Men Inequality: are men falling behind in society?

 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
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That’s really sad and terrible.

If men fail as a whole then I wonder what the eventual impact will be on society collectively. Like most exponents, there’s generally a tipping point where one key metric can impact the entire societal system.

The video talks about men in the West, but I’ve also seen the same for the youth (men and women) in China. There, they call it “laying flat.”

I suspect this will eventually lead to a backlash or uprising.

This all feels like greed and corruption has hit such a high level that it is destroying the very thing that gives the greedy their wealth.

Again, a very sad state of affairs.
 
TomasM said:
That’s really sad and terrible.

If men fail as a whole then I wonder what the eventual impact will be on society collectively. Like most exponents, there’s generally a tipping point where one key metric can impact the entire societal system.

The video talks about men in the West, but I’ve also seen the same for the youth (men and women) in China. There, they call it “laying flat.”

I suspect this will eventually lead to a backlash or uprising.

This all feels like greed and corruption has hit such a high level that it is destroying the very thing that gives the greedy their wealth.

Again, a very sad state of affairs.
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I can see this being one of the big factors in the downfall of the CCP with in a decade or so given how bad things have gotten over the past few years. As for society as an whole expect an demographic crises and eventually long term decline particularly in the developed countries.
 
I don't know what much I have to add to this thread beyond my own anecdata. What I see: Boys are taught from a young age that they can never hope to be as "emotionally intelligent" or "empathy" or "good listeners" as women, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. They have found some "refuge" in industries like computer programming that don't require a lot of face-to-face collaboration or emotional sensitivity, but now that those jobs have become very in-demand and high-paying, there is a strong movement to make more space for women and prioritize high-contact working styles, which again leaves some young men feeling directionless.

At the same time, women have long been taught the importance of collaboration and mutual trust, and use it to band together and uplift each other economically and emotionally (but also occasionally weaponize the same, e.g. through "callout culture" and gossip).

I work in a very male-heavy industry (not programming) and the number of men I work with who lack basic social skills such as not interrupting or monopolizing the conversation, showing up on time to meetings and staying on top of assigned tasks, and recognizing when someone needs help and offering it is... the majority of men I work with. (And a disproportionate share of the exceptions are openly gay, for whatever that's worth.) Women are gaining a lot of ground, and quickly, simply because they are willing to show up, have a real conversation, and do the work that they promise. In my age cohort, we have about a 50/50 mix of men and women at the company, but if you look at the top 10% performers, they are almost all women.
 
I recently read an article that pointed out that once the demographic of a particular field of endeavor approached 50% female that men then abandoned the field. the first example was of teaching which in the 19C was a male dominated field. the latest is college education. So are men falling behind or are they just fucking up?
 
SlowUpTake said:
I recently read an article that pointed out that once the demographic of a particular field of endeavor approached 50% female that men then abandoned the field. the first example was of teaching which in the 19C was a male dominated field. the latest is college education. So are men falling behind or are they just fucking up?
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Being the broken record that I am the first thing that always comes to mind is psychology and how those demographics are normalized in society then there is the modern factor that being ideology. It really does feel that men are simply not wanted anymore and are regarded as being social obsolescent even though men do the large majority of the physical work out there.
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
It really does feel that men are simply not wanted anymore and are regarded as being social obsolescent even though men do the large majority of the physical work out there.
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To whom?

I've been reading up on women losing their libido. Age seems to have something to do with it. However, there is a growing number of women that do not want to be touched any longer. Men have to live with this, or seek divorce, or start cheating, to have interaction the way they need it. Women can lose that emotion. Seems like they would find you someone else and look the other way, but that is no answer.

I like having women around. If men are simply not wanted anymore? Something is wrong, either with reality or feelings. Dogs were always my best friends, though. We didn't want anything from anybody, just to spend time together.

Mind you, I have been graced with the presence of some fine women in my life. Even at younger ages, my time here on earth is better because of interaction with them. They were the few, but I have lived in a relatively small world all my life. When I can get a smile out of one of them, I feel so much better to have helped them to smile. Nothing like watching them light up.

