Killing US Citizens seen as Terrorists | INFJ Forum

Killing US Citizens seen as Terrorists

Nixie

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Is it legal for the federal government to kill a U.S. citizen overseas, someone who has never been charged or convicted of a crime? Civil liberties groups are condemning the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, but many legal scholars say it is justified.

No U.S. court has ever weighed in on the question, because judges consider these sorts of issues exclusively matters for the president.


Anwar al-Awlaki's father, Nasser, with the help of the ACLU, sued President Barack Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and CIA Director Leon Panetta a year ago, when it became clear that the U.S. was targeting the younger al-Awlaki. But U.S. District Judge John Bates
threw the case out, ruling that federal courts were in no position to evaluate whether someone was a terrorist whose activities threatened national security and against whom the use of deadly force could be justified.

"This court recognizes the somewhat unsettling nature of its conclusion -- that there are circumstances in which the executive's unilateral decision to kill a U.S. citizen overseas is 'constitutionally committed to the political branches' and judicially unreviewable," Bates said, quoting an earlier decision on a similar issue.


The ACLU lawyer who handled the case, Jameel Jaffer, said Friday that the U.S. program that targeted al-Awlaki was a violation of both U.S. and international law.


"The government's authority to use lethal force against its own citizens should be limited to circumstances in which the threat to life is concrete, specific and imminent. It is a mistake to invest the president, any president, with the unreviewable power to kill any American whom he deems to present a threat to the country," Jaffer said.


President Obama says the killing of radical, American-born cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki in Yemen is a "major blow to al-Qaida's most active operational affiliate."


But Kenneth Anderson, an international law scholar at American University's Washington College of Law, said U.S. citizens who take up arms with an enemy force have been considered legitimate targets through two world wars, even if they are outside what is traditionally considered the battlefield.


"Where hostiles go, there is the possibility of hostilities. The U.S. has never accepted the proposition that if you leave the active battlefield, suddenly you are no longer targetable," Anderson said.


In early 2010, the director of national intelligence, Dennis Blair, told a congressional hearing that the U.S. was prepared to kill Americans affiliated with al-Qaida, without mentioning al-Awlaki by name.


"If we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that," by which he meant authority from the executive branch, not the courts.


Blair said the military and intelligence agencies had authority to kill U.S. citizens abroad who were engaged in terrorism if their activities threatened Americans. Since then, U.S. officials have said that al-Awlaki's role in al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) had shifted from propagandist to operational tactician and strategist.


The State Department's senior legal adviser, Harold Koh, plainly stated last year the Obama administration's view that it had authority to undertake drone attacks in countries where al-Qaida operatives were located.


"The U.S. is in armed conflict with al-Qaida as well as the Taliban and associated forces in response to the horrific acts of 9-11 and may use force consistent with its right to self-defense under international law," Koh said in a speech to a Washington legal symposium.


Though he did not specifically address the issue of targeting Americans, many legal scholars believe his speech was an implicit statement that U.S. citizens could be legitimate targets.


One of al-Qaida's most influential leaders - Anwar al-Awlaki - has been killed, according to officials in the United States and Yemen. Authorities have confirmed that the radical Islamist cleric died in an airstrike this morning in Northern Yemen. ITN's Sejal Karia reports.


Robert Chesney, an expert on international law at the University of Texas School of Law, concluded in a recent law review article that al-Awlaki could be legally killed "if he is in fact an operational leader within AQAP, as this role would render him a functional combatant in an organized armed group."


Anderson, of American University's law school, said it's important to note that al-Awlaki was not targeted because of his role as an al-Qaida propagandist.


"The U.S. is not justifying this on the basis that it's going after him for incitement. He was being targeted because he had gone operational," Anderson said, adding that he believed the killing was entirely legal.


"My view of this targeted killing is straightforwardly, congratulations, Mr. President," he said.
 
