INFJ vs. INFP: My/Your journey to accuracy!

So the context is already clear for many of us, there are a lot us who are genuine INFXs who are split on whether or not we share INFJ patterns or INFP patterns. It doesn't seem like it shoud be hard to discern from the surface, but I am now accutely aware of the once almost paradoxiacal source of confusion for me, and I suspect it's the same for many of us. I want to encourage people to post up how they have come to be certain of their type as well. Hopefully my story will resonate with a few people in a way that will help them dig up their true type. Stick with me through this and I think that you will agree that this is valuable, and does delve into the sources of the problem...

First off, I am indeed an INFP, and I am completely sure of that now in a thorough way, and that is a large reason for this study. Now, when I was younger and new to MBTI, I discovered that I was an INFP and was of course blown away at the power of my new found tool. As a very thougtful teenager before I discovered MBTI, I take pride in knowing that I had my own fledgling awareness of serious differences between people that I was always trying to articulate for myself. So, it became part of my eyes, because, in a lot of ways, it was already part of my eyes. So, without getting too nitty gritty at that point, I took what I found that was valuable in the system and ran with it. It was always so useful to have that construct, fully equipped and ready with the wonderful language that came along with it!

Then later, as time passed I knew that if it was going to be putting so much time and weight into it, then I need to start to explore it much deeper. And that's when I started digging much deeper into the functions themselves and their order. So it's easier to start general. I am a person who identifies strongly with my type as something that is perfectly thoughtful, and perfectly sensitive(these values perhaps placed on my shoulders by Fi). I would, almost as though I was hooking it up to my pride, idealize my type even. So, without having seen it quite as clearly as I do now, I started seeing things in the INFJ that I identified with. Suddenly that "J" seemed to represent the FIERCE perfectionist in me when it was really Fi, the dominant function of an INFP. This is also following a time when I met a very unstable INFP who was far more wild and adventurous than myself. Soon, the "spontaneous", less scheduled, more opportunity-probing parts of me had less weight than this part huge burning part of me that didn't value the sloppiness that I had seen in this other INFP(and a couple of INFPs to follow). All of the sudden, the INFP type seemed like a type too emotional and too sloppy to be given to the sort of perfect thoughtfulness that I represented. It was always so sooo important to me that the clarity and integrity of my thoughts were not sullied in any way. This was idealized ferverishly by Fi. This responsible sort of thinking started to give weight to that "responsible" and attractive-looking J. Afterall, even though "scheduling" as a comfortable trait was always so unrelatable for me, there were a LOT of things I did identify with. I am always so conscious of time, am a perfectionist on a disturbing level with many things, I would SCHEDULE my friends a consistent time to do stuff with me(this was so they didn't take TOO much of my time), and could never really relate to the sort of spontaneity that other Ps seemed to just drip. So I had my little list, and with those things in mind, I had found that Ni was the INFJ dominant trait, and Fi was the INFP dominant trait. This seemed resonated with my unstoppable bent on deep DEEP thinking and a need to have clarity and integrity in my thoughts. I thought, perhaps it's this Fi that is making these INFPs seem soooo irresponsible... I could not tolerate the thought that "feeling" was compromising the depths of my thoughts... I'll explain.

So this became especially complicated to discern because of the language of Ni vs. Ne. You see, in my journaling, well before I was into the language of the functions, I would write feverishly about "perspectives" and actually have several entries where I harped on this general idea that "everying connects to everything." I would get so excited about linking perspectives together and would be filled with pride to basically feel like I was seeing through ALL perspectives. You can find language to make this sound like Ni or Ne. I am a thinker, and these profound thought-journeys were always the pinnacle of my experience, and I was always sooo EXCITED to articulate them to myself and to others!!. That writing there really sort of represents a huge part of why I felt that my dominant function had to be Ni, when it was what I felt I held most dear to me, and was unstoppably concerned with the clarity of it all. Ne does seem to be a fluency for exposing depth and asking suggesting that implies awareness and exploring of the various sources of possible answers..... Those ideas mostly support this to be Ne, and it is my face to the world being my "expressed" function(introverts' auxilary function is extraverted), and believe me, it really is my face to the world. I think the expressed nature of Ne, and a lust an INFP has to express big abstract ideas with such haunting suggestiveness is what makes them/me seem so "weird", and ultimately, take a lot of pride in that "weirdness". It seems like INFJs largely don't pride themselves in the "weird" that you get when you are huge into Ne... But, I just couldn't shake that Ni must be my dominant, because how UNDIPENDABLE Fi MUST be... All of this sense of concern and digging around myself for the valuable things that I identify with and the "direction" I'm going turns out to be the strong conviction of Fi... Sure I'm thoughtful, and that "concern" and thoughtfulness represents something healthy and good sniffed out by the cynical endless sea of self-exploring that is Fi, with byproducts of being aware of other's "direction", value, and source of "ego".