How social are we? I'm not very social at all. I try to be within my limits. I don't dress out as a social bumble bee or hummingbird. I do not hang out where large groups of people are much. My social life has always been mostly secretive and with a low profile. Don't count a male infj in such a way. I'm really not a social being, but am trying to make new friends. It is difficult with such age differences. I am wanted, but would not try to open up to a woman that thought I was not wanted any longer. So it goes, sometimes we get what we deserve instead of trying to make life better. Yes, I took offense with this, but know it was not personal. I'm married and enjoy talking with my wife very much.
I especially love listening about her happy moments as a child. She loves animals, and always had some kind of pet before her Dad would make it ready as food. She wouldn't eat meat for weeks. So sad.

We all need each other to lean on, as the song went.



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Nice video, @Roses In The Vineyard .

This sounds like a warning against Black Widows, which I can squash with my shoe. Are there that many women out there who lose respect for their man? Are there that many men who lose respect for themselves? The meek shall inherit the earth. People can respect me in my own humble way, or they can walk. I noticed a cross in your video. I am not a womanizer. In my seventies, I was doing things before the generation behind me were born. Things may be different now, but we used to get together with other couples at night and play Pinochle.
We had Easter Egg Hunts. We went fishing. We played Backgammon. Sometimes our male friends and I would play chess: penny poker.
Matchstick poker.

With all this new social media, something has been lost. A person can post something totally rude and uncolorful. We used to all do things together. Respect was not talked about, because we had it for each other. There are many other writings in the Bible. Without a Biblical understanding of a spiritual man, many misconceptions can take hold in a woman's heart. If she, too, is spiritual? We have a lovely understanding between the two.

Respect is not given: it is earned. We cannot expect all men to be Superman. We can not expect all men to be Jesus. I never expect a woman to be like Delilah. I prefer Godly love and understanding, and I fear any woman that tries to destroy men shall herself be destroyed: in what ever manner. Likewise, men should not try to destroy women. I'd like to call it mutual respect, if I may. Let's chat some more.
 
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someone’s comment:

“The liberal press is engaged in a campaign to paint women as naturally superior to men in every way. Every day WaPo, the NYT, The Atlantic, etc run a story about why women are the superior sex, and sometimes it’s the same article over and over. Western feminism isn’t about equality, it’s about changing who holds the reins of power. It’s the same as all identity politics- it’s utilized by upper class people who aren’t interested in abolishing harmful power structures so much as they are navigating them.

If it was true, propaganda wouldn’t be necessary. “Equality feels like privilege” then why is only one group the target of these people’s ire? This isn’t equality by any stretch of the word. Nothing bad has ever happened to the people who write these articles and nothing bad ever will. This is upper crust culture- I’ve been in plenty rooms with these people and they all always have their cultural “line” they’re expected to go with and uphold. There is always a project that involves pushing certain people out. They do not believe in socialism, but they do enforce their identity based theory of society under threat of social sanction. To the extent male privilege is still real, it is always only real for boys/men who come from wealth. So when they observe men getting opportunities for nothing, they fail to analyze the class aspect of it because they only see gender. They’ve been taught from an early age to ignore class because they belong to that same class of boys/men. It’s literally a campaign by upper class and middle upper class women to disenfranchise working and lower middle class men.”

Cheers,
Ian
 
aeon said:

someone’s comment:

“The liberal press is engaged in a campaign to paint women as naturally superior to men in every way. Every day WaPo, the NYT, The Atlantic, etc run a story about why women are the superior sex, and sometimes it’s the same article over and over. Western feminism isn’t about equality, it’s about changing who holds the reins of power. It’s the same as all identity politics- it’s utilized by upper class people who aren’t interested in abolishing harmful power structures so much as they are navigating them.

If it was true, propaganda wouldn’t be necessary. “Equality feels like privilege” then why is only one group the target of these people’s ire? This isn’t equality by any stretch of the word. Nothing bad has ever happened to the people who write these articles and nothing bad ever will. This is upper crust culture- I’ve been in plenty rooms with these people and they all always have their cultural “line” they’re expected to go with and uphold. There is always a project that involves pushing certain people out. They do not believe in socialism, but they do enforce their identity based theory of society under threat of social sanction. To the extent male privilege is still real, it is always only real for boys/men who come from wealth. So when they observe men getting opportunities for nothing, they fail to analyze the class aspect of it because they only see gender. They’ve been taught from an early age to ignore class because they belong to that same class of boys/men. It’s literally a campaign by upper class and middle upper class women to disenfranchise working and lower middle class men.”

