Is it possible to have a healthy relationship with a person who has low self esteem/worth?

[slant]

Oh.

Someone should tell him straight up how he's coming across and to stop fucking around.

I used to be this way, and so I understand where he is coming from. Basically when you have been socially isolated and alone for a long time, and you have no confidence or self esteem in yourself, a few things happen:

You become hypervigilant during social interactions.

Whereas normal people overlook a lot of things and give the benefit of the doubt, an isolated person is paranoid and hypersensitive to rejection and interprets everything as a rejection of them. This ironically results in further isolating the more they try to reach out, since to a normally socialized person this seems paranoid/attacking.

There is a tendency to seek approval from others constantly and for reassurance, which again, gets exhausting for the person on the receiving end.

The only way out of loneliness is to recognize that you have it and to work on your own self esteem so that you are not seeking love and attention from others to feel whole. You have to put yourself in lots of social situations, get used to rejection and desensitized to it, and this takes a lot of courage and work that most people aren't willing to do.

 

[dragulagu]

To everyone:

@slant : You're completely in your right to set the limits on where the relationship with him goes. But loneliness is a something affecting a lot of people nowadays.
You're not a bad person for doing what you did, just don't cut off contact like that. It's by far the shittiest move anyone can do to another (and that's not targeted towards you, but as a general flaw in communication).

The only way out of loneliness is to recognize that you have it and to work on your own self esteem so that you are not seeking love and attention from others to feel whole. You have to put yourself in lots of social situations, get used to rejection and desensitized to it, and this takes a lot of courage and work that most people aren't willing to do.

Exactly

The current world is far beyond brutal on that regard though.

 

[slant]

To everyone:

@slant : You're completely in your right to set the limits on where the relationship with him goes. But loneliness is a something affecting a lot of people nowadays.
You're not a bad person for doing what you did, just don't cut off contact like that. It's by far the shittiest move anyone can do to another (and that's not targeted towards you, but as a general flaw in communication).


Exactly

The current world is far beyond brutal on that regard though.

I don't think that continuing that relationship in any capacity would be healthy. Unfortunately, he needs to work on himself and this will continue to happen to him until he addresses his underlying self esteem issues. I am not responsible for his loneliness nor is it my job to be his caretaker.

 

[dragulagu]

I don't think that continuing that relationship in any capacity would be healthy. Unfortunately, he needs to work on himself and this will continue to happen to him until he addresses his underlying self esteem issues. I am not responsible for his loneliness nor is it my job to be his caretaker.

Yes you're right, and just watch the video, woman.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

To everyone:

@slant : You're completely in your right to set the limits on where the relationship with him goes. But loneliness is a something affecting a lot of people nowadays.
You're not a bad person for doing what you did, just don't cut off contact like that. It's by far the shittiest move anyone can do to another (and that's not targeted towards you, but as a general flaw in communication).


Exactly

The current world is far beyond brutal on that regard though.

There is a lot to take notice of people that put on a vibe of perpetual happy only to cut and run the moment things get sad or worse dark. Almost everyone can see the obvious that this world isn't a great place nor is it easy though I do wish people would be honest and stop pretending that it is all love and light when so much goes on unresolved. One of the things that made me darkly jaded about people in general is watching how they cut each other off with such ease and go on as if the prior experience never existed.

 

[dragulagu]

There is a lot to take notice of people that put on a vibe of perpetual happy only to cut and run the moment things get sad or worse dark. Almost everyone can see the obvious that this world isn't a great place nor is it easy though I do wish people would be honest and stop pretending that it is all love and light when so much goes on unresolved. One of the things that made me darkly jaded about people in general is watching how they cut each other off with such ease and go on as if the prior experience never existed.

Yep, welcome to reality 1.0 , no happy cookies. One thing we should be very lucky on now is that we don't have to endure any direct war period as a western civilisation. And I really hope we won't for several decennia.
Just to give some perspective again:

 

[dragulagu]

@slant strongly emphasising that you are not the bad person here. It's just for the sake of discussion.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Yep, welcome to reality 1.0 , no happy cookies. One thing we should be very lucky on now is that we don't have to endure any direct war period as a western civilisation. And I really hope we won't for several decennia.
Just to give some perspective again:

What's the point of this post, dragu?

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Oh I'm sure he is lonely. In fact I know he is lonely. He was lonely even before the pandemic and self isolated. And he did feel connected to me. I never said he didn't. But I haven't thought about him in three years since we worked together and I don't think it's healthy that he thinks about me all the time and desires a friendship with me when I don't really like him as a person. It would be cruel to keep that going.

I think what it is, I have poor boundaries and people that I don't like or who are seeking my love and approval without giving me anything in return tend to take advantage of that. They're not bad people, and it's very much my fault for not putting up boundaries with people like that. What happens is I see people who are lonely or social isolated and feel bad for them and try to be their friend and then it becomes codependent because I'm their only friend and they feel like they're entitled to my love and attention. They say they care about me but at the same time the relationship is centered about me telling them what a good person they are.

So you've fallen upon a mode of social operation characterised by giving affection and then withdrawing it?

 

[slant]

So you've fallen upon a mode of social operation characterised by giving affection and then withdrawing it?

I don't feel the need to justify my actions to you. If that's how you interpret it that's how you interpret it. I don't think we are obligated to give our love, time and attention to anyone that we don't want to give it to.

@slant strongly emphasising that you are not the bad person here. It's just for the sake of discussion.

I didn't think you were implying that, and this guy I'm talking about is not a bad guy either. The situation is nuanced and complicated; both of us contributed to it.

