INTP vs INFP

[poshlost]

This is something I can't get some people to understand. Just because there is one letter difference doesn't mean the types are similar. If you look at the preference order of an INFP and compare it to an INTP you'll find that the auxiliary and tertiary functions are the same, but the Dominant and and inferior are not. I find that there is a pretty big difference between a Ti user and an Fi user. That should really be the easiest way to tell.

I can't understand why so many NTs have so much trust in a flawed theory. No critical thinking at all. The theory itself is dichotomous, while seeing the huge differences among people of the same type should show you that preferences are on a scale continuum.

The way I feel is closest to Fi, while the way I think is closest to Ti, as for intuition, it's a mix of both Ni and Ne equally. But I'm not a special case at all, such discrepancies from the theoretical norm are extremely common, they're actually more common than the cases of people naturally conforming to the norm, that's why for example there are so many "what type am I????" threads which usually end in inconclusive results.

 

[Gaze]

However,

My experience with INFPs was that they just kind of expected you to know how they feel. I couldn't always tell, but I'm not sure if that's because they're hard to read or because I'm bad at reading people.

But i can relate to this as well. I am sometimes not every explicit because i assume that how i'm feeling is apparent in my body language.

 

[Gaze]

I would say an Fi dominant is very aware of their feelings but has difficulty with logic since it is the inferior function; they go for what "feels right", while a Ti dominant is very aware of their logics and has difficulty with searching out there feelings and they go for what "IS right in there minds".

Fi users will see values as personal and logic as commune
Ti users will see logic as personal and values as commune

I know that we are very similar @Morgain but i connect with the discription of Ti you describe here. hmm . . . So, although i'm a Fi user, it seems that i could also be a Ti user. Years of socialization in two different cultures has made it difficult to distinguish between dominant vs. inferior functions. I think i've resisted the typing of INFP because it doesn't adequately represent who i feel i am. On the other hand, i am not going to argue that i am T either because i think based on my perceptions of the Ts who post here, i'm not sure i fit the bill.

Interesting stuff. . .

 

[Morgain]

I can't understand why so many NTs have so much trust in a flawed theory. No critical thinking at all. The theory itself is dichotomous, while seeing the huge differences among people of the same type should show you that preferences are on a scale continuum.

The way I feel is closest to Fi, while the way I think is closest to Ti, as for intuition, it's a mix of both Ni and Ne equally. But I'm not a special case at all, such discrepancies from the theoretical norm are extremely common, they're actually more common than the cases of people naturally conforming to the norm, that's why for example there are so many "what type am I????" threads which usually end in inconclusive results.

maybe you should look into the dom/tert loop. I found it a bit scary how accurate it described me in my most dark moments

INFP/ISTJ: Fi/Si or Si/Fi--Avoidant Personality Disorder. Often scarred by some intensely negative past experience with opening up too many of their private emotions, this type compulsively avoids social situations and interaction with others. They are fiercely sensitive and may exaggerate or misconstrue perceived negative emotional intent in the words or actions of others. They will sometimes project their negative feelings onto others (Fi), as Si tells them that if I were to behave this way, I would have to be very upset, so anyone who behaves that way must also be. These types often have a chronic problem with trusting the intentions or motivations of others, refusing to share private information with even their closest friends and family. They are so deeply sensitive that they refuse to risk being hurt by attempting deep connections with others--you'll see this a lot in ISTJs with Asperger's. If Ne/Te were doing its job, these types would maintain a heathy grip on the importance of letting go of the past and trying something new in the name of accomplishing a greater goal, but some of these remain total recluses for most (if not all) of their lives.

