Is there really a God?

[Peace]

[MENTION=4700]Peace[/MENTION]

At your urging, I read the entirety of the thread. Only one person proposed the argument for 'proving' God and it wasn't [MENTION=1815]Matariki[/MENTION].

Correct. I made a mistake.

 

[Peace]

As for being real vs God is timeless and God's existence is independent from the universe, I have to ask a question first; Did our universe create itself from the inside out or was it the result of an external force? (now this question is dependent on whether or not you believe the universe had a beginning or if its eternal, note; the cause can be anything as this question is not pointing towards the assumption of a divine force)

I am uncertain about the origin of the universe, but given the current state of evidence I would say it is equally probable that the earth began from a Big Bang without a God as that it was created by a God. I see no reason, aside from emotional gratification, for individuals to argue one side over the other. If people were being objective on the issue, then I think most people would be agnostic.

Of course, if I were to ask a Zen Buddhist, they would probably tell me that what is being debated here is perception of how the universe originated, not what actually happened, and that human conception is inherently biased to categorization and there is no way of knowing whether an understanding of the origin of the universe could even lend itself to that cognitive process. In other words the tendency to argue "either/or" on this issue when we are not even sure the ideas are mutually exclusive, is in itself, flawed reasoning.

 

[CindyLou]

This question is similar to "Where do we draw the line?" Sure it is troubling trying to answer such questions. The POINT is not to let these questions disract you from your responsibility to do good and fight evil. I find that in reality, most of us agree on who is a monster, and that it isn't nearly as important a question as it seems at times. The guy with 14 women buried in his back yard is a monster. The guy who enjoys raping little four year old kids is a monster. The guy who flies a plane into a building, killing thousands in the name of jihad is a monster. The guy who sends millions of people to die in gulags is a monster. In fairy tales we make it easy for kids to spot monsters by making them ugly. In real life what you look for is the person who harms others and accepts no responsility for the pain they cause. Like the pedophile who says, "I love little kids!"

You know who wrote a fabulous book on the nature of evil is a psychiatrist named Scott Peck. You might be familiar with his book, THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED. I really have to recommend his book "PEOPLE OF THE LIE" to anyone who thinks that evil doesn' exist.

what a coincidence that book is on it's way to my house right now from Amazon.

 

[Matariki]

I am uncertain about the origin of the universe, but given the current state of evidence I would say it is equally probable that the earth began from a Big Bang without a God as that it was created by a God. I see no reason, aside from emotional gratification, for individuals to argue one side over the other. If people were being objective on the issue, then I think most people would be agnostic.

Of course, if I were to ask a Zen Buddhist, they would probably tell me that what is being debated here is perception of how the universe originated, not what actually happened, and that human conception is inherently biased to categorization and there is no way of knowing whether an understanding of the origin of the universe could even lend itself to that cognitive process. In other words the tendency to argue "either/or" on this issue when we are not even sure the ideas are mutually exclusive, is in itself, flawed reasoning.

So whats your worldview?

 

[Peace]

So whats your worldview?

I am a Secular Humanist.

A good quote to describe it would be, "Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality."

Of course, I have found in my experience that theists tend to view the secular humanist worldview as "self worship" or "just do what feels good" rather than as an existential pursuit in meaning and truth, which is unfortunate but not entirely unexpected coming from a theistic worldview.

As per questions such as the origin of the universe, I consider them in terms of probability. I see no reason why it is more probable to believe that God created the universe than it is to believe the universe emerged from random physical events, or vice versa.

 

[CindyLou]

This forum is refreshing.

 

[LGLPbeliever]

There is of course no way of empirically proving God to be real. I base my belief on a few things that have happened in my life up to this point and also various evidences from Jesus's life and the creation of the universe. For instance, the existence of the universe must first be proven to be finite before any debates on God can even be had. For all we know the universe could be infinitely expanding and retracting on itself, causing multiple big bangs and multiple universes. I forgot the name of this theory. Anyway, as it is, there isn't enough matter in the universe for the universe to ever retract in on itself and cause another big bang and re-beginning of things. The leading scientific idea on the universe happens to be a finite universe involving one big bang. Now we can see that the beginning of existence and the universe requires a creator or god. To disagree with that is to disagree with the basic laws of life. For there to be a sandwich, one must make it first.

The evidence for Jesus is well-founded. Especially because the Dead Sea Scrolls give us proof that the Old Testament was written before Jesus's life. With that in mind it seems that the Old Testament actually predicts Jesus's life before it happens. Many verses in Isiah point to a savior coming and there are a large amount of prophecies about Jesus that he fulfills and also points out that he is fulfilling them as he does it. You would have to be a very good conspiracy theorist to unwind that ball of evidence. Of course there is a good amount more... but I'm sure I've said enough already for anyone who cares to argue or agree.