Interesting conversation around this topic I would think.
Expanding governmental/presidential authority
The only defined parameter is "being a terrorist"--where does this definition begin and end
What about our vaunted ideals of a "fair trial" and evidence to support a claim?

The applications to known radical terrorist groups is relatively easily seen as a preventive measure but what if they decide to broaden their persepective of "terrorism" and who is a "terrorist"?
 
I was curious if we would start using this tactic more against mobsters and people involved with cartels. I don't see why terrorism is the only threat where deadly force in lieu of a trial is necessary.
 
I was curious if we would start using this tactic more against mobsters and people involved with cartels. I don't see why terrorism is the only threat where deadly force in lieu of a trial is necessary.

Yea, my beliefs lie more along the "sure you can trust the government, ask an Indian" train of thought..
 
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Yea, my beliefs lie more along the "sure you can trust the government, ask an Indian" train of thought..

I don't really understand the concern about terrorism anyway. It's one of many threats that confront us and one of the less deadly ones.
 
Terrorism is a mindset.
 
No government is to be trusted, of course. None have the interest of the people at heart. They just want money and votes....
 
The man was thrown our way as a herringbone in a power struggle. We did them a favor taking him out.
 
This is one of those subjects where I can easily see both sides. However, not that anyone REALLY cares, I have to weigh in on the side of Obama. The man of his own free will exited American land and culture, and for all practical purposes, joined Al Qaeda, an enemy seeking to destroy us. Not only is it constitutional, but I would argue that such an act of self defense is demanded.
 
I really don't see how his citizenship status is relevant here, at least not in any way that works in his defense. (Being a citizen would make us able to charge him with treason, which we couldn't do for foreigners.) When speaking of the right to a fair trial, the U.S. Constitution uses the term person or the accused rather than citizen. If this were a civil suit then his citizenship would be important in determining what court has original jurisdiction (a foreign citizen could take the case straight to the Supreme Court), but for criminal matters that is not relevant.

Article I section 9 allows the suspension of the privilege of habeas corpus "when in Cases or Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." The 5th amendment makes an exception for the requirement of a grand jury indictment "in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger." It seems reasonable to assume that those actively in military service against the US would not legally require trials, whether they are citizens or not.
 
I'm mainly concerned with transparency on who can go on this "kill list". I understand the necessity in targeting enemy aggressors beyond the battlefield, whether they are citizens or not, but this should not, in general, be unreviewable by the court system.
 
No government is to be trusted, of course. None have the interest of the people at heart. They just want money and votes....

I believe it is a mistake to speak of "government" as if it were a conscious (or sentient) entity. I think it is more accurately and usefully understood as a maelstrom of thousands (if not millions in some nations) of competing interests, egos, and cliques, wherein individuals, groups and sub-groups pursue power and influence. Seen this way, it would be, essentially, naive to expect government to behave consistently, coherently, and logically. At different times in a nation's history, its government may exhibit some symptoms of wisdom and brilliance, but this is rare.
 
The government is a system. When a person takes office, even one so powerful as that of the President, they are still operating within the dictates of the system. In our modern system of government, actions tend to be sanctioned or not sanctioned by the media backlash. In this specific instance, the assassination was, more or less, justified by American fears of terrorism, ensuring that there would be little or no backlash.
 
It is definitely within the power of the U.S. government to kill this guy. Our government is worthless if it can't defend us from people who do stuff like this.
 
Yes. I agree that there is reason for "concern" and perhaps even "action". The rationale and authority that enabled the action to take place is what scares me. What if you belonged to an organization that became powerful politically and began to have a huge number of followers. What if a concerted effort was made to paint your philosophy in a certain way and your group was labled "terrorist"? What if you actively and vocally criticized the government and were considered a "threat"? Many times we give up our freedoms without realizing we have done so. Of course this action seems very reasonable and everyone feels justified and content with what happened--we cannot let go of our right to KNOW without letting go of our right to STOP something if we don't agree with the action--I am not speaking as individuals rights but as society's rights/beliefs.