INTP/ISFJ: Ti/Si or Si/Ti--Schizotypal Personality Disorder. I see this most commonly in INTP dom/tert loops (Ti+Si), resulting in totally giving up on attempting to obtain the social/interpersonal connections that inferior Fe drives them to unconsciously desire. Schizotypal people are seen (and typically see themselves) as having such unusual thoughts and behaviors that widespread social acceptance is nearly impossible. Ti thinks, "I cannot find any logical explanation for social rituals" and Si reinforces this self-isolating, risk-averse behavior by constantly reminding the user: "Remember how badly this went last time you tried?" If Ne were doing its job, it would remind the user to continue experimenting to find a new approach. In the ISFJ version, Si becomes ultra risk-averse and refuses to try anything new or unfamiliar. If Fe were doing its job, the ISFJ would learn that some risk is necessary in order to uphold obligations to others and avoid living in total solitude. Deep down, these types really do want social connection and ritual (Fe), but have found themselves so poor at it that they simply give up trying.

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html

 

[DevilDoll]

I can't understand why so many NTs have so much trust in a flawed theory. No critical thinking at all. The theory itself is dichotomous, while seeing the huge differences among people of the same type should show you that preferences are on a scale continuum.

The way I feel is closest to Fi, while the way I think is closest to Ti, as for intuition, it's a mix of both Ni and Ne equally. But I'm not a special case at all, such discrepancies from the theoretical norm are extremely common, they're actually more common than the cases of people naturally conforming to the norm, that's why for example there are so many "what type am I????" threads which usually end in inconclusive results.

Yes, everyone feels and thinks. Everyone has a bit of intuition as well as sensing. We use all eight of our functions. The order of the top four is how you assign an MBTI type. I didn't mean to suggest that a Ti user doesn't also use Fi at points in time. However, a dominant Ti user is less likely to have a developed Fi.

 

[DevilDoll]

maybe you should look into the dom/tert loop. I found it a bit scary how accurate it described me in my most dark moments



http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html

^^^ This is why I was typed as an ITSJ for so long. My Si was more developed than my Ne. I seem to have developed Ti/Si first. Now I find myself being typed ENTP because I am going back to develop Ne/Fe, which I forgot until recently...

 

[Melkor]

INTP's will nearly always make you feel worse, unintentionally.

INFP's will nearly always make you feel better on purpose.

It's not really a tough decision.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

INTP's will nearly always make you feel worse, unintentionally.

INFP's will nearly always make you feel better on purpose.

It's not really a tough decision.

This post made me feel a little better. I would almost give you rep, but I wont.

 

[NeverAmI]

What do you think are the biggest, most obvious differences between a Fi and Ti user?

Looking back, people asking me how I feel tends to make me awkward and repeatedly asking me will piss me off, unless I really really like the questioner. Even then I will probably be irritated.

 

[Orion]

What theory are you referring to exactly? The MBTI or Jung's Cognitive functions? It sounds to me like you liberally sprinkled your own interpretation on something you've never really understood in the first place.

I can't understand why so many NTs have so much trust in a flawed theory. No critical thinking at all. The theory itself is dichotomous, while seeing the huge differences among people of the same type should show you that preferences are on a scale continuum.

No, they are not. This is a huge misconception. You are not 40% this and 60% that. The difference in variation in types is due to the development of different cognitive functions. An INFJ with well developed (or twisted) Ti and Se may look radically different to your "average" INFJ. Furthermore, a CF does not define what you think or do, only how. This is again down to to people latching onto a predisposed idea of what a type should be. There is no such thing, everything individual is an exception to the rule.

The way I feel is closest to Fi, while the way I think is closest to Ti, as for intuition, it's a mix of both Ni and Ne equally. But I'm not a special case at all, such discrepancies from the theoretical norm are extremely common, they're actually more common than the cases of people naturally conforming to the norm, that's why for example there are so many "what type am I????" threads which usually end in inconclusive results.

No, there are so many type me threads because very few people actually understand the cognitive functions. Most of the people who create those threads have probably only looked at an MBTI book, or worse, taken an internet quiz. And a lot of them are ISFP's and ISFJ's anyway.

I understand that there are many people who may have slightly non-standard preference orders but if you are suggesting that one can access multiple mindsets and frameworks of perspective at the same time- well that's the equivalent of trying to walk in two different directions at the same time.

