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INFJs and Enneagram

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rory

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Nov 15, 2008
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I noticed, that most of INFJs are Fours on Enneagram.It comes naturally. Few INFJs are Ones or Fives.Thats fine. But I am INFJ and 6w5. I am really pissed. Why me?! I suppose, that INFJs are not so compatible with type Six. I think, that type Six is more suited for Sensors like ISFPs, ESFPs or ISFJs, not for so rare and precious INFJs. I have been so proud to be INFJ and still I am, but 6w5?!!! Its strange. Do you think that even Sixs can be smart? Because my father and grandmother/ both ISFP and 6w7/ are not very brainy. I am afraid, that I am not smarter. Do you know, why is possible to be 6w5 INFJ?! Because I think, that it is bad accident. Someone wants punish me!
How I wish I could be Four. I envy you Fours.
 
I'm a five (okay I'm probably a 5w4) and I love it. I don't want to be a four at all. I get sad when I test as one. What's wrong with being a 6w5? They sound like a good sort.
 
Five is cool. Five is better than six, but my favourite type is Four. I cored as 6w5 with 4w3 as close second and 5w4 as third. So I am in 6-4-5 triad.
I am upset to be a Six, because Sixes are anxious, fearful, vain and unisteresting. At least I feel like that. Many people think about me that I am loser or stupid, only because I am afraid to express myself and share my opinions with other people. Even my mother think, that I am stupid, useless, clumsy etc. She is ISTJ 1w2 and she is very rigid, especially with me, but also with my father. She thinks that we are brainless and lazy, but we are often only afraid. It is interesting, that my brother-ESFJ 7w8- thinks the same as well as our whole family- my other grandmother ESFJ 9w8 and my grandpa INFJ or INTJ 4w5loathe me and dad as well. To be just, my father isnt very intelligent and so are my grandmother, but people dont have right calling us names, especially our family members. But it they doing it.
I used often have problems with strange people- my classmates thought that I am "piece of shit" and my teachers was very mean with me and often doubts my intelect and skills or other people thought that I am cocky.
If I want be honest, I must told you that I am Social Six,more specifically soc/sx Six and my fear is exposed to social interaction. I always have had tought life as Six, because I am fearful in social interactions, I fear people and amongst people I feel uncomfortable.Many people feel it and make fun of me and take advantage on me or simply undervalued me. And the worst part of being Social Six is, that I need have close bounds with people, because it makes me less anxious. And thats terrible- I dont want be dependent on someone. Social Six often feel the need to be dutiful, please others, change their opinions for others etc. But I want to be individualistic,independent and comfort with myself, not act by expectations my surroundings.
I think, that if I could be Four, my life would be much better.
 
I'm a 2, 3, 5, 6... all scoring at 4

I guess i'm pretty messed up?
 
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You can be anything or any way you want to be. Just fake it til you make it, you know. No gets to determine who you are in life or what you're capable of but you. That includes family. Its ok to be underestimated as long as you don't let other people's opinions stop you from growing. If someone puts you in a box, rip it up and throw the box back in their face. Do you really want such small minded and judgmental people to think highly of you? Because I'm not sure how well that bodes for you either.

But I grow drunk off of adversity myself. I drink Haterade with every meal because it keeps me strong, sharp and objective. If someone hates me, I either change their mind, push their buttons, or ignore them completely depending on my feelings for them.
 
well, you have to embrace who you really are if you want to live with yourself. humans aren't determined by a number or a letter, after all everyone's unique, and you shouldn't base your perceptions in other people ( also, don't think our (fours) lifes are much better. it's all up to you afterall..)
 
Any MBTI type can correspond to any Enneagram type. Neither has any indication of intelligence. If anyone told you otherwise; please subert your social instinct and just punch them in the face.

It is kinda weird hearing someone say they want to be a Four. I don't think even Fours want to be Fours, but that might just be the Fourness talking. Seriously though, that wont solve your issues. I am a so/sp Four and I still have issues with individualism, expression, self-acceptance and being myself around others.

rory said:
I envy you Fours.
Click to expand...

I find this especially ironic.
 