So then there was the way I justified Fe. I always did take care of people's thoughts in the way that Fe seems to. I self-disclose myself wildly, and I work myself up in expressing strong opinions like you would notice an ESFJ doing(they are dominant Fe). It seemed so perfect, because I was always so accutely aware of the egos of the people around me, and I tailored all of my thoughts for them to react to them in predictable ways. I would even use it to sort of stirr people toward ideas that I would want them to confront in the way that I was. It always seemed so much like taking care of their feelings, when I was sort of cradling their perspetive into an idea I was getting them to approach. I will even often feel kind of mischievous, and sort of provoke parts of their perspectivs that I was aware of out of them, so that I could laugh raciously and start sort of ping-ponging back and forth about it with them. In fact this was not Fe, it was the Ne of a person inflicted with a deep carefulness brought on by Fi.

So then there is the "leadership" question as mapped out on INFJorINFP.com . INFJs are supposed to be more "directing" and INFPs are supposed to be "informing". The idea is that INFJs can basically feel comfortable delegating when it makes sense to. So, I'll take a good example presented by Vicki Joe(the author of that site): When a light turns green, a directing type will say "go" while the inclinination of an informing type will be to say "the light is green". Always, an informer will want to bring about action naturally in the person by informing them, and a director will have less a problem being, well, direct, and delegating. For me, I am CLEARLY an informing type. I am never direct with people, there is always a layer of "padding" always. Besides being a student of psychology and Japanese, I am part of a management team at a videogame store, and I just do not delegate directly. Even there, I merely equip people with the information they need to be sucessful and show them why they should form certain habits, and then hope wildly that I can inspire those good actions without pressing, or else I'm in BIG trouble.

So the next thing that complicates this question with leadership that gave me hope in being an INFJ was this idea that INFJs are map-makers and INFPs were behind-the-scenes leaders. The INFJs are about ANTICIPATING and then forming a plan to meet those goals with that bent on anticipating, and INFPs are about basically about sort of coralling the team's perspective together and motivating them in whatever area "behind-the-scenes". For me, anticipating was always such a big part of my persuasion. Like any INFJ, I could talk myself out of anything for problems I was anticipating, and when forming plans and equipping coworkers, it could be argued that I was mapping out a course of action by sort of accounting for expected future problems. So, the idea is that INFPs sort of integrate ideas together a lot, and it's part of their very leadership. I have people tell me regularly that I can never give a simple ANSWER, it is always about consolidating pieces of information wildly until the person is back to demanding an answer. This is very much INFP.

The fact is, my bent on informing and sort of consolidating and integrating important information far outweighs the passing resemblance of "map-making" that I have... I caught myself doing the INFP thing recently, when a couple of co-managers were going at it, deep into conflict, and coming to me separately and alone to make sense of it, where at that point, I did sort of baby them into the other person's perspective to inspire that feeling of common ground, which motivated both of them to sort of listen to eachother and try to be tolerant once again... The usefulness of my "behind-the-scenes" leadership could not be any more overt.

So then there is making peace with Fi... Fi is a tricky thing, and it's obviously not readily relatable even for a genuine INFP. Some of what I have to say may not be exactly related to Fi, but you may get a sense that Fi is the feeling of weight and depth behind the wild rambling of an INFP that they think should be apparent, and why INFPs get disinterested with details irrelevant to the weightiness of the true depth of a person or idea. To say that a type is always digging into themselves and how they "feel" to decide the "value" of something is not a pretty idea for a a couple of reasons. To say it is contributing to a deep sense of "identity" doesn't help either. It even seems offensive, because it should be about the validity of the thoughts that INFPs have so dear to them. How can someone who prides themselves in bounding about perspectives with ease and then helping others to do so to approach ideas more idealisticly be taken seriously with such a sloshy-sounding function? It even comes accross as self-centered in many people's perspective of it. My explanation for this is that when an INFP is sort of talking about themselves again within the context of a discussion, it's as though I expect the way I have figured myself out to map to the other person in an abstract way, which, honstly, the connection can always be made. Well, after a lot of digging around, I have my own description of Fi as I relate to it. Fi is a judging/deciding function, and it is the dominant function of an INFP, it's just an inward-facing one. Fi is a particularly powerful deciding function, and it has been said that INFPs may actually be the most judgemental of all of the types for the strength of their Fi... In some circles, it would actually make sense to call INFPs the Js and INFJs the Ps, because the INFPs dominant function being Fi. Which actually makes a lot of sense for why a person who is INFP, with this weighty and thick deciding function with huge demands of their identity, would feel like a J, because of the sort of perfectionism that Fi sort of demands of the INFP to identify with that thing that they find valuable. The "identity" and "value" that the Fi represents and seeks is described as an endless ocean with convictions that are not necessarily clear and easily articulated.