 

[NeverAmI]

^^^ This is why I was typed as an ITSJ for so long. My Si was more developed than my Ne. I seem to have developed Ti/Si first. Now I find myself being typed ENTP because I am going back to develop Ne/Fe, which I forgot until recently...

I thought MBTI classified according to inherently strong dominant/auxilary/etc function usage.

 

[Morgain]

I thought MBTI classified according to inherently strong dominant/auxilary/etc function usage.

according to Lenore a lot of times people develop their tertiary function before their secondary because it has the same orientation (introverted/extraverted) as the dominant and is therefore more comfortable. She says that developing your secondary function will benefit you since it supports the dominant and keeps it in balance.

I can't understand why so many NTs have so much trust in a flawed theory. No critical thinking at all. The theory itself is dichotomous, while seeing the huge differences among people of the same type should show you that preferences are on a scale continuum.

ofcourse it is a flawed theory. All theories are. But the theory was billed by experts after a long period of examination. Do you really think that you with critical thinking can make up a better one? If you want to play MBTI than play by the rules or else play an other game and call it YHWH

 

[Orion]

I think i've resisted the typing of INFP because it doesn't adequately represent who i feel i am. On the other hand, i am not going to argue that i am T either because i think based on my perceptions of the Ts who post here, i'm not sure i fit the bill.

Interesting stuff. . .

But why? Because you don't feel you fit in to that description? The real question is, how do you perceive Ti and Fi to be? Maybe it's an Ni versus Ne thing but, I don't understand the need for verifiable validation from other people, when the only answer can come from yourself.

Maybe that is a sign of your INFP preferences... You seem to put more stock into the verifiable consensus (Te) then what you actually believe to be the truth from your own subjective logical value system (Ti).

You are forever going to be stuck in this quandry unless you broaden your understanding on potential of the CF preferences. "INFP's are this that and the other"- blah blah blah- it's just gonna put you in a tail spin. Albeit, I am not an expert on INFPs but what I do know is that each type can have radically different manifestations.

 

[Gaze]

Maybe that is a sign of your INFP preferences... You seem to put more stock into the verifiable consensus (Te) then what you actually believe to be the truth from your own subjective logical value system (Ti).
.

Thing is, this assumes that the truth can only be subjectively determined - by looking inside myself. Simply because i feel something is true, doesn't make it true which is closer to logical value system. If i don't fully understand the functions, and would like feedback, that doesn't make me Fi or Ti. It simply means, i want feedback and i'm curious about getting input from others. I see nothing wrong in doing research and getting other's perspectives. It's nice to consider other possibilities.

Of course, it's questionable when someone says (as i did) that you can't be A because you demonstrate B. For example, just as everyone keeps saying asking questions is a major sign of Ti. This implies in some way that you can't have high Fi and naturally enjoy asking questions. So, i think the problem is how we interpret the functions and understand how they're displayed in our behavior.

 

[acd]

The truth of who you are can only be subjectively determined.
No one is going to be able to know the inner-workings of your mind better than yourself.

...what I do know is that each type can have radically different manifestations.

Important to keep that in mind..

 

[Orion]

Thing is, this assumes that the truth can only be subjectively determined - by looking inside myself. Simply because i feel something is true, doesn't make it true which is closer to logical value system. If i don't fully understand the functions, and would like feedback, that doesn't make me Fi or Ti. It simply means, i want feedback and i'm curious about getting input from others. I see nothing wrong in doing research and getting other's perspectives. It's nice to consider other possibilities.

No and I agree because that is an Ne trait. Which is why I said you were an INFP. If I mentioned Te inferior, it's kind of obvious that's the type I was referring to.

I mentioned Te in reference to you thinking you were a T type. My point being that you seem to use Te inferior rather than Ti dominant. Coupled with your extroverted intuition to ask for answers or ask questions and then draw (seemingly) tangible conclusions and theories based on that external information- Ne. Your Te manifests in the way I described before. That would make you an INFP rather than INTP, in my book.

