It’s not MY debt.

[Skarekrow]

So I was listening to some ideas about the future of our society and one of them that was floating about was the idea of the younger generations (Gen-X and below) will eventually tell the government and banks that the national debt (which is impossible to pay off I might add) is no longer valid in their eyes, to consider it null and void and they will just have to eat it.

I for one support this idea and here is why I do -
It unfairly benefits certain “secure” members of society at the expense of those most vulnerable.
(I have serious issues with things I deem - “unfair”)

What do you think about reseting the debts of countries around the world and just telling the banks to go take a running leap into traffic?

Here’s a good short article with some good facts-

Wow, so it looks like we have a budget deal in Washington.
A debt ceiling and spending crisis has been averted.
It’s good news.

But let’s all calm down.
It’s only temporary.

The agreement does not address the long-term fiscal problems we have.
Problems that were mostly created by none other than the “baby boomer” generation.

Yeah, you know who you are.

You’re tanned and healthy and living way past average life expectancy.
You’ve got a defined benefit pension plan from a large company or government that was created years ago when people didn’t understand how horribly these plans can go wrong and now can’t afford to meet its liabilities, but you don’t care as long as you get your check which you don’t really need anyway.

And your social security check.
And your Medicare reimbursement check.

You once hated the government.
You smoked pot and protested against Vietnam and President Nixon.

That was a long, long time ago.

Life has been good for you.
You’re a baby boomer.

You were born between 1946 and the early 1960’s.
You had Woodstock and the Stones in the ’60s, discos and coke in the ’70s, Wall Street in the ’80s, Bill Clinton in the ’90s and now you’re retiring to Arizona and Florida on the backs of your stressed-out kids whose own children stay at home with them into their 20s because they have no jobs.

Tom Brokaw once wrote a book about the greatest generation, those brave people who survived the depression and fought in World War II.
Unfortunately that great generation spawned a generation of narcissists: the baby boomers.

The boomers have created liabilities that will take generations to pay off.
Our national debt is now at around $17 trillion, larger for the first time in recent history than the size of our entire economy.

And it’s projected to continue to significantly grow over the next few decades unless something dramatic is done to reduce it.
Boomers don’t like to talk about fiscal responsibility or living within their means.

They like their credit cards and government secured mortgages on overvalued properties.
They enjoy their malls and their cars and their houses and as long as someone’s willing to lend them the money to buy this stuff they don’t seem to care much about how it will be one day paid.

They still represent an enormous voting block and have no intention to have this lifestyle threatened.
This is the real reason Washington can’t create a long-term deficit reduction plan.

The boomers love their safety nets.

These safety nets were created over the past few decades by boomers and for boomers, with little regard to the future.
One of the major reasons our national debt is so high is because 40 percent of our government’s spending goes to some type of insurance: social insurance, retirement, health benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

These systems are bankrupt.
But they’re needed to pay for the boomers’ healthcare and pension plans.

People that were born after 1965 are working hard to make sure that the boomer generation gets their retirement and disability paid for by the government. But it’s still not enough.

So our government has to borrow and print money.
And our debts balloon.

Who will pay these debts?
Ah, who cares says the boomers.

Not my problem.


They are the source of one of the biggest problems with Obamacare.
Whether you support the Affordable Care Act or not (and I think there are lots of great things about it), one undeniable fact is that the cost of this new system is being put squarely on the shoulders of the young.

People in their 20s need less health care than the boomers in their 60s and 70s.
This is not only because younger people today have healthier lifestyles but because many boomers spent most of their young lives smoking, drinking sugary sodas and engaging in risky, unprotected sex.

There are 34 million mostly young and uninsured people who will be required on January 1, 2014, to pay for health insurance just so the boomers can take advantage of the added benefits that health insurance companies have to now legally provide.

They are, thank God, the last reminders of our racist, homophobic, sexist past.
When you look at those “white only” diners and drinking fountains in those photos from the 1960s you just can’t believe it.

Or how women were treated.
And gays.

But many of our beloved boomers were teenagers back then, living with parents who watched Ozzie and Harriet and were raised to believe that people who weren’t white weren’t to be trusted, women were meant to stay at home, and gays were sinners.

