- MBTI
- INFJ
True, I think I need more time process bigger events like this. I've noticed I tend to take longer to deal with big changes in life in general this seems to be no different.
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Is marriage worth it anymore?
- Thread starter Blind Bandit
- Start date
True, I think I need more time process bigger events like this. I've noticed I tend to take longer to deal with big changes in life in general this seems to be no different.
laurie
Snowblind in Dreamland
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- INFJ
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- 9w1
I'm not for marriage anyway, because of what it stood for (trading of possessions). But the legal system made it worse. I feel bad for all those guys (and occasionally girls) who lost families because of divorce. It's not fair that if you divorce then one parents gets the kids, the house, the money, while the other is stuck with nothing unless it is given to them by their ex-partner (which would just make them feel bad).
Of course, there are choices such as:
- get married and don't get divorce - but not at all foolproof, 'cause you can fall in and out of love with someone quickly (supposedly biological, but who knows?)
- get married mentally, not legally - much better as it means you admit yuor commitment to each other, but the legal system has nothing on you.
- don't get married - it works. Just because you're not married doesn't mean you're not in love (similar to the option above).
I'm sure there are many more too. But if people really want to get married (like it was a childhood dream), then the legal system should be completely and utterly unbiased by gender. It's about how good the parent is, not if they have a womb or not.
Of course, there are choices such as:
- get married and don't get divorce - but not at all foolproof, 'cause you can fall in and out of love with someone quickly (supposedly biological, but who knows?)
- get married mentally, not legally - much better as it means you admit yuor commitment to each other, but the legal system has nothing on you.
- don't get married - it works. Just because you're not married doesn't mean you're not in love (similar to the option above).
I'm sure there are many more too. But if people really want to get married (like it was a childhood dream), then the legal system should be completely and utterly unbiased by gender. It's about how good the parent is, not if they have a womb or not.
Melkor
Madman with a cause
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- INTP
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- >.>
Hm..
My opinion?
Unless you're incredibly religious and beleive that a 'holy union' is the only proper way to express love, then no, I think marriage is utterly useless in itself.
If I loved a person so greatly, I'd want unique, meaningful ways of expressing this on a dail y basis.
I need neither the approval nor the confirmation of God and the government to do so.
My opinion?
Unless you're incredibly religious and beleive that a 'holy union' is the only proper way to express love, then no, I think marriage is utterly useless in itself.
If I loved a person so greatly, I'd want unique, meaningful ways of expressing this on a dail y basis.
I need neither the approval nor the confirmation of God and the government to do so.
- MBTI
- ????
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I can't believe how society pins divorce as being this massive thing that tears up families and destroys lives.
Sorry but my parents divorced with no real animosity at all, it was all agreed with both parties fairly, and I've been able to see my dad regularly every two weeks and still do.
Not saying it should ever get to this point, but if it does it doesn' have to be life destroying. Again it all comes down to marrying the right person.
Oh and call me a traditionalist but I believe in the marriage - kids progression.
Sorry but my parents divorced with no real animosity at all, it was all agreed with both parties fairly, and I've been able to see my dad regularly every two weeks and still do.
Not saying it should ever get to this point, but if it does it doesn' have to be life destroying. Again it all comes down to marrying the right person.
Oh and call me a traditionalist but I believe in the marriage - kids progression.
- MBTI
- INFJ
Then you where damn lucky. My parents divorces where brutal. I witnessed more than one.
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- MBTI
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I know I'm lucky, and they can be brutal. My point is, they don't need to be.
laurie
Snowblind in Dreamland
- MBTI
- INFJ
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Definitely agree. I was shocked when my much older, non-religious sister decided first to get married, then to do it in a church, then to get her first child christened. It makes no sense!
- MBTI
- ENFP
- Enneagram
- 947 sx/sp
Then you seek to meet your own needs the best way you can with the resources available to you in the context of your situaton and in accordance with your values - a process everyone does all the time, married or not. Those needs are your responsibility, no one else's.
In Love, it is essential that you love the person, and not your idea of that person. The latter is a self-serving fantasy.
Perhaps that says more about your parents and their partners than it does marriage, or even divorce?
