INFJ & Enneagram

[Cecilff2]

I'm a male and a balanced 9 and I'd say it fits for the most part

 

[rainrise]

This makes perfect sense Rainrise. 5s seem to reject people as both the

 

[rainrise]

I've often wondered if males exaggerate thinking/females exaggerate feeling function.

well the culture seems to socialize us into doing so. maybe not exaggerate, but in the case that the male has F and the female has T, its likely that they may downplay those natural functions when faced with a conventional social situation. this is not for all of course, just a rough generalisation.

 

[Shaz]

I'm a 4w5 girl and as feminine as it gets. Partly due to childhood things and subcounsciously wanting to be different from my autistic brother (complicated stuff but that explains my very undevelopped masculine side).

My boyfriend is a 5w4 INTP. It's funny because he is extremely artistic which is viewed as typically feminine, but his approach to art is very masculine. Needless to say he's not very good with expressing his emotions in words, etc. Very brainy guy, doesn't feel anything for people in general. Doesn't need them, etc. This said he is more romantic than most INTPs I think. He has this chivalrous ideal, which I don't really share. When it comes to relationships I'm not very idealistic.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I'm 4w3 female.

Basically, this means I need people to tell me how wonderful I am, and I like to do things that get people to tell me that.

 

[v.shadow]

I'ma 4w5 female.

by the way, does anyone else feel that enneagrams are somehow more accurate than the MBTI? (in my case they are)

 

[VH]

8w9

However, the Enneagram is based on determining how our fears motivate us as a personality indicator. It's not based on cognitive processes, and therefore won't be especially accurate as a fit with the MBTI types.

There will likely be common type combinations, but those are likely due to similar life experiences that led to similar fears, and thus compensation mechanisms.

As an 8, I'm afraid of not being in control due to a very traumatic childhood, and my personality has developed a lot of traits to defend me against such. However, I'm inherently a seeker of peace, justice, benevolence, and tranquility, causing my lean toward the 9 wing. Nothing makes me angrier than someone who offends my sense of how things should be (aka my Fe), and thus triggers my defense mechanisms, which are extremely typical of an 8.

Edit (the next day) : I studied up on the Enneagram a little more, and realized I am actually a 1w9. Heh, reading my own explanation above now looks extremely 1 to me. Sorry guys. I was misinformed about Enneagram enough to mistype myself ... with enthusiasm, hehe.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

That makes sense. I think I'm a wing 3 because of the fact that I have an ENTJ twin sister -- that provided a lot of need to be noticed and competition to create that, and a sort of fear of rejection and failure

 

[rainrise]

I'ma 4w5 female.

by the way, does anyone else feel that enneagrams are somehow more accurate than the MBTI? (in my case they are)

now that you mention, i used to find the enneagram interesting, but did not take it seriously. however, as i read more into it, i must say that now i find it very much relevant. i think my change of opinion had to do largely with the fact that i mistyped myself in the past and so didn't see much value in my type description.

for me, the MBTI is pretty dead-on, but i would say that the enneagram fills in many of the details regarding how my life is coloured.

when i came on this forum, i came to find that though most of us here are INFJs, there seemed to be differences between how we all approached questions, expressed opinions, related, and so on.

in fact, i think many members share their approaches or resemble each other in their writing and i'm not sure, but i had an inkling it had something (but not all) to do with their enneagram preferences.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

^^ That's a good point. I don't like to use enneagram in and of itself, but I do like it in combination with MBTI and other personality matrices...it seems to really help build on them and explain differences in thinking between people of the same type

 

[arbygil]

I used to feel really strongly about Enneagram (I started there first) and then I got into the MBTI. I think the combination of both can help build a much clearer picture of the Self - what makes us tick, as it were.

I frequently test as a 9w1 now, but I used to be a die-hard 6w5. I think once I let go of my fears and just let myself "be" I ended up as a 9. Very few things frustrate/upset me anymore.

But I have to say, although INFJ 4s are fairly common, there are other Enneagrams out there for INFJs that are just as interesting.

 

[VH]

I used to feel really strongly about Enneagram (I started there first) and then I got into the MBTI. I think the combination of both can help build a much clearer picture of the Self - what makes us tick, as it were.

The MBTI is based on cognitive functions - how our minds are wired for perception and reasoning. The Enneagram is based on how our psychology defends us against our inherent fears. These two systems have very little overlap, and are therefore compatible in forming a larger picture of personality. The MBTI is more an assessment of inclinations. The Enneagram is more of an assessment of reactions.

