ISFP or INTx, lack of empathy

[dianabol]

As I've progressed through the later half of my teens I've noticed a shift in my personality (as most do to some degree, I would assume). I'm a male who tested ISFP last year and now INTP or INTJ. I was very surprised by this change as the types are almost opposites.

I value science, reason and logic over anything. Understanding things, taking in knowledge. Although this would pit me as an INTx, I sometimes find emotion trying to grab a hold of me but I always suppress it because I know from experience that those who let their feelings take over will always be at a disadvantage. I usually understand underlying concepts of things before any of my peers. I'm fluent in three languages at 16. I feel distant from everyone and I have since I was little.

But I'm also artistic and have a great appreciation for aesthetics, as strong as my appreciation for functionality. I always try find a way to make them two go hand in hand. Failing to do this usually makes me frustrated or results in losing interest.

I'll list my ISFP traits and my INTx traits:

ISFP:
artistic
talented drawer
intensely perfectionist
read people easily and accurately
dislike of authority
kind

INTx:
overwhelming desire for knowledge
can with ease take in large amounts of knowledge
value reason before anything
dislike of people who let their emotions control them
dislike of authority
have high expectations of people
ease for mathematics, language
enjoy debates
cynical
irreligious

What do you say? What am I?

Secondly, I'd like to talk about empathy. If my peers are what one would call "normal" in terms of feeling empathy for those they don't know, then I am very far from normal. I have never felt anything but indifference to "tragedies"; the Holocaust, genocide, a madman shoots up an island (close to me), famine strikes Africa, a plane crashes, victims of rape, racism etc.

I've never cried or felt sad over the death of someone. The only person whose death I can imagine would sadden me greatly would be my mother's.

You get the idea. I cannot care about these things and I never have been able to. All I feel is apathy.

More often than not I'll find humor in it, which many consider completely unacceptable causing making me feel even more distant. I usually keep it to myself. However, I have ease understanding and identifying the thoughts of those I can relate to. I genuinely care (and love) my family, and some extent, my friends.

If I am normal, is everyone else just faking it? Candle-lit memorials, Facebook groups, emotional breakdowns, crying - even just saying "that's so sad" when hearing something tragic - all over people they've never met? Maybe it's immaturity, inexperience, media shellshock, a disorder or maybe it's simply part of my personality.

It doesn't bother me but I'd like to get a better understanding of it all.

I appreciate any input.
Thanks

 

[MikeINvalid]

I've noticed that some people use humor in difficult situations to cover up how they really feel, or because they don't know how to process how they really feel. It comes out later, usually after a lot of thought and talking about it on their part.

Do you think this might be a possibility for you?

 

[whytiger]

None of the "ISFP" traits you describe are foreign to INTx's and being intensely perfectionistic is one of the defining traits of all NT's. This is especially NT: "I value science, reason and logic over anything."

At your age, personality isn't really set in stone though so continue to explore what you like to do and why.

 

[this is only temporary]

I've never cried or felt sad over the death of someone. The only person whose death I can imagine would sadden me greatly would be my mother's.

You get the idea. I cannot care about these things and I never have been able to. All I feel is apathy.

Well, you probably haven

 

[technics]

All my ISFP friends are perfectionists with regards to style: their apartments are very well decorated, their outfits are well-chosen, they like design, they have a very cultivated taste. All my INTx friends are perfectionists with regards to theory and ideas: it must be consistent, coherent or rational.

What they - my friends of those types - have in common is that they love things that are new. But the ISFP appreciate it out of Fi, being satisfied out of the nuances of that new and the "flavor" of it. It must have style, it must be "polished". My NT friends hardly care about style, they appreciate the new from a Ti/Te perspective: it must enable them, it must do something new.

So, to simplify it, would you choose a nice design object or the newest tech gadget? Would you study design or engineering? You can't choose both

 

[dianabol]

All my ISFP friends are perfectionists with regards to style: their apartments are very well decorated, their outfits are well-chosen, they like design, they have a very cultivated taste. All my INTx friends are perfectionists with regards to theory and ideas: it must be consistent, coherent or rational.

What they - my friends of those types - have in common is that they love things that are new. But the ISFP appreciate it out of Fi, being satisfied out of the nuances of that new and the "flavor" of it. It must have style, it must be "polished". My NT friends hardly care about style, they appreciate the new from a Ti/Te perspective: it must enable them, it must do something new.

