INTJ Husband refuses professional help

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

I have dealt with an INTJ friend like this in the past and it was very difficult to navigate. At the end of the day I had to explain to him that I needed him to respect my experience and what I'm going through even if he can't understand it. I had to very clearly outline my needs in an "Explain like I'm 5" kind of way and it made a huge difference. The anger was annoying to me but I also understood that he didn't know another way and hadn't got far enough in touch with what was triggering him and WHY he felt the need to react in the specific way he did in order to do better. I had to use a lot of socratic questioning over time to help him get more emotionally connected to himself and his motivations. In the end it made a massive difference but navigating how I was feeling on top of trying to help him through how he was feeling and reacting on top of trying to help him understand what I needed made me very frustrated! And this wasn't even a romantic partner.

I think it's worth it to walk through these things with people we care about though. I also got said INTJ to go to therapy. We had to read through a lot of different profiles to find one he'd be willing to see and now he's been going to her on and off as needed for the last few years. Definitely worth the endeavor.

The moment you said "Explain like I'm 5" had me literally saying to my screen YES this is exactly what I do to make him understand but it's so frustrating to repeat myself several times. And maybe given my situation it's just made me less patient with him understanding what I am going through.

Thank you, you know what's funny is whenever I've suggested professional help he feels that the best therapists are too expensive and we can't afford it but if it saves us and our marriage then money shouldn't be an issue and so he has brushed it off. I have found a few therapists that seem to be reasonable and so will contact them and see what they say. But only if my husband is willing to, we'll see. Mentally I'm so tired right now and it's frustrating me eurgh!

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

You are absolutely entitled to that. It was said earlier that if you are struggling you can't really help him through whatever his deal is. You can't mother him through it. I think @Odyne gave some really good perspective. There's really no easy answer. I can say that ideally, he should be there as your support system-- not collapsing into his own spiral in reaction to whatever happened to you. It just sounds like as @Wildfire suggested, he is feeling powerless and lashing out. Maybe if he could grasp that your emotions are a natural response to what happened, it may help? Maybe he needs to start reading about responses to trauma instead of statistics.

Thinking about it all it maybe that he has never seen me so distraught as I'm quite a tough person and hardly ever break down in front of him and he has never seen me so down and sad or angry either. I'm generally a really calm person on the outside (he has no idea my internal person is a whole hurricane of emotions, thoughts and scenarios!) so maybe him seeing me so out of control or unable to control the situation has got him angry about being unable to help me or do anything. As I said he has never dealt with trauma in his life, he has had a pretty easy going life so this is like a whole new thing to deal with and to adjust to.

 

[acd]

Thinking about it all it maybe that he has never seen me so distraught as I'm quite a tough person and hardly ever break down in front of him and he has never seen me so down and sad or angry either. I'm generally a really calm person on the outside (he has no idea my internal person is a whole hurricane of emotions, thoughts and scenarios!) so maybe him seeing me so out of control or unable to control the situation has got him angry about being unable to help me or do anything. As I said he has never dealt with trauma in his life, he has had a pretty easy going life so this is like a whole new thing to deal with and to adjust to.

As an INTJ, he's capable of researching the psychological implications and understanding it. Personally I think if he's going to examine statistics to try to understand he can look at the psychology of trauma to get a better understanding. It gives him a chance to learn and analyze and maybe will even help him to see what is happening within himself in response.

 

[David54]

greetings, and welcome. I know I am late to the show and I agree with most of what has been said. It seems to me that you trigger each other, and that you are willing to fight. . "he better not try" or words to that effect were shared. I think you both need to seek help for your individual issues, but he will have to do so because he feels the need, not because you have thrown down to him. . It's difficult to advise too much knowing so little about the situation. Blessings moving forward

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

As an INTJ, he's capable of researching the psychological implications and understanding it. Personally I think if he's going to examine statistics to try to understand he can look at the psychology of trauma to get a better understanding. It gives him a chance to learn and analyze and maybe will even help him to see what is happening within himself in response.

I may ask him to read the psychological aspect and see how he interprets it and deals with it. I know he has a tendency to research things for him to make his own mind up.