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It is not ironic. I dont know if every Six is so anxious, indecisive, modest and weak, but I am and so my dad and grandma. Is very tough live as fearful Six in our society. Many people loathe fearful one. And whats worse, even my family loathe me, because I am anxious. My mother thinks, that anxious people are poor people.
Later, I was so fearful of people, that I wasnt be able to get out. I visited various psychologist, but they dont know to help me. One of them sent me to psychiatrist. THe psychiatrist gave me various libriums, but I was only hyperactive after them. When I was displeased with him, he told me that " fear is natural human reaction." I wish him his "natural reaction", too. So I visited another psychiatrist and she told me that I have only depression and gave me me pills. I was very hyperactive after them, too.
I know, that not every Six must have these problems, but for example my dad and grandma have it, too. I feel, that I am inherit it from them.
After I have these problems, my mother bacame very angry. She called me names,she often slaps me or beats me, because I irritate her. I feel that I irritate most peole. My mother told me thats because my anxiety. She said, that I am only stupid and lazy and she is disappointed of me. She said, that I dont have any problem, but I look for pallitations for stay home and not going to school or work. She called me dickhead and she doenst want have daughter with mental disease. She yell at me and she hurt me. She didnt be nice to me ever, but in these days is living with her is living in hell.
So, I wanted be less anxious but not because of her, but because of me.Life without fear must be nicer.Fear is the worst thing ever. And because I feel that my angst is connected to my Enneagram type, I want to be other Enneagram type or at least counterphobic Six.
But dont think, that I want to be Four because of my family or angst. I read properly descriptions of every Enneagrame type and I think, that Fours are most beautiful type ever, because of their sensitivity, emphaty and intuition.
I dont think that Enneagram is only couple of numbers. After each number is complex of characteristic, which fit most people which scored as this "number".
And I suppose, that most people want to be somene else as they are. Look for online tests- type you would like to be. Most INFJs wanted to be some other MBTI type like INTJs or ENFJs etc.
It is only naturally that people want to have something that can not have.
 
Actually, type 6 can be just about any MBTI. It's more rare for a type 6 to be INFJ, but not implausible (I've often typed 6w5, and I was into Enneagram far earlier than MBTI). Please - you have to drop all of your preconceived ideas about what's "good" and "bad" as far as Enneagram is concerned. It is what it is, and you are who you are. Plus, when you have a very healthy Enneagram type, you often take the path of integration. For Sixes, the path of Integration is Type 9. I tell you what: Until you're comfortable with who you are, you'll always show the negative side, rather than the positive one.


Enneagram simply examines your core issues, that's all, and you don't have to be tied to it. If you grow and mature, you'll type as something else. You might want to look here: http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/typecorr.htm . Someone took the time to compare Enneagram with MBTI,through the eyes of several different theorists. It's quite interesting, actually.

I'm quite fine with being 6w5, and I often advocated for Sixes on the main Enneagram forum, way back when.

Enjoy who you are and explore who you are.

Or in Six terms: Feel the fear, but do it anyway.:m032:
 
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Right now, I'm 4w3. But I've also tested and relate very well to 1, 2, 5, and 7, so generally I can count on being anything between 1-7 with the exception to 6, most of the time.

Enneagram really isn't set in stone; I believe you can change it depending on your outlook and position in life, and how you're reacting to it at the time.

Don't get down on yourself ;)
 
arbygil, you are very nice to me, thanks.
Its fine, that i am not only one 6w5 INFJ. What is worse, that I am far from healthy Six. Maybe if I could be healthy Six, I would be satisfied with my type. But as I said earlier, in our family are not healthy Six- and also not healthy other types,I think.
I like what you said about fear: feel the fear , but do it anyway.Its brilliant.
But you know, I feel, that my anxiety is unusual strong even for Six, because I fear people to much.I suppose that I have social phobia or something. I didnt find any capable psychologist to help me.Have you as another 6w5 any advice to me?
 
I think you need to spend a little time apart from your mom, rory. Its hard to grow around people like that. And I'm always scared even though people think I'm very brave. I used to get my most anxious when I wasn't in total control of a situation. But I've pretty much have grown out of that. ::hugs:: I'm sorry you're going through such a rough time.
 
Thank you Bored Now, you are nice. I value your exposal of sympathy.Seriously.
 
Meditation, rory. :) It's a 6w5's best friend. You need to find time away to bring calm to your spirit and your soul, especially if there's chaos around you. You don't need to be overstimulated. Try to find at least ten minutes a day where you can be totally alone, in a place that's quiet and calm.

This is what I do, and I've learned it recently (it really, really works):

Sit down in your quiet place, and close your eyes. Go somewhere where you won't be disturbed for about ten minutes.

Imagine that you can see your spine, and each individual vertebrae. Imagine a small circle of light, circling your vertebrae.

Let that small light circle go ten times around the base of your spine, and think of the word "safe" or "I am safe" as the light passes around the spine.