Why are you making it out as if I'm not allowing you to consider all possibilities? But I am addressing your primary issue- not a deep enough understanding of the CFs, which is making you constantly reconsider things.

Thing is, this assumes that the truth can only be subjectively determined

Well... Yeah! I agree with Bananaphone, that is correct.

Carl Jung said this all along. Type is an abstract, an almost futile (but never the less important) attempt to subjectively and abstractly acknowledge the behavioural processes of the mind that shape our personal dispositions.

Grouping people into collectively upheld classifications of archetypal behaviour is philosophy more than a psychology and I'm pretty sure Jung was down with that.

Of course, it's questionable when someone says (as i did) that you can't be A because you demonstrate B. For example, just as everyone keeps saying asking questions is a major sign of Ti. This implies in some way that you can't have high Fi and naturally enjoy asking questions. So, i think the problem is how we interpret the functions and understand how they're displayed in our behavior.

Yes, the fundamental problem is interpretation. The next problem is false/bad information generated from general ignorance towards the subject! We are constantly battling the latter.

 

[Orion]

Important to keep that in mind..

It kind of goes without saying, to be honest.

But because Fred, Sarah and a million other forum typologists read ONE PROFILE of their type written by Keirsey in the 70's- we must all have a particular demonstrable behavioural pattern that stereotypically waves the red flag on our type or we are assigned to.. (gasp) a sensor!

Just read Adymus' thread: Many faces of INFJ, for example. You may not agree with it totally but the concept has truth. Now apply that to all the types. That's a hell of a lot of variation. But all cognitively explainable.

 

[Orion]

Actually, i don't draw conclusions after i ask the questions. I usually already have an opinion or know what i think or feel before asking the questions. I don't get the answers from the questions. Rather the answers may either affirm or contradict what i already believe to be the truth.

it's just that online, where you're interacting with everyone, it's necessary to lay out thought processes so that others can understand the thinking. So, i may seem to be exploring possibilities (Ne) but i'm really just trying to find ways to confirm the truth of my Ni.

And again, this idea that you can't be this type because you demonstrated the use of this function is faulty. This is online, it's not the real world. One function may be dominant in one situation or circumstance but not another.

Okay, but I'm judging my information based on the time I've read your posts since you've joined forum, not just your post by post analysis and I really see a strong Ne pattern not Ni. In fact, what you just said kind of confirms an Ji dominance, coupled with Ne. And so, my reasons for pointing out your Te inferior (based also on what you have said in the past) would point me towards INFP- not INTP.

And of course, again, it goes without saying that yes, "you can never really know someone's type over the internet". Me for example, my Ti mindset grows in percentage use, when I use the forum. You don't see much Fe from me in a direct manner, but my Fe is healthily developed in real life.

But seriously, why even bring that up? We've heard it a thousand times, you are the one that is asking for the analysis then you turn around and say "oh well, you cant tell someone's type on the internet!" because you don't like what I'm saying.

 

[Gaze]

Of course, it's questionable when someone says (as i did) that you can't be A because you demonstrate B. For example, just as everyone keeps saying asking questions is a major sign of Ti. This implies in some way that you can't have high Fi and naturally enjoy asking questions. So, i think the problem is how we interpret the functions and understand how they're displayed in our behavior.

Correction: Should be, "this implies in some way that you can't have high Te"

 

[Orion]

Okay, maybe I get a bit over excited. But that's because I want people to understand their type.

Fe+Ti can look quite forceful.

And i don't see typing as black and white as many of you do. I see it as a spectrum.

Um, what?

I just spent this time talking about how you're an INFP by recognising your Te development (or at least, desire for it) and talking about how types cannot be decided just because their behaviour doesn't match the "profile". But INSTEAD that we should understand the full spectrum of cognitive functions and how they manifest (in a multitude of different ways) in any given type. If you cannot see that, then good luck. Fi doms drive me insane :wacko:

I think I see type as much more of a spectrum then you do. Leaving discussion.