See, in October of 2016 I was raped pretty violently. The following year in 2017 was the lowest point in my entire life. I was a psychological mess. This guy is 45 years old now so back then he would have been 42 and I would have been 24. He developed a crush on me, and I knew he had a crush on me but I didn't know what to do about it. I told him we were coworkers and could only be friends. When I eventually had a nervous breakdown because of the stress of having to tell people on a daily basis who had cancer that they can't have health insurance because they missed a deadline, I made bad choices. I decided that I had to prove to myself that I could have sex again, I had not since the rape. I hooked up with this co-worker, telling him it was just a hookup and nothing more. I had to get super drunk to do it because of the trauma of what had happened before and because I wasn't really attracted to this guy.

After that incident, we never spoke again. Until recently when he reached out to me.

It was kind of like a full circle moment because I realized the whole thing that happened with my coworker was sort of karma. It even happened in October not too long after the anniversary of my attack. I knew from my experience of being fixated on my coworker for the past 9 months that his feelings were not going to go away only increase the more contact I had with him. I was a very different person 3 years ago and it's hard to grapple with my past actions.

But I did take accountability in that conversation. I told him about my mental state back then and that I was just trying to be normal after I had been assaulted, I apologized for the impact it might have had on him. I hope he gets resolution from that. I did what I can but now he has to deal with the rest.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I don't feel the need to justify my actions to you. If that's how you interpret it that's how you interpret it. I don't think we are obligated to give our love, time and attention to anyone that we don't want to give it to.

I'm not asking you to defend yourself to me.

And of course we are under no obligation to give any of that, but there's a difference between that and giving and then withdrawing. The latter has the real potential to do someone psychological damage.

 

[dragulagu]

What's the point of this post, dragu?

What do you think?

 

[slant]

I'm not asking you to defend yourself to me.

And of course we are under no obligation to give any of that, but there's a difference between that and giving and then withdrawing. The latter has the real potential to do someone psychological damage.

How do you know in advanced that you in the future are going to not want to give love to someone? If your feelings change are you meant to just pretend they didn't and force yourself to?

 

[dragulagu]

How do you know in advanced that you in the future are going to not want to give love to someone? If your feelings change are you meant to just pretend they didn't and force yourself to?

Feelings are fleeting, the love for the roman Empire though, forever.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

How do you know in advanced that you in the future are going to not want to give love to someone? If your feelings change are you meant to just pretend they didn't and force yourself to?

No idea, bro, I don't have much practice in being fickle as fuck, lol.

I'm kidding, but there's no sense in not admitting that it isn't damaging to people.

 

[slant]

No idea, bro, I don't have much practice in being fickle as fuck, lol.

I'm kidding, but there's no sense in not admitting that it isn't damaging to people.

Of course it's damaging to people. That's part of life, though. People fall out of love. People drift apart and are no longer friends. There's nothing that can be done about that, pretending your feelings haven't changed isn't the solution.

I also feel like you're characterizing changing feelings as an inherently negative personality trait which I would like to counter with an alternative perspective. I believe when these things happen its usually a sign of growth a personal development. Maybe an alcoholic decides to stop being friends with his friends he has because they all drink and he's trying to be sober, for example.

I understand the perspective of thinking there is a right guy and wrong guy in a situation and that if someone does something that hurts then there's a victim and a villain but is it possible that there are situations where a persons feelings get hurt yet it had to happen?

 

[dragulagu]

@slant this is a personal matter, so I'll take an impersonal approach (for the sake of discussion) it is a personal issue your personally are going through. How are you feeling right now? (going for a self damaging report rig now for the sake of reporting)

 

[dragulagu]

will be respecting the conclusive respective view.

 

[slant]

@slant this is a personal matter, so I'll take an impersonal approach (for the sake of discussion) it is a personal issue your personally are going through. How are you feeling right now? (going for a self damaging report rig now for the sake of reporting)

I'm okay. Working through acceptance and forgiveness

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Of course it's damaging to people. That's part of life, though. People fall out of love. People drift apart and are no longer friends. There's nothing that can be done about that, pretending your feelings haven't changed isn't the solution.

I also feel like you're characterizing changing feelings as an inherently negative personality trait which I would like to counter with an alternative perspective. I believe when these things happen its usually a sign of growth a personal development. Maybe an alcoholic decides to stop being friends with his friends he has because they all drink and he's trying to be sober, for example.

I understand the perspective of thinking there is a right guy and wrong guy in a situation and that if someone does something that hurts then there's a victim and a villain but is it possible that there are situations where a persons feelings get hurt yet it had to happen?

I think there's a very real qualic difference in how we experience friendships, so I'm just going to offer my perspective rather than a definitive 'answer'.

I think it's helpful to understand my subjective experience of 'friendships' and what a 'friendship' is by using a different word here, perhaps something like 'comrade'. I don't judge the value or worth of a friendship by how we're getting along in that moment, by how much we have in common at the time, or by how much we currently enjoy each others' company.

To me, the relationship of 'friend', once established, is entirely divorced from those things - it's not something inherently experiential; instead the foundation is more like an understanding of loyalty. A friend is a friend for life, despite the fluctuations of time spent together, &c.

Perhaps this is an INTJ thing, perhaps it's a male thing, but if you are truly someone's 'friend', you shouldn't be worrying that you're drifting apart or that they've changed, or that they otherwise pose some 'risk' to you. So when I hear people speak like this, it's very unusual to hear and almost doesn't make sense to me. It's as if these friendships are being handled with the emotional intensity of a romantic attachment.

From my perspective, then, the way you're speaking sounds too much like 'discard'; a dishonour to the friendship and 'friendship' in general.