My sense is those people that have amicable divorces are those people with a desire for one based on their needs. They are considerate of each other because they tend to be considerate in most things.
cheers,
Ian
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 4w5
This is and has for a long time been my nightmare scenario. This article is written from the male's perspective, but the female's perspective can be very bleak as well. Many women go into poverty after divorce, and many do suffer through abusive marriages.
There are significant benefits to marriage, especially for men. It is, I think, what you and the other person make of it. It can be something that you both find very fulfilling, or it can be tedium and agony. This isn't to say that good marriages don't get tedious; of course they do, but how you handle that and other problems that emerge is what makes or breaks the relationship.
There are significant benefits to marriage, especially for men. It is, I think, what you and the other person make of it. It can be something that you both find very fulfilling, or it can be tedium and agony. This isn't to say that good marriages don't get tedious; of course they do, but how you handle that and other problems that emerge is what makes or breaks the relationship.
whytiger
Community Member
- MBTI
- INTP
There was a nice article in the Wash. Post about Al and Tipper splitting up. I think there's a lot of truth in the idea that people can get married and later divorced and both be the right decisions.
I got married shortly after my 19th birthday. My wife was also 19. This year will be our 11th anniversary. Sometimes it's made to last, sometimes it isn't. If you manage to die before you get divorced, that's great, but the relationship, as it is, will end one way or another, as all things do. Just because it may end doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
I got married shortly after my 19th birthday. My wife was also 19. This year will be our 11th anniversary. Sometimes it's made to last, sometimes it isn't. If you manage to die before you get divorced, that's great, but the relationship, as it is, will end one way or another, as all things do. Just because it may end doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
Trifoilum
find wisdom, build hope.
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Indeed. A point that I'm wondering is whether most people (I'm quite sure there are-- I'm probably one of them) would 'hide' their actual skin even during the living together phase?
@whytiger : Congratulations! XD (and I envy you.
)Agree.
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- MBTI
- None
In my personal opinion, marriage is more of a cultural phenomenon than anything else. It is available in multiple countries in different forms, and largely as a whole, is a religious matter. It is possible to be married and not have a religious tone to it, but then it is governmental.
Marriage provides, usually, governmental security and financial benefits. It is seen as joining two person together, and religion has used it over the years vastly to ensure that the child a woman bares is her rightful husbands; this is before paternity tests of course.
I believe that all ideas have a coming and going phase. I don’t think of marriage as a belief, but more as an idea, a tool, and societies will pick up ideas and tools that ‘work’ for them. Society as a whole is a big bout of idealism; we have certain ideals we want to portray so we establish customs and traditions that mirror these ideals. I personally believe that the concept of marriage is outdated. A lot of marriage has to do with the control of woman; if you go back to the early 1800’s the average lifespan of individuals was much shorter, and generally, women became sick easier than men and were quite weaker. Because of this, and due to the fact that there was no way to trace who was the father of a child, marriage was a way for women to be provided for and a way for husbands to make sure their women remained chaste and only have sexual relations to them, for way of child birth and continuing their genes.
This is why in a traditional sense, homosexual relations and the idea of homosexual marriages is frowned upon because it does not mean the main object goals of the idea of marriage. We have to consider that in the early 1800’s the reason that people died so early was a lack of development in the medical field. It wasn’t until later in the 1800’s that the rate started going up and by the early 1900’s people were living a lot longer than they had anytime before. If we look at the marriageable age for both men and women during these different centuries, we will see that the average age would be between 13-16 for women and it would be much older for men, because men had to develop a career to provide for a woman before marriage, and a woman would be married off very soon so that she could be paid and taken care of by her husband and have children quickly before she got to old ( people would die at age about 40).
With the development of the medical field, the lifespan of women increased as well as for men and the marriageable age started to increase as well as women and men and more time to create families and marry. Men started to marry closer into their age range, and by the late 1900’s and now, the early 2000s, we can see that not only do women live long, they on average live longer than their male counterparts.
