Men and women are different. And that's okay | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Men and women are different. And that's okay

A bunch of victims and pussies who live in a fake reality where the worst shit happens everyday, and the opposite gender is the reason for all their problems.
Women fling to successful men like flies to shit.

I don't like hearing men complain about their lack of success with women when they aren't willing to put in the work of becoming successful, dressing well, and building muscle.
 
I'm making a point to everyone. I'm not speaking to you per se.
YOU WERE TALKING SPECIFICALLY TO ME

okay

Even though you didn't quote me or anything, I have decided this is what I think and and going to now attempt to impose my view on you with belligerency.

Hopefully, if I hammer hard enough and frequently enough, you'll just give up resisting. Also, the more people I convince of my point and then suggest they hammer you, perhaps the pressure will eventually force you to feign a different belief to save face.

Oh yeah and I'm VERY ANGRY and VERY INJURED by all of this and this is directly your responsibility to solve, I have absolutely no responsibility for my own emotional state. How could that be possible? After all we are only reacting to the world, it's not like we have any ability to act. That's crazy talk.
 
COME ON BRO.
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YOU WERE TALKING SPECIFICALLY TO ME

okay

Even though you didn't quote me or anything, I have decided this is what I think and and going to now attempt to impose my view on you with belligerency.

Hopefully, if I hammer hard enough and frequently enough, you'll just give up resisting. Also, the more people I convince of my point and then suggest they hammer you, perhaps the pressure will eventually force you to feign a different belief to save face.

Oh yeah and I'm VERY ANGRY and VERY INJURED by all of this and this is directly your responsibility to solve, I have absolutely no responsibility for my own emotional state. How could that be possible? After all we are only reacting to the world, it's not like we have any ability to act. That's crazy talk.
I agree with everything you said
 
Men and women are different.

But the lines are more blurred than they used to be.

Socially wise men and woman can both take traditional roles, such as me and the wife, but at the same time if they want to be free from historical constraints they are free to be so.

Biologically again men and women are different but there are more factors in play these days, including members of the Trans community so it is more complicated than it used to be.

Everything doesn't fit in the neat boxes we constructed several centuries ago because life and society is like a biological organism. It evolves. We can't limit today's thinking or actions by yesterday's beliefs or decisions.

That said, my wife and I are proof you can live the traditional life if you choose. And everyone else can live their lives as they see fit too.

We all just need to understand and respect the differing opinions without conflict. Talk it out. Never assume malice where lack of knowledge is equally likely.

Extremists are everywhere. Its why fairminded people need to come together and disavow people who seek to divide us to gain power over one group, be it men, women, a race, a religion, a political ideology etc. rather than unite us.
 
There is something profoundly beautiful between men and women. I always admired the masculine traits that men carry themselves, and the profound beauty that women carry through their femininity. And in some cases, there are some women that carry more masculine traits, and men have more feminine traits. It’s a deeply and profound thing I’ve observed throughout my almost-25 years here. Each person, no matter what gender, is different. I absolutely love it.

I think once there is a full acceptance that men and women are indeed different, there will be this sense of deep understanding with one another and hopefully more respect and love. Just this deeper acceptance and appreciation on both differences and seeing the wonderful things in each other in all aspects to life, including romance and sex.

Myself, I’m trying to embrace more of my femininity and beauty on being a woman. Embracing my emotional and nurturing side, and my grace and gentleness. But I also would like to hone on the amazing aspects of my masculinity too in terms of being rational and have high motivation to get things done and efficiently.
 
There is something profoundly beautiful between men and women. I always admired the masculine traits that men carry themselves, and the profound beauty that women carry through their femininity. And in some cases, there are some women that carry more masculine traits, and men have more feminine traits. It’s a deeply and profound thing I’ve observed throughout my almost-25 years here. Each person, no matter what gender, is different. I absolutely love it.

I think once there is a full acceptance that men and women are indeed different, there will be this sense of deep understanding with one another and hopefully more respect and love. Just this deeper acceptance and appreciation on both differences and seeing the wonderful things in each other in all aspects to life, including romance and sex.

Myself, I’m trying to embrace more of my femininity and beauty on being a woman. Embracing my emotional and nurturing side, and my grace and gentleness. But I also would like to hone on the amazing aspects of my masculinity too in terms of being rational and have high motivation to get things done and efficiently.
I completely agree, Jenny. You're reading my mind.
 
I am not sure why this is such a controversial statement in this day and age. There are obvious biological differences and we are often so busy trying to deny them that it hurts people.

