and watch your thoughts in a nonjudgmental manner is the real trick!
    That is where the work lies if you are going to go for mindfulness - which I do recommend to those who are okay with it and it doesn’t exacerbate things.
    You are obviously mindful that your thoughts are going here and there...and mindful to an extent of your own ego and what it is telling you and NOT telling you.
    So that is more than some....plus you have had some existential experiences to draw from.
    As far as existential dread goes I agree with what you wrote.
    Not all my experiences have been “positive” or fun that is for sure...so I think I can relate to your feelings in that aspect as well as another can with such a subjective thing.
    But even the “negative” experiences have been positive (like you said) in retrospect.
    It’s all perception.
    It’s a question of - how can you make lemonade from those lemons?
    Not ignoring the outcome or living in denial, but accepting what is....being and not doing.

    Now I’m rambling...but I promised to write you more on the subject!
    IDK if this is just reiterations of basic understanding already there for you or not...hope it helps some and made sense!
    Much love!
     
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    #7906 Skarekrow, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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  7. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    I would have to say that I agree with you 100%! ;)
    Especially having seen some quite altered versions of it....
     
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  8. John K

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    I really appreciate this Skarekrow - very many thanks for the time and trouble you have taken. As before, I'm going to spend some more time thinking about it - there's a lot to take in. There is some reiteration of things I know, but that's great because my experience is that life is a spiral that brings me back to the same places every few years - having forgotten much, but with more experience and different viewpoints. There is stuff that is new to me as well and that is great. There is an ethical side too that is helped by talking to others like yourself - not a fancy one, but the same sort that says if you want to achieve anything you need to put some discipline into how you approach it. The spiritual journey is like that and practical issues - such as finding a quiet time at home, and making the effort actually to do some meditation regularly for example - are key issues along with the deep stuff. I can procrastinate with the best of them :sweatsmile:. I'm very drawn to bottoming out the ego thing - I need to gain a lot more insight on what is meant by what is said about it. I'm laid back about this because it's obvious that misunderstanding will just have ego doing silly things like trying to pretend it ain't there with disastrous and completely comical results.

    I love that flaming wheelchair - but I had a sneaky thought that it reminds me of the Burning Bush !! It must be getting late here and my Ni is going off track .....

    I hope your back is not giving you too much grief at the moment - is it good news you haven't said a lot about it recently? It really is a great thing to keep as positive as you do given how bad this can be - and a huge endorsement for how you are dealing with it.

    Much love repaid with interest!!
     
  9. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Thanks John...I tend to repeat myself from time to time.
    I forget who or when I said what about or how sometimes....lol
    But I always am trying to offer some solutions for those who are looking - even though that is “doing” and not “being” haha.
    It gives my ego something to do and puzzle over, and I really understood when I stopped working how much of my “self” I had wrapped up in it - so it’s kind of a throw back to being able to help people (also why I like to lead the Chronic Pain Group) which is healthy for the ego when done for the correct and right reasons.
    You are also right that it would pretend it isn’t there...lol...at one particular point in time...my ego was barely there...this was one of the more powerful healing sessions I’ve done.
    But it was hilarious to me...no...not me...though there was still an “I” there somewhere, it definitely wasn’t in the driver’s seat...it was hilarious to the universe (so it seemed) the way we as humans behave and the silly little habits and strange behaviors that make up a portion of everyone and their quirks that separate us all - it was also revealing how much my ego had been actively mistreating me that was either put up with or ignored or was even listened to...that was no longer funny but heartbreaking.
    Ever since, “I" have been focusing more on breaking down my suffering into recognizable parts...and also having the realization of how each one effects me in a negative or positive way - because as eluded - even suffering can be a positive thing when the end result is the lessening of said suffering.

    Funny you mention the burning bush as I just read something - "In Exodus 3, an angel appears out of a burning bush to Moses, which leads to Moses hearing the call of God. In a nod back to earlier Egyptian and Assyrian/Sumerian practice, some scholars suggest that Moses was burning Acacia Nilotica, a rich source of DMT and the “Tree of Life” from antiquity.”

    In other words...he was perhaps dissolving his ego to speak with “God” - or the silent feminine subconscious right brain that normally gets shut out by the ego...and in a society such as ours that is very ego-centric...self-serving in many ways, but also geared toward “doing” as a source of meaning and purpose more so than our society welcomes and has places for “being” - which also encompasses finding that source of “flow" to compliment your “doing” and balancing them out.

    And yes...I have for sure found that the more you put out, the more you get back...in just about every situation.
    Not always immediately.
    But immediately is rarely necessary.
    Just as I had to gather all the paperwork and financial BS to send in to the hospital in hopes of getting the bills written off...it took a bit of time and effort on my part, as well as writing a letter to hospital asking for mercy, lol.
    It paid off though, as I just got the letter today that about $16,000.00 was eliminated!
    Balance at zero.
    I am extremely grateful.