The idea that women are weaker than men is no longer valid due to the expansion of the medical field, and additionally, because of feminist rights, women are no longer needing to marry at an early age so that they will be provided for. Women are able to work and bare children later on; I believe that in the United States the average marriage age for women is now 25, which is a dramatic increase. People are now living to be 80, 90 years old, so it is only understandable.
Due to these changes there is less of a need of traditional marriage, in fact, the idea of marriage is no longer really required. We now attribute marriage to ‘love’ and creating a stable, respectable family, and now more than ever marriage is more about social standing and religion than anything else. There are some financial benefits to marriage as well as spiritual but there is nothing particularly practical about it, and the appeal of traditional gender roles has worn off due to the change of times.
The idea of marriage, this tool, has worn out. I don’t think we should practice marriage anymore, and if we do, we need to re-define it.
Marriage provides, usually, governmental security and financial benefits. It is seen as joining two person together, and religion has used it over the years vastly to ensure that the child a woman bares is her rightful husbands; this is before paternity tests of course.
I believe that all ideas have a coming and going phase. I don’t think of marriage as a belief, but more as an idea, a tool, and societies will pick up ideas and tools that ‘work’ for them. Society as a whole is a big bout of idealism; we have certain ideals we want to portray so we establish customs and traditions that mirror these ideals. I personally believe that the concept of marriage is outdated. A lot of marriage has to do with the control of woman; if you go back to the early 1800’s the average lifespan of individuals was much shorter, and generally, women became sick easier than men and were quite weaker. Because of this, and due to the fact that there was no way to trace who was the father of a child, marriage was a way for women to be provided for and a way for husbands to make sure their women remained chaste and only have sexual relations to them, for way of child birth and continuing their genes.
This is why in a traditional sense, homosexual relations and the idea of homosexual marriages is frowned upon because it does not mean the main object goals of the idea of marriage. We have to consider that in the early 1800’s the reason that people died so early was a lack of development in the medical field. It wasn’t until later in the 1800’s that the rate started going up and by the early 1900’s people were living a lot longer than they had anytime before. If we look at the marriageable age for both men and women during these different centuries, we will see that the average age would be between 13-16 for women and it would be much older for men, because men had to develop a career to provide for a woman before marriage, and a woman would be married off very soon so that she could be paid and taken care of by her husband and have children quickly before she got to old ( people would die at age about 40).
With the development of the medical field, the lifespan of women increased as well as for men and the marriageable age started to increase as well as women and men and more time to create families and marry. Men started to marry closer into their age range, and by the late 1900’s and now, the early 2000s, we can see that not only do women live long, they on average live longer than their male counterparts.
The idea that women are weaker than men is no longer valid due to the expansion of the medical field, and additionally, because of feminist rights, women are no longer needing to marry at an early age so that they will be provided for. Women are able to work and bare children later on; I believe that in the United States the average marriage age for women is now 25, which is a dramatic increase. People are now living to be 80, 90 years old, so it is only understandable.
Due to these changes there is less of a need of traditional marriage, in fact, the idea of marriage is no longer really required. We now attribute marriage to ‘love’ and creating a stable, respectable family, and now more than ever marriage is more about social standing and religion than anything else. There are some financial benefits to marriage as well as spiritual but there is nothing particularly practical about it, and the appeal of traditional gender roles has worn off due to the change of times.
The idea of marriage, this tool, has worn out. I don’t think we should practice marriage anymore, and if we do, we need to re-define it.
dneecey
I am who I am.
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- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 9w1
*sigh* I am about to de-romanticize this I think.
I am going through a somewhat amicable divorce... or so it would appear right now. *fingers crossed*
My ex-cheated on me and before that he was and to a certain degree still is very emotionally abusive. It wasn't until he cheated on me that I opened my eyes to the fact that just because I loved him didn't mean that he should be allowed to treat me like garbage. I made the decision to leave him... however he is in the military and is leaving for Afghanistan in less than a week. He and I have been separated for about 7 months now although technically its been a bit longer than that, I made the decision to divorce a little after that. I have also stayed here in Tennessee solely for the fact that I wanted him to spend this time before he leaves with his kids.