For me, the very quest for accuracy is met with a sort of deep weightiness that is hinted at by Fi. I know that ideas are valuable for their ability to get at a deeper meaning, and that deeper meaning is defined with great weight by the convictions of value inherent in the "feelings" of Fi. It is a sea of a sense of value that I am always scanning for in the masses of ideas so liberally layed out before me. It is about scanning those perspectives, and noticing parts of them that offend that sense of value, and then needing to sort of TEAR through them to figure out exactly why... I AM judgemental, and regularly I will have to sort of calm my need to condemn that ill-willed and "animal" sense I get from people's attitudes and how they reinforce their "ego". This sort of heightened sense of "will" and "direction" in the perspectives and attitudes of those around me is profoundly loud, and isn't one I articulate readily. It's easy to imagine that this is like Ni and has startling parallels in the weighty and almost "psychic" perspectives they conjure up. Fi works quickly, and is piercingly cynical for the speed that it wants to sort of fire forth the INFP into a particular direction about an idea or person, and from their the INFP bounces off the walls excitedly articulating big ideas and helping people to approach them.

To me, Fi had appeared to represent a "perceptiveness" in that it sniffs out people's "direction" as I describe it, and also the way their ego is. I can smell ego, and how a person is saying what they are saying often directly because it. This "direction" that a person is going is what I try to impossibility explain to them and to others. That "direction" is something that I believe is conjured up by Fi teamed with Ne. Fi enables that sort of exploring of my own value and way I reinforce my own ego, and from their I find many ways to map that to other people. There are very bad directions that people take, and I can just feel them, and have to hold my self back from condemning people for them. I sniff it out in part by being very aware of how someone is handling the general idea of "ego". People are always reinforcing their ego in some fashion, and I can sense their "direction" quickly in how they sort of go about that, surely amoung many other things just as difficult to articulate. Perhaps it is the way that Fi does cause an INFP to dig within their sense of self to find meaning do I come to see "ego" and "direction" with psychic clarity, because of how I witness constantly the way that I manage my own, and with conviction that it is in a GOOD direction. I imagine that the weighty and perceptive way that an INFP is about their own ego, their sense of self, is why they are so ready to approach others to discover how they seem to be holding themselves up... To be a healthy, well-adjusted, and effective INFP, is to have a very flexible ego in order to battle the convictions, directions, and egos of other types. So anyway, Fi is about smelling value, and not necessarily about being emotional, or having perspectives sullied by emotion. An INFP sees that perspective itself IS driven by the various values people hold, directions they are going, or way they are handling their ego.



So, in the end, it was as I had feared, there were things about my Fi that were disrupting the accuracy of deciding my type because of the boggling weight I placed on certain things, but it was not like I expected. The integrity of my thoughts weren't necessarily compromised when the very depth and value of the thoughts themselves could not be decided and applied by anything less than Fi...

Besides, I am a percieving type, I can hardly read through an article without skipping around to different paragraphs on impulse! I try hard to make my schedule as open as I can to avoid a confined feeling, and so I can explore things as freely as I want to. I was always suspicious that stucture, as it worked for SJs, was different for intuitive types who were judging. I think that I have sort of taken it upon myself to begin to have a dependable order amoungst a depth-inspecting chaotic mind. It has been important to me to have physical things in my life that I could deem perfect, and organize my various collections meticulously. I even always had that sort of concern and "safeness" that many SJs seem to drip, but in fact it just isn't about whether I am a J, and complicated by the weight of the judging function of Fi.

 

So, the rest of it maybe isn't as loud an example as the way that little story panned out, but there is indeed a lot of other things. Like INFPs having this sort of bent to be drawn to dark and morbid thoughts and ideas. I relate to this. I think it has a lot to do with the I, as an INFP, searches myself so thoroughly and cynically, to find that "good" direction, that I sort of sniff out the more menacing and ugly parts, and sort of need to infuse these parts, or my awareness of them, with pride at various junctures. So, if I look at my friends and curl my face into a haunting and menacing gesture, it's to suggest that I am aware of the haunting, sordid, and menacing parts of all of us. This smells thickly of Fi to Ne.