Over time, these attitudes have changed, mainly because people in their 20s and 30s are smarter, better educated and more open-minded.
Unfortunately, and although we now have a black President, the last remnants of the boomer generation who still wield power in their churches and companies are doing their best to keep women out of the corporate suite, protest against gay marriage and fight immigration reform.

We’re scrambling to fix the environment because of their excesses.
For years, and despite warnings, the boomers refused to recycle and ran companies that spewed ozone-destroying chemicals into the air.
There are countless plots of land that are unusable because of chemicals and pesticides dumped by this generation.

I’m no environmentalist, but even I have to shake my head at the destruction laid upon the planet over the past 40 years alone: decimated forests, extinct species, smog filled skies, islands of plastic floating in the ocean.

Only recently are steps being taken by younger generations to attempt to reverse this trend.
The good news is that the baby boomer generation is quickly getting older.

Ten thousand boomers are retiring each day.
We can’t ship them all off to an island, unfortunately.

But I’m optimistic that the next generation of leaders will not make the same mistakes.
Governments will take care of people who are truly needy — not just because they turned 65 and have a car payment — and this will help fix our deficit problems.

Racism will continue to decline as the world becomes smaller and more social.
Our environment will improve because kids in elementary school are being taught to care about the planet.

Ultimately, these generations will fix the problems that the boomers created.
And we can soon bid farewell to that horrible generation.

Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/news/2013/12/13/baby-boomers-worst-generation/#IGFPMavUIwMbclpw.99

I am personally tired of seeing all the bullshit those in power are creating day to day…and it’s all to be paid for later down the road by us or our kids.
Fuck that.
I will do everything within my power to take the power away from corporate interests and put people first over profits like it once was (strangely America had the years of most growth during that time).
Why did you have to privatize everything you assholes? Now a lot of folks cannot afford some of the basic things in this country.
Then you have the gall to try and cut Food Stamp programs because you think this is a nation of entitled takers.
HAhahahahaha! Look at yourselves Baby Boomers…you destroyed it all.
You shipped the jobs overseas and replaced them with low-paying jobs that barely keep them afloat.
Don’t even me started on what you have done to Education…especially a college education. Thanks.
I for one think you should take your debt and shove it.

 

[Skarekrow]

 

[Kgal]

I agree. There should be debt forgiveness as it's called and the big banks will just have to get over themselves. The whole banking system here in the US is all a damn pyramid scheme scam anyway....

 

[Skarekrow]

I agree. There should be debt forgiveness as it's called and the big banks will just have to get over themselves. The whole banking system here in the US is all a damn pyramid scheme scam anyway....

I agree 100%.
I think it’s time we exposed Congress as in the pockets of the corporate special interests…and they are now this way by default due to our corrupt and farce of a election system. It’s time we cut off the billions and billions of dollars in tax breaks given to companies who make billions and billions in profits.
And go after those with offshore bank accounts like Mitt Romney.
It’s time we restored pension plans instead of these fucking 401-k403-b blah blah garbage.
It’s time we taxed the rich like they were meant to be taxed and were being taxed tied to the times of the most social and economic growth in the US!
It’s time we erased the student debt in America.
It’s time we paid the Deans of those Universities a NORMAL salary. And the coaches of those football teams should make even less IMO.
It’s time we reformed the way we vote in the US so that an individual’s vote counts just as much as one of the Koch Brothers…right now, that is certainly not the case.
Right now, your vote is nothing…if they don’t like it, they find way after way to disenfranchise the voter. Redistricting…changing voting requirements that cause undue hardship on some voters (usually the one’s they don’t want voting anyhow…go figure?).
It’s time we deescalated and demilitarize those areas of the world where we have fucked with local politics for decades.
It’s time we invested in education here in the US…time we focused on lifting people out of poverty…because we have the resources to do it….but we let greed plain and simple stop us.
Sad.

 

[Eventhorizon]

So I was listening to some ideas about the future of our society and one of them that was floating about was the idea of the younger generations (Gen-X and below) will eventually tell the government and banks that the national debt (which is impossible to pay off I might add) is no longer valid in their eyes, to consider it null and void and they will just have to eat it.