Do this for each vertebrae (you have 24 from the base of your tailbone, up to your neckbone). Imagine the point of light going up and up, and keep saying, "I am safe" while the light travels the length of your spine. When you get to the tip of your neck, do it again - from the base of your neck down, down to your tailbone.

It should take about 10 minutes...and you will feel incredibly relaxed.

Feeling relaxed is the key to making good decisions. It's easy for a 6 to get worked up, but if you relax, things will seem that much more clear and it'll be easier for you to make decisions.

Alternately, take a yoga class or do non-religious meditation.

Other than meditation, you'll need to find out who you are apart from your family. You're an important individual, and I think 6s forget how important they are (we think everyone else is important and everyone else needs the attention). Get away from that thinking - realize that you're just as important as everyone else, and that you have just as many abilities to make a difference in this world. Feel out what you can, and can't do - and if you have a panic attack, see if you can meditate through it.

Hope this little bit helps, rory!

You are loved. :mhula:
 
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as a four i want personal significance but it becomes an ego struggle to attain because we have to grapple with shame and envy. i also test highly as a six and i'm either a sp/so or so/sp.
for me core motivation is a defense mechanism which hasn't fully integrated into a more holistic sense of self-acceptance.
it's the distinctions we make between "attractive" and "unattractive" people which misguides the four's insecurity into a mistaken drive to be "special"
i actually want equality, belonging and a unified sense of humanity.

i'd rather be a 5w4 or a 9w1 but you just gotta do the best with what you have. we all wish we could be like others in some aspect but for all we know we could contain glimpses of anyone in the unconscious mind. just by the way we react to others, they become a mirror of all that we know about ourselves. it's bizarre then for me to think "poo, she's everything i'm not" when it boils down to same underlying pain, just different types of pain.
 
arcana lotus said:
i'd rather be a 5w4 or a 9w1 but you just gotta do the best with what you have. we all wish we could be like others in some aspect but for all we know we could contain glimpses of anyone in the unconscious mind. just by the way we react to others, they become a mirror of all that we know about ourselves. it's bizarre then for me to think "poo, she's everything i'm not" when it boils down to same underlying pain, just different types of pain.
Click to expand...
Enneagram shifts often throught life. It's not a core anything, but whatever motivates you currently. As you move through different phases in life, you'll prob be different Enneagrams. I used to test as a 4 when I was an adolescent and into my very early 20s. Now, I'm always a 9. It's all because my perspective has changed and that has changed my motivation.
 
It was ironic because Envy is the vice of the Four. Being ashamed of who we are and comparing ourselves to others plagues the Four like anxiety plagues the Six. Unhealthy Fours are pretty much garunteed to hate themselves, and in your situation it would only make it so much worse. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I am sorry for how your family treats you, but you must know that it is not your fault.

Look I don't know if it is possible to change Enneagram type or how but there is still potential for growth and happiness within your type, including the Six. The thing about the Enneagram types is that they each have the potential to turn their fixations into powerful positive energy that can be used for great productivity. You can't do that though if you are constantly resentful of this part of yourself and treating it like something that must be fought against. How you can actually change, I don't know. The Enneagram doesn't show us the path of change, only that it exists. Different authors may have their own suggestions but they are anecdotal and not nessesarily tied to Enneagram theory. I suggest you join and Enneagram community, not just to learn more about the subject but also as a change to an environment where you can find people who are actually accepting of you.
 
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I'm a 1w2 sx/sp/so. IMO Enneagram type and MBTI type don't correlate, MBTI has more to do with one's inborn tendencies while the Enneagram has to do more with the psychological "complexes" one has imposed by childhood. I could see an INFJ being any of the 9 Enneagram types except 7 and 8.

If anything MBTI type would be more associated with the Enneagram instinctual variants.

Self-Preservation: Ixxx and xxTx
Social: Exxx
Sexual: xxFx

So an 1w2 so/sx/sp would likely be an ENFJ while an 1w9 sp/sx/so would likely be an INTJ or ISTJ.
 
alt ctrl del said:
Enneagram shifts often throught life. It's not a core anything, but whatever motivates you currently. As you move through different phases in life, you'll prob be different Enneagrams. I used to test as a 4 when I was an adolescent and into my very early 20s. Now, I'm always a 9. It's all because my perspective has changed and that has changed my motivation.
Click to expand...

sorry probably shouldn't have used that word but i meant core as in core focus applicable also to current situation.
i didn't mean you aren't capable of other motivations strengthening, just that you can't force e-type to change before your perspective naturally shifts so in the meantime, like cuddle donor said you can find growth and happiness within your own type without resenting the vices.
 
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