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

greetings, and welcome. I know I am late to the show and I agree with most of what has been said. It seems to me that you trigger each other, and that you are willing to fight. . "he better not try" or words to that effect were shared. I think you both need to seek help for your individual issues, but he will have to do so because he feels the need, not because you have thrown down to him. . It's difficult to advise too much knowing so little about the situation. Blessings moving forward

We may trigger each other but we rarely fight. We tend to just not talk to each other and stay out of each others way until one of us has calmed down and then we're ok and everything is happy go lucky. And we rarely do the silent treatment as we tend to work through things, however due to this trauma it's triggered a lot of emotions he has never seen in me because when something related to the trauma arises I get really upset and this is when he gets angry over trivial things and I just think I don't need this right now. He has had issues before and I fully supported him and helped him through it when needed. I think that because I've always been capable of dealing with my own feelings and even now after a week or so I wasn't crying as much and tried to get back to normal by keeping myself busy. Ho must be thinking I'm doing ok and he doesn't need to do anything. This is my opinion I'm not sure if this is what he really is thinking.

 

[Wyote]

The thing about INFJ/INTJ relationships is that INFJs are anger averse and INTJs don't understand how to display their feelings (or truly just don't give a fuck) so they disrupt in that way.

It's kind of funny.

Getting mad at every little thing makes a lot of sense when you really think about it.
This world is fucked.

 

[dragulagu]

We may trigger each other but we rarely fight. We tend to just not talk to each other and stay out of each others way until one of us has calmed down and then we're ok and everything is happy go lucky. And we rarely do the silent treatment as we tend to work through things, however due to this trauma it's triggered a lot of emotions he has never seen in me because when something related to the trauma arises I get really upset and this is when he gets angry over trivial things and I just think I don't need this right now. He has had issues before and I fully supported him and helped him through it when needed. I think that because I've always been capable of dealing with my own feelings and even now after a week or so I wasn't crying as much and tried to get back to normal by keeping myself busy. Ho must be thinking I'm doing ok and he doesn't need to do anything. This is my opinion I'm not sure if this is what he really is thinking

I'm not sure how to describe this but ok, I'll try.

You have to take into account that INTJ's and INFJ's process emotions in a different way. So...

..General Question (to everyone): How would you be able to properly empathise with someone if you haven't actually experienced these emotions.
To someone that processes feelings internally first, it feels fake. Don't get me wrong, I know what empathy is. But I'm playing the role
of a 3rd Fi now (not your husband). Someone who doesn't immediately understand this underlying language.

And if I, the 3rd Fi, don't know how to process or understand this new emotion myself I'll probably revert to one of my primary emotions. Anger being one of them.



This is not a personal opinion by the way, just taking a perspective here.

@QuirkyLemonFlower As for the personal opinion: Professional therapy will work for him to understand how to process these emotions, once he can do that, he can empathise in the situation. I understand your frustration
that in this event you have a need of your husband supporting you. From what I read and understand is that he doesn't know how to support you because he doesn't know how to take all these emotions that you are experiencing at once to understand your perspective. That will frustrate him and he pushes that outside as anger on these trivial things. Which in turn doesn't help you off course. Am I correct with this (kind of summarising everything a bit)?

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

I'm not sure how to describe this but ok, I'll try.

You have to take into account that INTJ's and INFJ's process emotions in a different way. So...

..General Question (to everyone): How would you be able to properly empathise with someone if you haven't actually experienced these emotions.
To someone that processes feelings internally first, it feels fake. Don't get me wrong, I know what empathy is. But I'm playing the role
of a 3rd Fi now (not your husband). Someone who doesn't immediately understand this underlying language.

And if I, the 3rd Fi, don't know how to process or understand this new emotion myself I'll probably revert to one of my primary emotions. Anger being one of them.

View attachment 68007

This is not a personal opinion by the way, just taking a perspective here.

@QuirkyLemonFlower As for the personal opinion: Professional therapy will work for him to understand how to process these emotions, once he can do that, he can empathise in the situation. I understand your frustration
that in this event you have a need of your husband supporting you. From what I read and understand is that he doesn't know how to support you because he doesn't know how to take all these emotions that you are experiencing at once to understand your perspective. That will frustrate him and he pushes that outside as anger on these trivial things. Which in turn doesn't help you off course. Am I correct with this (kind of summarising everything a bit)?

I think you are right with this. He is frustrated by many things and my situation has made him feel like nothing is working out for him. I feel like he has such a high expectation of things that he just needs to learn to let go, be patient and be humble. Is that difficult for an INTJ? What is expected? What does it feel like?

 

[Reason]

I appreciate the advice given and no I'm not ready to disclose my recent trauma as it's something extremely personal which has affected me and I do feel that my husband is unable to comprehend with what has happened. I say this purely because he has never experienced any kind of trauma in his life the way I have. He has no experience with responsibility as he's been spoon fed to an extent by his family but this doesn't mean he is irresponsible because he does so much more than I can ask for in anyone.