 

Heh, I can relate to that... And I'll take this is an opportunity to flesh out more of the trouble areas. There are some things that make it difficult to swallow. I want to quote a post I found from Satya:

This: "I will only tolerate those who tolerate me because only those who can tolerate me are worthy of my tolerance." This seems like it would be nearly impossible for an INFP to accept. Afterall, myself as an INFP, I take a lot of abuse for the sake of supporting the various angles on ideas I know to be most valuable, for more responsible attitudes, for the defense of the more downtrodden, and for various forms of idealism in general. Though, of course, being a well-adjusted INFP, I know that when some people are doing everything they can to try and rip my ways apart, it is often still clear that I have their ear and cooperation still, and so I continue on in defense of a better idea knowing that they are not an unnacceptable sort of closed and intolerant.

But, in spite of how well I take on resistence, it's always amidst what I sense to be a tolerance, especially knowing that they are at least open enough to be still be arguing and in a dialogue that has hints of cooperation. I have noticed that I often take an attitude, that if someone is completely closed off or intolerant of something that didn't deserve that intolerance, I will regard it as a sort of "filter". For people to be a certain kind of "closed" and intolerant, I will condemn them readily as if they have failed a VERY important test....

 

By the way, if anyone reads this and has an argument that this all sounds very INFJ, I'd love to hear it(and of course anyone's ideas on their journey to accuracy). I am certain that I am an INFP, but I can think of why I would sound like an INFJ. Afterall, the self-transformative, explorative, and perspective-scaling ways of Ni are relatable for me and I suspect many other INFPs, and then it's not hard to imagine that possibly just being excitedly communicated through the sensitive, decisive, and opinionated Fe. I am sure of my INFP functions now, but it is still pretty interesting to explore how that was difficult to discern.

 

Good sir, yours is a communication I really appreciate. Before I begin, let me tell you that your sort of intuition is the kind that is the most vibrant and relatble for me, and it's not a kind that you can really expect to find. I just want to say I feel a sense of clarity on this that I now will have to try to get a comforable grip on enough to communicate properly, so I hope you will have patience with me as this fleshes out into a more complete picture...

I can see parts of myself in you in a large way, and it may or may not only be the Ne. I have to say, it almost looks like you've set up a puzzle and layed out the pieces while already basically knowing what the picture is, and, being a fellow Ne user, our puzzle's pieces are a little wobbly, but still. I want to emphasize that I in no way want to downplay how much I relate to you, and in a jarring way, but, long story short, I'm starting to think that there is the possibility that you are an ENFP, even with all of your comments about socializing in mind(I'll launch into fussy counter-examples later). You have such a wild breadth of ideas that you are springing around confidentely at all times, and the confidence at which you use and display your Ne and how liberally you do so just screams it to me.

I have thought of a test.......It has occured to me that this could end up feeling a bit... offputting... But it's out of a VERY cooperative effort. So please bear with me. Shun those dissillusioned feelings for a bit. I am going to say something that would cause a pretty strong stir in me in one direction(a decidely INFP one), and I think in an ENFP, the stirring would be in a whole other direction....... So here it is: When I read your writing Horsehop, it causes me to feel insecure. It's like I'm looking at someone I really relate to, and that they roughly have my same tools, but at the same time, it's as though they have some kind of key... It's as though they are flaunting a key to enter a space that I simply do not have access to. I covet that space, and see why they would enter it, but I myself can not cannot maintain view of the entrance, or simply do not have the key to enter... You seem to be fluent with my tools, and seem to be wielding some that are alien to me. Or, perhaps I just cannot throw mine down in defeat...

So, before you think I'm crazy or something, know that I'm much too mature to really enter the insecure space that I have produced with that picture. I have simply grown too much. Though it is the way an ENFP of my past had made me feel, and I suppose I'm still not immune to that sort of pitifullness. But, depending on how it provokes you, I think could be a dependable sign. You actually have possibly already displayed this a little, but, as an INFP, if someone wrote something like that to me, I would be shaken hard and would want to enter a completely sober and rational space to show them that they are NOT missing ANYTHING, and that everyone has the tools available to them to enter a complete space that also isn't missing anything. I would strip myself down to it's horrible small basic pieces to reveal a less intimidating picture and show them the steps I've had to take to realize and ensure my own confidence. With ENFPs, I suspect that while they do not intend harm on anyone, this is the kind of thing that they feed on and spurrs them on wildly, to then know that they are the sage they were trying to display and then to be the champions of their great quest that they know their breadth of tools will back up.