Every day is a trial. I never really wanted to get married. He did, I did for him. I most certainly didn't want to get a divorce. But I don't believe that staying would be the right decision, especially not for my kids. I don't want my kids growing up thinking that it is okay to be treated the way I was or in a relationship like the one that their father and I were in.
I understand the idea of the wedding. The getting up in front of people you know, love and who know and love you and professing a "blessed" union, until forever. It's beautiful and I cry every time I go to a wedding. A wedding does not a marriage make. A wedding is just a tiny second in a lifetime. I agree with Melkor. A relationship, love.. it should be continually professed and renewed, there should be constant support and reassurance. At least that is what I aim to do in a relationship. And people do indeed change. A wedding is just a tiny symbol.
As for marriage. The only real thing I see in it, is what I believe Satya and other people who aren't allowed a rightful marriage are fighting for. Rights. Legal rights as a couple. The government needs a little piece of paper where you say you're a union to grant you particular rights like when you're sick or paying taxes. If you desire those rights, then you should legally get married.
But a true marriage, is what I believe Elf said... and it is also what my grandmother and grandfather had. Not my biological grandfather but my uncles father. They loved each other, were committed to each other, and lived closely and very much together in their hearts, bodies and minds until the very end. That's a real marriage, so what if they never went and actually got married? They never split up either... not until my grandfather passed away.. and if you ask me.. not even then. <3
Is marriage worth it? Well it depends on what you define marriage to be. And what you want from it BB. I think what should really be emphasized is what you want in a relationship and where you want for it to go. When asked...when asking.. don't just say I want to get married. Say what you want from the marriage. What moreso you want from the relationship. Love. Commitment. Loyalty. Friendship. Support. Those things are what matter to me.. what matters to you?
I am going through a somewhat amicable divorce... or so it would appear right now. *fingers crossed*
My ex-cheated on me and before that he was and to a certain degree still is very emotionally abusive. It wasn't until he cheated on me that I opened my eyes to the fact that just because I loved him didn't mean that he should be allowed to treat me like garbage. I made the decision to leave him... however he is in the military and is leaving for Afghanistan in less than a week. He and I have been separated for about 7 months now although technically its been a bit longer than that, I made the decision to divorce a little after that. I have also stayed here in Tennessee solely for the fact that I wanted him to spend this time before he leaves with his kids.
Every day is a trial. I never really wanted to get married. He did, I did for him. I most certainly didn't want to get a divorce. But I don't believe that staying would be the right decision, especially not for my kids. I don't want my kids growing up thinking that it is okay to be treated the way I was or in a relationship like the one that their father and I were in.
I understand the idea of the wedding. The getting up in front of people you know, love and who know and love you and professing a "blessed" union, until forever. It's beautiful and I cry every time I go to a wedding. A wedding does not a marriage make. A wedding is just a tiny second in a lifetime. I agree with Melkor. A relationship, love.. it should be continually professed and renewed, there should be constant support and reassurance. At least that is what I aim to do in a relationship. And people do indeed change. A wedding is just a tiny symbol.
As for marriage. The only real thing I see in it, is what I believe Satya and other people who aren't allowed a rightful marriage are fighting for. Rights. Legal rights as a couple. The government needs a little piece of paper where you say you're a union to grant you particular rights like when you're sick or paying taxes. If you desire those rights, then you should legally get married.
But a true marriage, is what I believe Elf said... and it is also what my grandmother and grandfather had. Not my biological grandfather but my uncles father. They loved each other, were committed to each other, and lived closely and very much together in their hearts, bodies and minds until the very end. That's a real marriage, so what if they never went and actually got married? They never split up either... not until my grandfather passed away.. and if you ask me.. not even then. <3
Is marriage worth it? Well it depends on what you define marriage to be. And what you want from it BB. I think what should really be emphasized is what you want in a relationship and where you want for it to go. When asked...when asking.. don't just say I want to get married. Say what you want from the marriage. What moreso you want from the relationship. Love. Commitment. Loyalty. Friendship. Support. Those things are what matter to me.. what matters to you?
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Gaze
Donor
- MBTI
- INFPishy
Very insightful and helpful. Thx for sharing. In other words, marriage is an ongoing relationship between two people, not merely an institution.