I'm not berating my husband because overall we have a really good relationship when he isn't angry and this is when we tend to speak about our issues. I also always ask him my faults and where I need to improve and always apologise so he knows this marriage is a two way relationship. I have never nagged him because I've grown up in a family where my own parents have an extremely toxic relationship and I've learnt to not do certain things that'll trigger my husband but I've always maintained my ground so he knows not to walk all over me and vice verse.

He is not aware of me wanting to divorce him and this is the very very last thing I actually want to do, marriage is hard work and we'll always face trials and tribulations this is what marriage or even serious relationships are about - this is all in my mind and I'm airing my thoughts out here where no one knows me.

My husband has always had anger issues but we've been able to work through it, he has NEVER EVER taken it out on me but he he gets angry over things that are out of his control which I get but the way he becomes angry over the trivial things is what I find hard to understand because shit happens, we get over it and move on like mature adults. However my husband just explodes over these minor issues. It may be that he is putting undue pressure on himself as a man to provide and it's not happening. I've never shown any ingratitude for what he does and have always shown my appreciation for all his work and there has never been a day where I've turned around and looked down on him but it may be due to the fact that he himself has set expectations and he isn't met them and this is frustrating him. I've always told him things will happen at the right time at the right moment and he needs to just be a little patient. I've encouraged him to do other things whilst he waits for what he wants and it seems to have worked so far and he has acknowledged his anger and that he needs to work on it. But since this trauma it feels like I'm not being considered at all and this may be that he just doesn't know how to cope as he's never faced anything like this before and he may be feeling helpless. and in my eyes it's coming across as he's being selfish and not taking my feelings into consideration at all.

And to be honest I think I came here to really put my thoughts out there for my own sanity.

I forgot to add he has acknowledged that he should consider seeking professional help but then he berates that as well and looks down on it. I've even said we can go together as he may be more comfortable with that but it's still a no.

It sounds like you have a lot of good in the relationship that you can work with. He sounds like he's trying to make it work despite the stubbornness about therapy.

I notice you're still using language about what "you think" "may be" bothering him. Does this mean that you don't specifically ask what's bothering him or that you just don't think whatever his answers are to your questions are the whole story?

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

It sounds like you have a lot of good in the relationship that you can work with. He sounds like he's trying to make it work despite the stubbornness about therapy.

I notice you're still using language about what "you think" "may be" bothering him. Does this mean that you don't specifically ask what's bothering him or that you just don't think whatever his answers are to your questions are the whole story?

I ask all the time what's bothering him once he's calmed down is either nothing and he's fine now and just smiles or his life is rubbish if something has really bothered him but never dwells on it. Sometimes I have to coax it out of him to tell me and I've noticed it frustrates him.

But overall, yes we have a good relationship and generally are happy. Bar this recent tragedy we are ok.

 

[dragulagu]

I think you are right with this. He is frustrated by many things and my situation has made him feel like nothing is working out for him. I feel like he has such a high expectation of things that he just needs to learn to let go, be patient and be humble. Is that difficult for an INTJ? What is expected? What does it feel like?

Always feels like a minefield when answering relationship questions lol.

I'll give my personal perspective (any other INTJ's here welcome to join on this). So don't see this as a direct projection to how he is experiencing this.

Letting things go; not easy, it stays somewhere in the back of the head until it's resolved, especially if it's very close to our feelings.
The frustration are pent up things that are kept inside, stacking up. He trying to resolve them one by one, can't, they keep stacking them up, more frustration etc.
Feelings always go through internally first. If he can handle them internally (or thinks he does), then he doesn't feel the need to express them.

Be patient and humble...can be easy for an INTJ, that depends on the person.

Having too high expectations of things feels frustrating above anything. But that shouldn't be a reason to express these as anger bursts.

That's towards him as an INTJ.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Letting things go; not easy, it stays somewhere in the back of the head until it's resolved, especially if it's very close to our feelings.
The frustration are pent up things that are kept inside, stacking up. He trying to resolve them one by one, can't, they keep stacking them up, more frustration etc.
Feelings always go through internally first. If he can handle them internally (or thinks he does), then he doesn't feel the need to express them.

True.

It's very hard to process things that have no natural closure or resolution.

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

Always feels like a minefield when answering relationship questions lol.

I'll give my personal perspective (any other INTJ's here welcome to join on this). So don't see this as a direct projection to how he is experiencing this.

Letting things go; not easy, it stays somewhere in the back of the head until it's resolved, especially if it's very close to our feelings.
The frustration are pent up things that are kept inside, stacking up. He trying to resolve them one by one, can't, they keep stacking them up, more frustration etc.
Feelings always go through internally first. If he can handle them internally (or thinks he does), then he doesn't feel the need to express them.