They seem to be like peanut butter and chocolate. With the correct approach to each of their use, they could make a wonderful flavor. With an incorrect approach to either of their uses, the flavor of both are ruined.

I frequently test as a 9w1 now, but I used to be a die-hard 6w5. I think once I let go of my fears and just let myself "be" I ended up as a 9. Very few things frustrate/upset me anymore.

I have done a little research, and realized that I am not an 8w9. It appears that I'm a 1w9. And I have to say, it is a very close call against a 9w1. The 9 is strong in me, almost as much as the 1. I had been mistaking the description of 8 for my 1 traits because I was going through a very unhealthy phase where I was extremely aggressive about making things right. As with you, once I started to let go of my fears, I could see myself more clearly. (Realizing I am close to a midpoint between 1 and 9, I think I'm going to claim 0 as my Enneagram number, hehe.)

But I have to say, although INFJ 4s are fairly common, there are other Enneagrams out there for INFJs that are just as interesting.

Agreed. Though here is something interesting consider adding to the INFJ/4 connection... I read that 1s and act like 4s when unhealthy, 2s act like 4s when healthy, while 4s act like 1s when healthy, and 2s when unhealthy. I'm noticing a trend around the 4 axis. Most of the INFJs have either a type or a wing that is either 4 or ties to 4. Even your 1 wing ties to 4. Interesting, though possibly coincidental.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

4 has a lot to do with feeling different from the world around them. I think that's a very common theme that a lot of INFJs can relate to.

In general, there are a lot of areas where INFJs can connect to the fears of the 4s

 

[IndigoSensor]

I'm a 5w4, and it describes me very well. The 5 is stronger in me because, while I do have a care of other peoples and emotions (which is my 4 wing), my forefront is asking why and figuring things out about myself and the world. I just place a strong emphesis of human relations and understanding people.

To quote wikipedia, this fit's me 100%! (bold for super accuracy):

"Fives with a dominant Four wing: The Four wing produces an emotional "charge" that complements the five's mental intensity. They are emotionally sensitive and easily overwhelmed, yet at the same time driven to explore their emotional landscapes, often by deliberately entering dark, esoteric, or disturbing arenas of thoughts. Compared to 5w6s, 5w4s have a more intuitive, non-rational approach to knowledge, which can lead to both aesthetic awareness and open defiance of established ideas. They can be compulsively individualistic in their thoughts at the expense of their usefulness or social implications, and then look distantly down at those whom they "left behind" as they bask in more fantastical and otherworldly speculations. Their emotions, at the same time, agitate, stoke, and unsettle their ideas, imbuing them with a dreamlike, sometimes nightmarish quality.
When unhealthy, this subtype can be one of the most alienated of all personality types, almost completely isolated from others, and full of self-hate. There is usually some degree of schizotypalideas of reference, entertain odd beliefs and engage in magical thinking. They often have unusual perceptual experiences, e.g. illusions, sensing the presence of a force or person not actually present. And frequently they exhibit odd or eccentric behavior or appearance, e.g. odd speech, an unkempt appearance, unusual mannerisms, and talking to self. Usually they have no close friends or confidants (or only one) other than first-degree relatives. Their affect is often inappropriate or constricted, e.g. they are silly, aloof, rarely reciprocating gestures or facial expressions, such as smiles or nods. They are disposed to suspiciousness and paranoid ideation."

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I didn't know wikipedia had areas that described that! I'll have to look into that

 

[arbygil]

The MBTI is based on cognitive functions - how our minds are wired for perception and reasoning. The Enneagram is based on how our psychology defends us against our inherent fears. These two systems have very little overlap, and are therefore compatible in forming a larger picture of personality. The MBTI is more an assessment of inclinations. The Enneagram is more of an assessment of reactions.

They seem to be like peanut butter and chocolate. With the correct approach to each of their use, they could make a wonderful flavor. With an incorrect approach to either of their uses, the flavor of both are ruined.

Absolutely - I'd agree with that. And I do believe we have to be cautious with the two and not make assumptions because of certain issues going on in our lives. I've always been "low-key" for lack of another word, but when issues go on in my life things change (and I'll get to that in something else you wrote in a second...)

I have done a little research, and realized that I am not an 8w9. It appears that I'm a 1w9. ...As with you, once I started to let go of my fears, I could see myself more clearly. (Realizing I am close to a midpoint between 1 and 9, I think I'm going to claim 0 as my Enneagram number, hehe.)

Lol! You could try. Or maybe you're simply in one of your triads. Enneagram can get a bit complicated with the triads, but they can make sense, too, if you're going through an interesting time of life.