Cheers,
Ian
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Principle of Polarity...when there is no equilibrium there is force to create it. The consequence of inequity is often counter-inequity, for a period of time. Awareness of the natural process affords you the necessary undrstanding to navigate with poise and EVEN aid in restorinh equilibrium in your own small way. Whe you shoot blindly intothis world, with ignorance, you add to the turbulence, and the length of time it takes to restorejustice in this one partuclar category. There are many such opportunities for improvement, so try not to take too long to compose yourself and play a constructive role in the gender balance. BTW, I agree with some of your assertions.
 
aeon said:
It’s literally a campaign by upper class and middle upper class women to disenfranchise working and lower middle class men.”
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For what selfish purpose?
 
aeon said:

someone’s comment:

“The liberal press is engaged in a campaign to paint women as naturally superior to men in every way. Every day WaPo, the NYT, The Atlantic, etc run a story about why women are the superior sex, and sometimes it’s the same article over and over. Western feminism isn’t about equality, it’s about changing who holds the reins of power. It’s the same as all identity politics- it’s utilized by upper class people who aren’t interested in abolishing harmful power structures so much as they are navigating them.

If it was true, propaganda wouldn’t be necessary. “Equality feels like privilege” then why is only one group the target of these people’s ire? This isn’t equality by any stretch of the word. Nothing bad has ever happened to the people who write these articles and nothing bad ever will. This is upper crust culture- I’ve been in plenty rooms with these people and they all always have their cultural “line” they’re expected to go with and uphold. There is always a project that involves pushing certain people out. They do not believe in socialism, but they do enforce their identity based theory of society under threat of social sanction. To the extent male privilege is still real, it is always only real for boys/men who come from wealth. So when they observe men getting opportunities for nothing, they fail to analyze the class aspect of it because they only see gender. They’ve been taught from an early age to ignore class because they belong to that same class of boys/men. It’s literally a campaign by upper class and middle upper class women to disenfranchise working and lower middle class men.”

Cheers,
Ian
Click to expand...
I recommend this film.

It helped me understand that the patriarchy is no longer based on gender and sexuality, it is about who is willing to be a dick in order to accumulate power and money. Class is a factor in it too but ultimately it is the value for meritocracy which I think is fundamentally built in view of capitalist productivity.

The women that get to be on top are portrayed as women who have balls and act like dicks. To me this implies that the world is governed by this energy of dominance and competition which many associate to be a male form of energy. In contrast, nurture and cooperation are labeled as feminine energies. Yet both conceptualizations are simultaneously fictive and biological. Fictive because they were invented in society by virtue of function, which in the tribe associates back to the vulnerability of the womb especially as it bears and nurtures the child (biological aspect of gender energies). As society evolved from one that is nomadic and dependent on nature to one that is invasive, built on the notion of productivity through capitalism, gender became side tracked a little bit. While wombs remain necessary to produce populations of laborers, the top-tier unicorns and innovators tended to be men simply because they were launched into societal networks that allowed them to be this productive (schools and workplaces dominated by gender as extensions of the tribal construct). When the social mainframes were disrupted to allow women to compete, there came the realization that the corporate setting like Wall Street does not discriminate by genitalia but by dominance and competence. But women have always been competent. For instance, the wives of pioneers played massive but hidden roles in shapping settlements. Feminism is recognizing those roles ----revealing them with gratitude rather then relegating them as unseen unpaid labor. Further, feminism is allowing any one to make any choice they will. For instance, feminism is not judging the man who chooses to nurture if that is what resonates in their being.

But as it is with decolonization, feminism can also be a crude process. Some think hating and othering is an antidote to internalized abuse which is understandable (patriarchy requires a lot of work to be uprooted) though I don't quite agree that to hate is the only solution. A more effective antidote to me is recognizing one's own value and one's own power regardless of gender or role. To recognize and internalize empowerment also paradoxically comes with humility and grace. The truly empowered, in my view, does not seek to divide and conquer, it remains steadfast across labels and classifications.

Thus, regardless of man or woman or whatsover one chooses to be, the path forward is not to conquer divisions but to heal them. It is about lending a hand rather than consuming another. I truly believe cooperation and diversity are two of the most underrated worldviews today. All genders are needed in society. A diverse ecosystem is a healthy ecosystem, and I believe so it shall be in society. Patriarchy is akin to homogeneity to me.
 
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