Be patient and humble...can be easy for an INTJ, that depends on the person.

Having too high expectations of things feels frustrating above anything. But that shouldn't be a reason to express these as anger bursts.

That's towards him as an INTJ.

I tend to always avoid relationship questions lol and today I decided to post on someone else's thread my opinion which I rarely do especially in forums but if I need some advice, surely I can try to give advice to someone else or just my opinion anyway

I think I'll have another very open and honest conversation with him and remind him that he needs to tell me what's going on and I need to find out where I'm going wrong and how I can fix it.

I've been having tension headaches about this whole situation and it's so annoying.

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

True.

It's very hard to process things that have no natural closure or resolution.

You know, when we first started dating he told me his personality type and I did tons of research about INTJ's, even joined an INTJ forum to get the downlow and how to deal with him and what is there to be aware of etc just so I was prepared lol. But 5 years down the line I still feel unprepared but that's the joys of relationships you will never know someone fully 5, 10 or even 15 years later but as an INFJ we want to fix or at least make sure everything is hunky dory. That is my intake of an INFJ.

 

[PapillonT]

It sounds like you have a lot of good in the relationship that you can work with. He sounds like he's trying to make it work despite the stubbornness about therapy.
I notice you're still using language about what "you think" "may be" bothering him. Does this mean that you don't specifically ask what's bothering him or that you just don't think whatever his answers are to your questions are the whole story?

I ask all the time what's bothering him once he's calmed down is either nothing and he's fine now and just smiles or his life is rubbish if something has really bothered him but never dwells on it. Sometimes I have to coax it out of him to tell me and I've noticed it frustrates him.
But overall, yes we have a good relationship and generally are happy. Bar this recent tragedy we are ok.

I don't have any close INTJ in my life to talk from that view, but you said that you otherwise have a stable and happy relationship - have you thought that perhaps he does empathize with what you are going through yourself, but that his anger comes from his personal frustration with himself, due to his inability to process his own feelings and gives you the emotional support you now need.
Obviously, he does have a history of anger issues and as someone said previously, this is probably related to high expectations he sets for himself.
You said yourself that he wants everything to be perfect - so, then feeling as though he is failing you now might be worsening his rage. It could also be even a stronger reason for his shut down (especially if you keep asking him what's bothering him - maybe that's why it would be truly better he sees a therapist).
Maybe I am way off the course, but have you thought of thinking from his perspective?

 

[Ren]

I don't know what I'm doing anymore now, I'm in this predicament of confused feelings, how can I persuade my husband to seek advice without threatening him? I've only ever once in our relationship told him I'll leave him due to something else and it really shook him but I don't want to be using this as an excuse every time shit hits the fan.

Sorry you guys are going through this.

Is there someone he knows and trusts that could talk to him about this?

I'm confused by the fact you're saying your relationship is happy 'apart from' this huge thing. If it is a huge thing then I struggle to understand how you can really be happy. (I don't mean to sound insensitive). It seems to me the way to go about this would be to precisely tell him you are not happy, but unhappy. Make sure he understands that this is not all about him; it's also about you. You don't need to, and shouldn't threaten him, but if you tell him you're unhappy and he does nothing about it, then the relationship is in serious trouble. On the other hand if you tell him you're overall happy then he might unconsciously underestimate the problem.

I get the feeling the communication isn't great between you guys at the moment, so this is probably the place to start.

 

[PapillonT]

I think I'll have another very open and honest conversation with him and remind him that he needs to tell me what's going on and I need to find out where I'm going wrong and how I can fix it.
I've been having tension headaches about this whole situation and it's so annoying.

Perhaps you are also putting too much pressure on yourself - especially if you've passed through some sad and traumatic experience, it might be counter-productive for your well-being to take a sole responsibility to fix your relationship. That is why it seems better that he speaks to a therapist.
I hope you didn't get even more confused now, sorry

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

Maybe I am way off the course, but have you thought of thinking from his perspective?

This is why I'm here! I don't want to be condescending or patronising him and asides from just airing my thoughts I just need some understanding for myself so that I know how to deal with the situation.

 

[PapillonT]

This is why I'm here! I don't want to be condescending or patronising him and asides from just airing my thoughts I just need some understanding for myself so that I know how to deal with the situation.

Perhaps alternatively you can seek advice from a professional (even online) on how to approach him, because there still might be this perspective of his inability to open up to you, especially if he might feel anger for failing to support you. Also, though your husband is INTJ, as personalities we all grow and develop through various and quite different sets of circumstances, which could be behind his issues.
I hope you find the way and the language to talk this through