Agreed. Though here is something interesting consider adding to the INFJ/4 connection... I read that 1s and act like 4s when unhealthy, 2s act like 4s when healthy, while 4s act like 1s when healthy, and 2s when unhealthy. I'm noticing a trend around the 4 axis. Most of the INFJs have either a type or a wing that is either 4 or ties to 4. Even your 1 wing ties to 4. Interesting, though possibly coincidental.

I don't think anyone's brought up the Triad idea of the Enneagram yet - it's the idea that you default to a lower (or a higher) function depending on how healthy you are: http://enneagramtriads.com/html/the_18_triads.html

Each number has a triad: 1-4-7; 2-5-8; 3-6-9...and all combinations in between. If you're a 6, you can "act" like a 9 if you're comfortable with who you are. In the same way 1s can act like 4s when they're unhealthy, and so forth.

I wouldn't take a lot of stock into it, but it is an interesting take on the Enneagram and how we might test one way but act another.

 

[VH]

I don't think anyone's brought up the Triad idea of the Enneagram yet - it's the idea that you default to a lower (or a higher) function depending on how healthy you are: http://enneagramtriads.com/html/the_18_triads.html

Each number has a triad: 1-4-7; 2-5-8; 3-6-9...and all combinations in between. If you're a 6, you can "act" like a 9 if you're comfortable with who you are. In the same way 1s can act like 4s when they're unhealthy, and so forth.

I wouldn't take a lot of stock into it, but it is an interesting take on the Enneagram and how we might test one way but act another.

Interesting... because I've continued to research the Enneagram types, I am now strongly leaning toward my being a 1w2. I was mistaking 9's need for tranquility for 2's love need, just like I was mistaking 8's assertiveness with 1's drive and perfectionism. As proof of my 1 type, I rarely post without editing my errors at least once. My 2 type is evidenced by how I'm always trying to help others, but it is a wing because I'm more concerned with the truth than a bedside manner.

However, now that I have realized my type, I can attest to the validity of your theory. 1, 4, 7, 2, 5, and 8 are all pretty good descriptions for me, and in that order. 1 with 4 and 7 are my base reactions/mechanisms, while 2 with 5, and 8 are my secondaries... kinda like how Ni and Fe complient each other, but my Ti and Se are also strong.

From what I have read, most people have one main fear that drives their defense mechanisms and needs, but some of us have more. Most people are at their core a balanced Enneagram type. Some people have a strong wing, and others have two strong wings. Because my issues are so deep, my Enneagram personality traits are also very broad. This implies that there is a hidden connection to cognitive functions... not with respect to the order of our functions, because function order is unrelated to our fears, but to the degree to which we develop our functions since stress is the greatest factor in function development and stress is a byproduct of our fears.

This makes me consider the possibility that the width of someone's Enneagram base is proportional to how well developed their cognitive functions are.

 

[arbygil]

From what I have read, most people have one main fear that drives their defense mechanisms and needs, but some of us have more. Most people are at their core a balanced Enneagram type. Some people have a strong wing, and others have two strong wings. Because my issues are so deep, my Enneagram personality traits are also very broad. This implies that there is a hidden connection to cognitive functions... not with respect to the order of our functions, because function order is unrelated to our fears, but to the degree to which we develop our functions since stress is the greatest factor in function development and stress is a byproduct of our fears.

This makes me consider the possibility that the width of someone's Enneagram base is proportional to how well developed their cognitive functions are.

Interesting indeed! I think you're on to something. I call it "maturity" (not necessarily in age, but in wisdom, knowledge, etc). When we finally "grow up" we usually have lesser fears (or we learn to conquer those fears we have). In doing so, we've changed our fear and our Ennegram, to a point. The theories of integration and disintegration are really interesting, and I think they can explain much as well.

I like using both theories to bring a balanced view - they make sense.

 

[Jayce]

I'm a gay female and I tested 4w5.

I'd say I have a more androgynous appearance but leaning towards the feminine side of the spectrum. I've never really liked girly clothes and prefer jeans and a cool t-shirt. Up until high school, the majority of my friends were male. I appreciated their lack of cattyness and we just shared more common interests (video games, trading card games, etc). I was very much "one of the guys."

I suppose I act more feminine because I'm caught up in my feelings and the well being of people around me. I don't really exude any sort of maleness. I don't think I radiate sexuality either.

 

[VH]

Here are my more recent quiz results. I'm fairly certain my self assessment is accurate, and I know I am undoubtedly an INFJ.

I'm clearly not a 4, nor a 4 wing. There is no direct association with MBTI type and Enneagram type.

Sorry.