I for one support this idea and here is why I do -
It unfairly benefits certain “secure” members of society at the expense of those most vulnerable.
(I have serious issues with things I deem - “unfair”)

What do you think about reseting the debts of countries around the world and just telling the banks to go take a running leap into traffic?

Here’s a good short article with some good facts-




I am personally tired of seeing all the bullshit those in power are creating day to day…and it’s all to be paid for later down the road by us or our kids.
Fuck that.
I will do everything within my power to take the power away from corporate interests and put people first over profits like it once was (strangely America had the years of most growth during that time).
Why did you have to privatize everything you assholes? Now a lot of folks cannot afford some of the basic things in this country.
Then you have the gall to try and cut Food Stamp programs because you think this is a nation of entitled takers.
HAhahahahaha! Look at yourselves Baby Boomers…you destroyed it all.
You shipped the jobs overseas and replaced them with low-paying jobs that barely keep them afloat.
Don’t even me started on what you have done to Education…especially a college education. Thanks.
I for one think you should take your debt and shove it.

It would take a complete restructure and since most people have no idea how to do it or the consequences I do not see it as a real possibility of ever happening.

There is one way of moving past capitalism into a Star Trek like world but it cant and it wont happen just by "resetting" everything. It is possible but there are a series of things that must be worked toward and achieved over time. Some of the items that will make this possible do not exist yet.

What has to happen and what people must fight for is keeping special interests out of the equation IE oil companies telling the government how it needs to act etc...

 

[SpecialEdition]

As far as I am aware there has only ever been one president who was able to pay off the debt in full. I have read about other countries who refused to borrow from each other and it ended up putting them into a famine.

I think the idea of canceling debts is very nice and feely, but I think that there are a lot of very deep, intricate details that go into a world economy and debts and loans are just a fraction of it.

I believe debt has more to do about food, medicine, oil, etc than it does about throwing money around. Unfortunately for the USA a lot of it is war driven and the people feel the consequences of that. But otherwise, money is exchanged heavily worldwide for a lot of things and even if debts were canceled I cannot see how the world would not just accumulate it again. I think THAT is the more important aspect to consider.

But I do agree that there should be a cap-out where people no longer become responsible. Perhaps each person only has to pay within a certain date range and once that date range expires, so does their obligation to pay. I would imagine that not all debt is strictly the result of frivolity and war but I know most of it is. So where do you draw the line?

 

[myself]

we don't have to live in a world steeped in debt!

the system we are living in is based on illusion

and yet this 'debt' has enslaved all of humanity

the problem is how we continue to allow ourselves to be used.

it wasn't always this way, and it does not need to continue on this way.

it's really not so complicated.

we must have a year of jubilee.

jubilee is our emancipation and restoration, all debts cleared.

this used to happen every 50 years in times of old.

there is no reason why we can't do it today.

the enemy of humanity wants to keep us suppressed and enslaved to debt.
we have to see that the solution will only come from us, we must emancipate ourselves.

this is our time, we can actually do something about the world we live in.

i think this is one of the most important discussions to have right now...

this current money system/usury/debt we have supported is a total scam.

the destruction we have supported is not sustainable... its all about money... people getting what they can at the expense of others.

the scarcity/fear based mindset keeps this madness going.

our path out of this might not be easy, but we can't continue on destroying the planet...

our survival depends on changing the way we live. more and more people are waking up to this.

we don't even need a majority of humanity to be awake and aware to change the system, but we can't do it alone.

its important to stay positive, be creative and keep the focus on solutions.

 

[Tin Man]

It's a nice idea, but as Eventhorizon and SpecialEdition already said, it's a lot more complicated than simply wiping away all debt. It would take a huge, world wide collaboration to accomplish such a task. And that's very unlikely in the current era.

 

[Skarekrow]

I have no doubt that it will be extremely difficult to do.
I have no doubt that there will be those who will fight for it and against it as if their lives depended on it.
One side has the resources to fight the people…while the people have the numbers to fight back.
It isn’t just the US I am speaking of….the interview I was listening to was speaking of this in a global way…that it would be like a house of cards…where one country refused to pay the debt of their grandfather’s and were tired of the austerity in place for their whole working lives and so they would stop.
Something needs to change…but I don’t think that the greedy decisions made by the boomers can all just be repealed at the drop of a hat…..it took a couple of decades to get us here and (if we can stay on track) it will take that long to get out of it.