So, to simplify it, would you choose a nice design object or the newest tech gadget? Would you study design or engineering? You can't choose both

Neither design nor engineering interest me as occupations. Out of convenience I would pick design because of my being artistic. Imagining a future apartment, I see something minimalist, symmetrical, aesthetically pleasing, functional, simple and well thought-out.

Polish is as important to me as functionality but as soon as functionality is sacrificed for design it loses value for me.

The human body fascinates me so I want to be a physician, utilizing my people skills, and then specialize in plastic surgery, where I can utilize artistry, perfectionism and still be in a field that involves constant learning and science which is my biggest interest.

I've noticed that some people use humor in difficult situations to cover up how they really feel, or because they don't know how to process how they really feel. It comes out later, usually after a lot of thought and talking about it on their part.

Do you think this might be a possibility for you?

I knew this reply was coming but I don't think it's the case for me. When you're apathetic to something it's easy to lean to either side, and it's just in my personality to enjoy dark humor. I don't feel as if I'm "shielding" myself from my own feelings.

Well, you probably haven’t seen much actual death, have you? Have you ever lost anyone you cared about? More than just a casual acquaintance, distant relation, or someone you heard of on the news? Many people your age haven’t. If you did, or if you had nursed a loved one through a terminal illness, you would feel much more.



Making jokes is one thing, actually enjoying causing pain is another thing entirely. Sometimes it is hard to tell the difference to an outsider so they get upset! Besides, since you are male, someone at some point probably told you to be a man and stop crying, so you did, and now it makes it difficult for you to be sad in public, so you crack a joke.

It sounds like maybe you have experienced some difficulty attaching to many people – I am not sure why this would be. Probably to protect yourself for some reason. It is more difficult for all humans to feel empathy for people we are not attached to, that is completely understandable and common. If that were not the case the world would be a whole lot friendlier and more peaceful. But you said you care about some people and have attachments to certain people; my guess is you’re just fine.

Do you enjoy watching people or animals being hurt? I would say that is a much bigger problem than not feeling as much empathy as you or someone else thinks you should.



No, most people are not faking it when they feel empathy or pain at the sight of suffering. It hurts, literally. But some people overdo it for social reasons or a love of drama or just plain pent-up emotions.



I would guess all of bolded items above. I am not a shrink, but I would guess a certain degree of detachment is not a disorder unless it is really extreme, or unless you actually enjoy causing pain to people or animals. For fun. Think about surgeons or nurses – they have to cause pain sometimes, and they need a certain degree of detachment, or they would not be able to do their jobs.

It is the same for all of us; if we weren’t able to be somewhat detached, we would not be able to function. The pain of the whole world would crush us. But if we had no empathy at all then we’d just cannibalize each other.

The question on enjoying pain is a bit difficult to answer, as the only times I can remember deliberately causing pain has been when I've been able to derive enjoyment out of it. I don't like hurting people's feelings, though. I wouldn't make a person or animal suffer unnecessarily if I have no cause. That would just make me feel bad.

I've definitely had deaths happen in my life; three out of five grandparents are dead. I've had a classmate die. I was the only one who didn't express some form of mourning. I genuinely liked these people, but I couldn't bring myself to faking it - maybe because I wouldn't know how or maybe because it would feel painfully pretentious. Maybe both.

If, say, my mother were to die I would be devastated. I don't feel anything when people I don't genuinely love die, that's only logical, is it not? I would assume most people agree, but these are the same people who I see saddened by things which don't really have anything to do with themselves.


The bolded part resonates with what I see in a great deal of people. I see right through it, feel detached and usually develop contempt for them.


Thanks for the responses.

 

[technics]

Oh, have you done this? http://www.keys2cognition.com/explore.htm

 

[this is only temporary]

I don't feel anything when people I don't genuinely love die, that's only logical, is it not? I would assume most people agree, but these are the same people who I see saddened by things which don't really have anything to do with themselves.

Quite logical! Oh, that just makes you honest, it would be silly to pretend to feel something you don't. But neither would it be logical to assume others feel exactly the way you do, some things bother some people more than other things bother other people. And you can too be an engineer and a designer, some people are, including this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci and other more ordinary people.