This issue has a lot of facets.

Firstly, yes, there are biological differences between men and women. However, the extent of those biological differences has come into question. Scientifically, we're beginning to appreciate more and more that the way in which biological human sexuality influences the skills, behaviors, and abilities of is not easily understood or abstracted. As we become more advanced, our understanding of the sexes becomes increasingly complex. It contradicts the black and white model we developed in the past.

We come from a day and age where it was believed that men and women were, essentially, wildly different from one another.
The gender roles of the past have been heavily dramatized because they were based on the fundamental belief that males and females are opposites, and, also, not equal. That philosophy stems mainly from religion and the patriarchy. As a consequence of these fundamental beliefs, as mass manufacturing dominated the market, and materialism really started to take hold, toys and clothes for boys and girls became increasingly gender-dramatized.

There's a couple of ways to observe this cultural evolution. Some of the best, in my opinion, are to check out the evolution of fashion, toys, and the differences between marketing generations (like Generation X, and Millennials). In fashion, Marilyn Monroe used to be the standard of beauty. That standard was soon replaced by models like Twiggy (an androgynous supermodel), and Gia Carangi (a supermodel of the Heroin Chic movement). Even today, androgyny and Heroin Chic are still influencing our standards of beauty. On the male side of things, you had body builders like Arnold Schwarzneggar. These extreme standards for male and female beauty soon became the "status quo" through media marketing. The irony is that many of these people were not necessarily attractive in person (unlike Marilyn Monroe), but it was their unrealistic and extreme appearance that made them stand out, and therefore made them more marketable, which is really how the "supermodel" was made.

When you look at the way toys and clothes for kids evolved, you'll notice that not that long ago, it was common to dress young male and female children similarly. Children also generally played with the same toys. It wasn't until children started to get slightly older, and their hormones started to influence their biological structure, that they were increasingly treated according to their gender role. However, after mass marketing and materialism really took hold in our culture, we started dressing boys and girls in overly-gendered clothing and grooming them with our speech and behaviors at a much earlier age...and in a very unrealistic way. Dressing girl children like princesses and boy children like superheroes, for instance. Boys played video games and legos, and girls played with barbie dolls and easy bake ovens.

To wrap this all up, if you look at our recent history, you notice a trend. Genderization becoming increasingly extreme. Gender roles becoming increasingly black and white, and more importantly, increasingly unrealistic and unattainable. Eventually, this led to a sort of "era" in US television and media where the female sex was increasingly regarded as stupid, weak, and incompetent. So much so, that it became a bit of an infamous running joke in male-orientated advertisements. There's a lot of jokes, for instance, about how women can't drive, or about how women might burn the house down because they're too dumb to use an appliance properly. Playing dumb became attractive. The "ideal woman" started to become one that was highly superficial, extremely ditsy and uneducated, sickeningly people-pleasing, and illogical.

Eventually, technology outstripped the role of the "homemaker". With TV dinners and vacuums, and other things that made it easier to manage house and home, the role of the mother became increasingly undervalued and unappreciated, and women began adopted more and more jobs outside of the home. As a consequence, there was no longer an invisible wall between the genders, and men and women had to develop more of a mutual respect and ability to work together than had ever been required of them before.

On the male side of things, traits that traditionally defined the male sex, like strength, slowly became outdated and unnecessary due to the evolution of our technology. At this point, the advantages males have due to sexual dimorphism are no longer necessary for survival, and in many cases, can be disadvantageous to thriving in modern society. I think this might be one reason why males may be becoming increasingly less masculine. Masculinity is just not necessary in the same way as it used to be.

So that brings us to where we are today. Males and females are now having to work together in ways that, historically, we never really had to, and our culture, patriarchy, and understanding of gender norms is still struggling to evolve to accommodate that chance. Additionally, we've evolved beyond the necessity of masculine traits - strength, aggression, and so forth. So now, not only are these traits less valued and less sought after, and our male beauty standards have become much more feminine, but they are often viewed as disadvantageous because many of the negative aspects of testosterone are more relevant now, than ever, due to the male/female workforce integration.

So, to answer your question...you asked why we're not allowed to talk about gender differences. My answer to that, in my personal opinion, is that people aren't ready to "go there" right now, because our culture is in a period of rapid, quite uncomfortable change. Women are extremely sensitive these days about their recent historical gender roles and the way their sex has been regarded by men (as stupid, weak, and essentially useless for everything except making sandwiches and birthing babies). Conversely, men are extremely sensitive to what they see (quite accurately) as an attack on their personal masculinity, and on "what it means to be a man" (the male gender role). There is a massive male struggle at the moment between modernized men and those still beholding to traditional male stereotypes. Everyone is on edge, and everyone is defensive. Sexism is ridiculously rampant. People are frustrated enough to strangle one another.