So here's the thing, I think that you have sort of demonstrated that section of yourself that wants to remain congruent, that has that anchoring sober space that worries immensly about the "validation" of others, coming back to that basic humbled space that is the weight of Fi. More on that later...

I think that Ne just keeps getting more and more excited be certain interactions, and just keeps flying toward that juicy intuition meat that they see in their minds, and know that others should value and be inspired by that bright and engaging vision. I relate to it as an INFP with HUGE Ne. But I think that Fi has this HUGE need to make myself and others feel "validated"(unless of course I've a sense of a person that does not deserve that respect because of some glaring ill-will). That sense for "validation" congruent with good directions and good-will I think cannot be overestimated...

So I want to focus in on some things you said to get deeper into a point I'm trying to nail:

So with saying that I believe that you have eyed something that I believe underlied my concern for the entire duration of my writing of those ideas, and I suspect that you are somewhat aware of it. It's what "hypocracy" represents that is horrifying and keeps me never far off from completely sobering myself to decide that something just isn't consistent. I had effectively related strongly with the merrits of certain types to the point where I was identifying with them. It's not to say that those merrits aren't a part of me, but it does bother me to know that my thoughts are connected to my identity and ego in a way to obscure the actual thoughts and I could produce anything that ever seemed hypocritical. I think that Fi of the INFP and of the ENFP keeps us genuine, and has a weight to it to anchor us down from the sky-surfing of Ne...

I can see it in your writing. You are so proud of your tools and display them confidently, but also seem to have that mind to come back down and sort of fuss over that weighty feeling that needs whatever the Fi values, and will search itself until we know we can rightfully at least feel comfortable. Maybe I'm crazy in thinking that that mess of an idea is Fi, but I think it is.

Here's the thing, as an INFP who knows the pride to be had in the skillful display of Ne, it does bother me to admit to myself that the weight and nature of Fi does keep me from fully realizing the uninhibited full-flight of Ne... And I think that's where ENFPs come in... But, you have that sort of sobering concern that I relate to. So either you are an ENFP, of just a really fucking smart INFP. Hahaha! I don't mean to say that in a dividing way whatsoever. Hahaha! In fact, I doubt an ENFP would settle down and devote that much time as you did to excite themselves into entering these ideas with an INFP. But, of course, maybe you are just a really fucking smart ENFP. Hahaha!

As for the Enneagram, I am probably not as fluent as you are there, but fluent enough to know that I am a type five with a four wing(I suspect that many enneagram folks despise the existence of wings) and not the other way around. And I also know enough to be a little surprised that you are a nine, but I have a lot to learn. You seem like me in that you are dangerously close to being almost entirely cerebral, and that just seems so five. I actually have enneagram books on my shelf waiting for me to invest time into them.

Yes, I can definately relate to this, HARD. If I map out the fruitfullness of everything in my mind, and then explore those big viewing moments to sort of feel out the all or many of the angles I coud possibly expect, even the negative ones that take some battling, it can get to the point where it's like I have already gotten the meaningful fruit out of it without having to bother with actually experiencing it. I feel like I only need to "understand" something as completely as possible before I'm ready to move on from it... Which actually feels ugly to the point that I have a hard time writing it, that last part, so I know there really is a lot more to it, so I'll just stop that idea there for now.

So of course, feel free to disagree, but it's clear to me that neither of us is the Fe type. Fe to me is a more tangible and expressed sort of caretaking that has its gives and its takes clear. At no point are you and me showing our "warm fireplace" ways in any natural way like the INFJs. I think that Fi wants to enter a space that can assume cooperation without whatever it is that Fe manages in an expressed way. Fe seems to make itself known with more weight on the warm gestures. But, don't pay too much attention to that if it seems too out-of-touch with what Fe more basically is, because I spend a lot of time with Fe dominant people, and the idea gets bigger and starts mixing together with a mess of other things.

And with that I think I'm going to chill, because at least at this point, I feel like maybe it's a bit more clear that I may represent a sort of thoughtfullness that you do, even if you are an ENFP. Which by the way, I think that even with a seemingly introverted lifestyle, an ENFP can sort of find tricks to engage the outward-facing stirring and stimulation that Ne demands, which seems like an unfair way to introduce too much convolusion, but I'm having a hard time kicking the possibility that you might be an ENFP, or maybe that you are like me, a confident and comfortably weird INFP and just proudly displaying that Ne to whatever consequence.