 

[myself]

nothing is too difficult for us to accomplish. it only requires our will.

if we all just agree to believe that this reform is too complex, too deep, too intricate...
we only deny ourselves the power to make a change. we've given up before we've even started.

many people believe the system is too big to change, and that there is nothing for them to do.

i have lived this way myself for many years. it is a life-draining submission of will and power which we freely give, because of our own fears.

this may not speak to everyone, we are all on different paths, with many dreams to fulfill.

whatever it is you face in this life, don't believe any lie that would strip you of your own power.

this life is significant, how else would we develop?

the heart of the issue of this collective crisis is deeply personal, and cuts to the core

it's so much more fun to do something new anyway!

and who doesn't like a challenge?

if you don't believe it's possible to change anything, that is your belief.
if your belief is serving you and those around you well, continue on with it.

if you see the possibility of creating a better world, make a movement toward that.

start slow if you need to.
one breath at a time.

the self-work we do or don't do will inevitably affect the world we inhabit.

<3

 

[wolkenkraetzer]

Congress regularly spends money like a drunken sailor with no regard to tomorrow, and then cries, "Wolf!", pointing to "evil" social welfare or education programs, while giving away the store to corporate interest. The public never fails to ingest the bait.

A pity that we have such a byzantine tax system that favors the wealthy and corporate interests. When workers fail to produce, they are dismissed. If voters insist on sending their local idiots back to Congress over and over, who's really responsible for the situation...?

 

[Skarekrow]

Congress regularly spends money like a drunken sailor with no regard to tomorrow, and then cries, "Wolf!", pointing to "evil" social welfare or education programs, while giving away the store to corporate interest. The public never fails to ingest the bait.

A pity that we have such a byzantine tax system that favors the wealthy and corporate interests. When workers fail to produce, they are dismissed. If voters insist on sending their local idiots back to Congress over and over, who's really responsible for the situation...?

Don’t you just love how the first things to get cut are the social safety nets? Let’s not cut the budget for say….the amount the drug companies gouge us through medicare?
I agree, we need to eliminate corporate welfare…we need an actual progressive tax unlike what we have now….we need to let those banks who are supposedly “too big to fail” - FAIL.
Well, the people certainly hold responsibility to a certain extent for sure.
But take a look at the last election cycle, those who spent the most money won 94% of the time…is that the will of the people?http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2014/11/money-won-on-tuesday-but-rules-of-the-game-changed/
No freakin way…it’s the Koch brothers and the likes of them who are deciding who is elected now.
We have greater inequality than Rome had before it fell.

 

[magister343]

Allowing politicians to forgive all debts on a whim is a recipe for horrible instability. The Roman Empire suffered from such shocks frequently. It would be better to enshrine in the constitution a system like that of the ancient Israelite Year of Jubilee, where general debt forgiveness recurs at predictable intervals. (Incidentally debts which Israelite incurred to each other were forgiven every 7 years. Only debts to and from foreigners had the longer 50 year expiration date.)

 

[Lark]

I just think of the ways that this will be spun to benefit the uber richies and conform to neo-liberalism, to be honest attacking the national debt and suggesting its unpayable has been a libertarian cliche for years, free market libertarian though, and they've advocated a lot of things, these days its mainly a return to gold or silver standards and the end to fiat currencies.

Which, no matter how parsimonious repayment would force any economy to become and curtail government tax and spend policies, would be a much worse arrangement, much more limited.

I think that the developments with Clinton and Blair posed a big problem for the radical right, an apparent new consensus which had changed up their analysis and got smart about trying to move tax burdens and move the centre ground of politics without a lot of the things the left had done in the past which had ensured it would be perpetually in the wilderness, I think they'd realised if a stakeholder scheme made it to maturity or basic income was realised these would be new things, radically effecting the distribution of wealth, and different to the Swedish models of social democracy they were come comfortable with fighting.

So they fucked everything up, in the US they wiped out the surplus Clinton had created, they ran up a massive debt to prevent any ground for movement by future democrat administrations, everything since has been about wrecking, then the wrecking was carried on by their friends in the city too.