    Yes...procrastination is something I have a knack for also ahaha.
    With meditation it took multiple times trying and stopping and restarting again before I established a habit and it became easier.
    Now if I don’t meditate, I feel out of whack...lol.

    My back is pretty okay I suppose thanks for the kind words!
    It’s doing it’s thing, haha.
    Like I mentioned earlier...I feel that my level of suffering lately has gone down by doing a lot of this work on my ego and the negative thought loops that I can be prone to creating with the chronic pain.
    So just that realization alone has taken some of the sting out of the bite I guess you could say.
    Which was my original intention by going down this route - so yea! (the ego is happy something positive was accomplished, lol)
    The pain is just as bad...but I don’t let it get further than the physical as much as possible now - as far as letting your feelings become overly involved and out of control creating secondary suffering only reinforcing the physical and making it all hurt more.
    It’s a funny cycle...but a brilliant one that I can appreciate from a design/survival perspective - the ego has it’s role...but it seems that it overtook the more subtle and oftentimes more intelligent side of our mind and brain.
    It is certainly the kinder side.

    Much love to you John!
    TTYS!
     
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    #7909 Skarekrow, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  10. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Also...I could be completely at odds with what works best for you (whomever is reading this).
    The thoughts on ego and self could be totally wrong and "I" could be deceiving myself (this could always be a possibility).
    I certainly don’t want anyone to think that I know what is best for someone else - we all have an innate gist of what works for us and what doesn’t (sometimes without trying it, though you should at least do that imho).
    There have been some difficult experiences to get to the point that is currently holding and slowly creeping upward.
    But this is all subjective to me...what works for one doesn’t necessarily work for all.
    Though one may find some helpful thoughts and ideas to glean and make their own...and that is my hope by sharing and theorizing.
    Sometimes it seems people tap into the collective consciousness and can bring forth immense change - while someone else can have a very heavy mystical experience that changes them to their core and the ripples may not be as noticeable, but they are still there with an inner light that shines even in the most difficult of times and makes changes to people that are not always seen but make an even bigger impact down the road.
    Look for the helpers.
    (That is what my Mom always says)

    Anyhow...don’t start getting the strange idea that I know what in the blazing hell I’m actually talking about, lmao. :tonguewink:

    :<3white:
     
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    #7910 Skarekrow, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  11. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    You do know some pretty rad stuff though :)
     
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  12. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    So do you my friend!
    Thanks!
    And speaking of an “inner light”...you’re damn bright.
    Your words of kindness and humor always cheer me up as I’m sure they do many others here you don’t even realize.
    (I bet you even have some lurking stalkers who follow you like...well...a stalker...lol.)

    [​IMG]

    :<3white:
     
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  13. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    Hahaha! Thank you for the kind words. You're keeping me shining with your own, my friend.

    I'll make sure to set those stalker traps, gotta keep them at bay somehow lmao (thank goodness I've never really had do deal with that).
     
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  14. John K

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    @Skarekrow , @Wyote

    You are both shining lights! For anyone else looking for help and pointers on the spiritual journey I think this is where to really let your Intuition rule your heart. Listen to these guys’ powerful insights and let it soak in alongside your own experiences and other people’s input. Then let your own path emerge in its own way and follow it - beyond the first few steps you can’t just follow in someone else’s footsteps but have to walk your own path. It’s a wonderful thing ....
     
  15. Wyote

    Wyote Con Risa Absoluta
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    You always have the right words @John K thank you and it's clear you've got your own part to contribute :)
     
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    #7915 Wyote, Dec 7, 2018
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  16. John K

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    :) :)
     
    #7916 John K, Dec 7, 2018
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  17. Sandie33

    Sandie33 Love Often & Absolutely ♡
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    Well said ♡


    :m092:
    Confessions of a stalker, lol
     
  18. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    You are all awesome!
    I really deeply appreciate the ability to bounce some far out ideas and experiences off of others in a nonjudgmental arena.
    As long as I’m here, this thread will be a safe place to do so!

    I have gotten to know each of you (and many others on this thread and forum) and feel all the greater for knowing you all.
    You are some of the kindest souls I know.
    That counts.
    And will never depreciate.

    Yes, we all must walk our own path, and most of the time by ourselves...but we don’t have to walk all of it alone if we should choose not to.
    Experience will always supersede wise words imho...but wise words and words of kindness still hold great value when we are faced with those experiences that we all must - the type we dread...we will hopefully have some reference from the experience of someone else to offer some bits of guidance should you find yourself in a similar position and perhaps not feel as lost.

    I feel that if you have overcome some difficulties in your life, it’s a good thing to share with others and offer to them, what you found worked for you - though like I said this is subjective.

    Anyway.
    I love all of you as my friends and fellow humans just trying to do the best they can with the hand they have been dealt.
    You are all doing spectacularly!
    :<3white:
     
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  19. Sandie33

    Sandie33 Love Often & Absolutely ♡
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    :<3white::<3white::<3white:
    Oh, you...:m114: :p
     
  20. OP
    Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    dream.jpg
     
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