I dislike seeing suffering, it genuinely makes me sad and I do feel some grief when people I don't know die, but it is more for their pain and the pain of those they left behind.

 

[dianabol]

Oh, have you done this? http://www.keys2cognition.com/explore.htm

Took it, got ISFP.

 

[technics]

Took it, got ISFP.

Don't take these psychology theories seriously. I'm sure you know that all of this is a self-fulfilling prophecy: If you believe that you are this or that type, the more you will become that type.

My advice to you is to stay open-minded. Try out a lot of things, that is, try out other ways of thinking and perception that you weren't used to. Then if you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, don't do it that often.

If you fall somewhere between ISFP and INTx then that's you. Don't model yourself to any of those types, make your own model and carve out your own space.

 

[Nitesteamer]

It's possible that you are a little bit aspie.

 

[dianabol]

Don't take these psychology theories seriously. I'm sure you know that all of this is a self-fulfilling prophecy: If you believe that you are this or that type, the more you will become that type.

My advice to you is to stay open-minded. Try out a lot of things, that is, try out other ways of thinking and perception that you weren't used to. Then if you like it, keep it. If you don't like it, don't do it that often.

If you fall somewhere between ISFP and INTx then that's you. Don't model yourself to any of those types, make your own model and carve out your own space.

I've noticed the self-fulfilling prophecy thing and I realize that it shouldn't be taken seriously. Thanks for the advice.

I read this on a forum and found it strikingly accurate to my experience.

I have said before that I think that functions manifest themselves differently in different people. Take Se and Fi for example. You have both + and - Se, and + and -Fi. It is in my opinion that +Fi is more similar to -Fe and -Fi is more similar to +Fe than +Fi and -Fi are similar. In the INTjs super-ego block you have +Se and -Fi. +Se is about willpower. It is also about retention of authority and defense stances. +Se is also about deduction of authority. -Se would be viewed as the assertive Se, the offensive Se. -Se could actually be viewed as an INTjs hidden agenda. -Se could be viewed as an INTjs drive to eliminate authority. This is where INTjs gain their ability to attack unfair situations. +Se in the PoLR and -Si in the hidden agenda interact to create the justice impression that INTjs produce. Due to +Se being the PoLR in an INTj, an INTj naturally lacks willpower. INTjs also lack the ability to retaliate. A large portion of the socionics fanbase misinterprets an INTjs PoLR. Many people inferred that INTjs have some elements of -Se in their PoLR. -Fi in the Super-Ego block is very weak also. -Fi could be viewed as accessibility to negative emotions. Often, many INTjs find themselves out of place at funerals or places in which vile acts have taken place. For instance, if a girl were to get raped, an INTj would find this logically inconsistent with their beliefs, but they would not know how to demonstrate negative emotions towards to act. Many INTjs will actually start to think of themselves as too cold, or they may think that there is something wrong with them for not being able to feel emotions towards inhuman acts committed against other people.

Looked up the super-ego thing for INTJs and it was very much me.

It's possible that you are a little bit aspie.

No. I'm very socially adept and I don't have any aspie characteristics except for the empathy thing, and I do feel empathy for people close to me and try hard not to hurt feelings.

 

[knight in battle]

[MENTION=5154]dianabol[/MENTION]

I am making a very broad-sweep assumption here, but Keirsey claims that ISFPs express themselves overwhelmingly through action. In fact, he claims that Hemingway was one of the few famous ISFPs who succeeded in verbiage. Your long introduction suggests otherwise.

 

[Jill Hives]

I don't think not caring when people you don't directly have a bond with die (such as a student you knew but maybe weren't friends with, or grandparents you might not have known extremely well) is something bad. I think most people put on a sad show for the sake of others, but I think it is an exaggeration of their own actual feelings of the matter. Obviously some people are probably greatly moved and pained by those sorts of things, but I doubt it's as many as you would think.

I loved my grandparents but I mourned fairly little over their deaths. Later on while remembering things I'd get a little misty eyed occasionally, but that's it really. My lab partner in 10th grade committed suicide and I was shocked more than anything. I definitely thought the situation was sad, but it did not depress me or deeply effect me. I did not know him other than doing our school work together.