 

[Skarekrow]

So this idea doesn’t just carry over into national debts…I can see situations very similar to Greece and the austerity imposed on the people.

What do you feel about student debt as well?
I know I feel swindled when I think of the time I signed those papers making me a debt-slave.
So my parent’s generation (boomers) we able to go and get a university education almost “free” by today’s standards…they could work a part-time minimum wage job, and not only go to school but survive in the world (rent, food, electricity, etc.)
This is because the united states decided after WWII that education should be a priority and so we made it so.
This was the will of the people. I personally don’t feel like I have a voice anymore…not as a citizen or voter…it’s been sold for greed.

 

[Skarekrow]

[video=youtube;gMfCnR9DGuk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=gMfCnR9DGuk[/video]

 

[Kgal]

So this idea doesn’t just carry over into national debts…I can see situations very similar to Greece and the austerity imposed on the people.

What do you feel about student debt as well?
I know I feel swindled when I think of the time I signed those papers making me a debt-slave.
So my parent’s generation (boomers) we able to go and get a university education almost “free” by today’s standards…they could work a part-time minimum wage job, and not only go to school but survive in the world (rent, food, electricity, etc.)
This is because the united states decided after WWII that education should be a priority and so we made it so.
This was the will of the people. I personally don’t feel like I have a voice anymore…not as a citizen or voter…it’s been sold for greed.

ALL student debt should be forgiven....now....now...now!

I have been making payments on mine and I still owe what I did at the beginning. It's as if every payment goes into a black hole never to be seen again. Dang banking swindlers!!! Grrrr....

Yes. Back in the 60' and the early 70's many of my generation were able to attend college for little or nothing. GI's back from Nam were given a full ticket to college as well they should. Back in 1974 I remember working my first full time job in the summer for $2 an hour - saving up for tuition - and plunking down 6 $100 bills to take 21 hours one semester as a freshman. That's all it cost me - $600!!

Imagine my surprise when in 2007 I sign up for the master program to become a social worker and it was $4000 to take 12hrs.... $Four Thousand Dollars for a measley 12 hours!!!!

This month I have not paid my on my student loan even though I'm able. I think I'm rebelling....

Fuck the One Percent....they're the ones sucking us all dry.

 

[Skarekrow]

ALL student debt should be forgiven....now....now...now!

I have been making payments on mine and I still owe what I did at the beginning. It's as if every payment goes into a black hole never to be seen again. Dang banking swindlers!!! Grrrr....

Yes. Back in the 60' and the early 70's many of my generation were able to attend college for little or nothing. GI's back from Nam were given a full ticket to college as well they should. Back in 1974 I remember working my first full time job in the summer for $2 an hour - saving up for tuition - and plunking down 6 $100 bills to take 21 hours one semester as a freshman. That's all it cost me - $600!!

Imagine my surprise when in 2007 I sign up for the master program to become a social worker and it was $4000 to take 12hrs.... $Four Thousand Dollars for a measley 12 hours!!!!

This month I have not paid my on my student loan even though I'm able. I think I'm rebelling....

Fuck the One Percent....they're the ones sucking us all dry.

I strongly believe that within the next decade or two there will be a physical comeuppance and those who are considered the 1% better have a fortified island somewhere because I don’t think there will be anywhere safe for them here in the US, possibly the world.
All these folks like the Koch Brothers, Dick Cheney, Turd-blossom, no matter the political side….the Clinton’s (they were almost broke though my ass) are firmly on societies' mental list matching the list of folks made by the people who had enough in the French Revolution.
Let’ them eat cake.
With those food stamp benefits you just cut?
Well go find a job.
Oh, Besides the one full-time, maybe two jobs some folks have who are paid so little that they STILL qualify for social programs.
Wal-Mart makes a killing from food stamps….many users are their own employees.
And yet they made $17 BILLION in profits last year?
Paying their employees more would bankrupt them surely.
We have destroyed the unions and the power the unions had…the right to unionize that people fought and died for.
The Republicans like Scott Walker all say we should bust the unions….I think we should bust his jaw.