Times are changing. Every time, throughout history, whenever humans have been forced to rapidly change their culture, it's been very stressful. Some people adapt quickly, others take a very long time, and some will hold on to traditional gender norms until their dying breath. These disparate opinions cause a great deal of strife.

Someday in the not too distant future, the outdated mindset will die off, and what you will be left with is a culture where men are far less masculine and women feel far more secure in their gender. When we learn to be less sexist is and racist, we'll return to issues regarding the biological differences between males and females, and various races. We'll have to, if we're to make scientific advancements in medicine. Much of western medicine was made exclusively off of studies of white males. I seriously doubt that the liberal agenda to silence this kind of distinction will actually play out in the long run. It's just a symptom of the underlying cultural issue at the moment.
 
Someday in the not too distant future, the outdated mindset will die off, and what you will be left with is a culture where men are far less masculine and women feel far more secure in their gender.
Masculinity doesn't seem to be a disadvantage... I'm not sure where you're getting that.

If you adopted a neoliberal narrative, I'm sure you could argue quite effectively that 'masculine' traits are still being selected for in the corporate world and any other competitive environment.

And in any case, under your schema women would become more androgynous, too. It's not just 'masculinity' that would apparently be unnecessary, but gender dimorphism, since everybody now faces the same expectations with very few exceptions.*

*Under the law and similar institutional environments, that is. Everywhere else, gender expectations are still very much in place, I think.
 
I am not sure why this is such a controversial statement in this day and age. There are obvious biological differences and we are often so busy trying to deny them that it hurts people.

Not all men are the same.
Not all women are the same.

Both have variance.

But Im frequently having these conversations with my male friends who are terrified.

One of my friends recently went on a no sex no masturbating challenge from his girlfriend and he was saying how difficult it was for him to control himself when he was around her, that he was almost afraid he could rape her. The thing is; he wouldn't. He didn't mean that. What he is talking about is how strong the uncontrolled male sex drive can be. Testosterone is powerful shit and women don't know what that feels like. Although I don't have a hormonal imbalance persay, my levels of T and other associated male sex hormones were on the higher range which makes me less able to relate to women who have very high female sex hormones.

Everyone has different levels and they effect everyone differently, but it frustrates me that as a society we're not allowed to talk about scientific facts in a calm manner. Any validation of legitimate problems men may have is often compared to rape culture. On the opposite extreme, women who suffer severe moodswings and pain due to our sexual reproductive cycle are seen then as the "weaker sex" when, if those kind of crazy hormone shifts happened to a man, he would behave the same exact way.

I really want to talk about this, about how we're different and that it's okay. It doesn't mean we subscribe to societal culture based stereotypes. But we do need to understand basic human biology. It's the lack of nuance in these conversations, the lack of respect for diversity within the sexes itself, that leads to generalizations. Not all men have the same level of hormones therefore they don't all feel the same way. This applies to women too.

Discuss

People know this, it's just a small minority that somehow gain validity to their claims. The narrative of a fallacy is pushed in repetition. It's another illusion of the propaganda machine. Testosterone makes you feel powerful it is an essential tool for survival and hunting. Estrogen creates more empathy and compassion to care for the vulnerable. We've inherited these roles and who are we to think we have the power to change the forces of nature? I am all for subjective thinking feeling however for me to say something like "I ought stop the wind because it's clearly an illusion" would show signs of insanity which is as far as I can tell the same concept as these false narratives.

Testosterone is fearful to women but on the same token they're excited by it. On a deeper level they know that's what they want around them as a security policy. As a male I know I am pleased with a women who has high levels of estrogen or femininity. this is a security policy against the neglect of children. These are somewhat generalized but I see the confusion regarding roles of the household. It doesn't make anybody weaker or stronger it makes us collaborators. The selfish notion that we should somehow be better or worse than one another while working collectively, that's the problem. These radical ideas are being pushed from an individualistic view point when the reality is it's a collective issue. They don't even have a solid foundation to begin with. It's all a ruse to control the narrative so the population is easily controlled and they have a small minority (useful idiots) to do it. Creating the illusion will divide people, keeping them from collaborating on things that actually have a valid claim. For example "Why are both parents working and why is my child being raised by the state?"

Keeping people in the cycle of bullshit.