 

[Kgal]

I strongly believe that within the next decade or two there will be a physical comeuppance and those who are considered the 1% better have a fortified island somewhere because I don’t think there will be anywhere safe for them here in the US, possibly the world.
All these folks like the Koch Brothers, Dick Cheney, Turd-blossom, no matter the political side….the Clinton’s (they were almost broke though my ass) are firmly on societies' mental list matching the list of folks made by the people who had enough in the French Revolution.
Let’ them eat cake.
With those food stamp benefits you just cut?
Well go find a job.
Oh, Besides the one full-time, maybe two jobs some folks have who are paid so little that they STILL qualify for social programs.
Wal-Mart makes a killing from food stamps….many users are their own employees.
And yet they made $17 BILLION in profits last year?
Paying their employees more would bankrupt them surely.
We have destroyed the unions and the power the unions had…the right to unionize that people fought and died for.
The Republicans like Scott Walker all say we should bust the unions….I think we should bust his jaw.

Yeh....another friend of mine on facebook was saying the same thing about Unions.

Still...Unions are not the answer. They will not encourage solidarity throughout the working class. They will create an Us vs Them situation and we'll land back in the same frying pan. I grew up during the time they were huge and in power. They really weren't much better as they too acted like bullies at times to their own members. And they were used as bait to help get Reagan elected.

No.... it'll be more like what you originally suggested. The French Revolution on a massive scale where everyone walks off the jobs and sits on the government lawns in every town in every city all across America for days and days and days. I love the idea of everyone holding signs and chanting "Let Them Eat Cake!". Don't you know that would scare the pants off of those fat cowards they call Mayors, Police Chiefs, Governors, and Attorney Generals! Hahahahahaha.... I wonder what the White House would do. They don't have enough soldiers in the National Guard to do a damn thing except ring around Washington DC. I can see it now.... Everyone on high alert. They've all gone to ground like rats jumping ship. Everyone holding their breath to see if Americans start trying to kill them. And all we do is sit and wait....like a great Siege. Factories wind down. No money is flowing. The 1% losing control....

I wonder how much money they would lose if we did that for one whole week....

 

[Skarekrow]

Yeh....another friend of mine on facebook was saying the same thing about Unions.

Still...Unions are not the answer. They will not encourage solidarity throughout the working class. They will create an Us vs Them situation and we'll land back in the same frying pan. I grew up during the time they were huge and in power. They really weren't much better as they too acted like bullies at times to their own members. And they were used as bait to help get Reagan elected.

No.... it'll be more like what you originally suggested. The French Revolution on a massive scale where everyone walks off the jobs and sits on the government lawns in every town in every city all across America for days and days and days. I love the idea of everyone holding signs and chanting "Let Them Eat Cake!". Don't you know that would scare the pants off of those fat cowards they call Mayors, Police Chiefs, Governors, and Attorney Generals! Hahahahahaha.... I wonder what the White House would do. They don't have enough soldiers in the National Guard to do a damn thing except ring around Washington DC. I can see it now.... Everyone on high alert. They've all gone to ground like rats jumping ship. Everyone holding their breath to see if Americans start trying to kill them. And all we do is sit and wait....like a great Siege. Factories wind down. No money is flowing. The 1% losing control....

I wonder how much money they would lose if we did that for one whole week....

I agree that the unions shot themselves in the foot.
Still…I think under the right circumstances and with the right set of regulations (OMG regulations!) in place they could function as they were intended to do.
But yes…I agree…I think we will first see a national walk off day…and it will get some attention but there are still too many people who are too scared to join in solidarity because their pretend “job security” is all they have. If they lose their job, they lose their house, their family, their car, their life…I think it will take something to set the people off.
Like this Cronibus legislation just signed by Congress (though written by a lobbyist for Wall Street) that puts the American taxpayers on the hook for the NEXT Wall Street bailout….good luck collecting THAT money you dumb fucks.
People, will be raiding your McMansion, raping your trophy wife, and jacking your Lambo is what will happen.
People just want to be treated fairly….to have a fair slice of the pie…they are willing to work really hard their whole life for that slice.
But greedy, entitled 1%ers feel that they don’t need to contribute back to the economy…then I say…if you have tax holdings off shore…then you’re out…get the fuck out,
You don’t want to contribute because you feel entitled…too bad.
Bye….don’t let the door hit you on the ass.