[INFJ] INFJ Career Advice / What career track should I pursue?

[NicoleGregg]

Hello INFJ's,
I need advice, I start university in 2014 and well, I am at a loss on what I want to attain a degree in. However I plan to minor in photography for an outlet and will enroll in courses on the side in sexuality, gender, and queer studies as well as art practices. I am at this time interested in biological oceanography and I think I would accomplish satisfaction in the workplace but the salary is low and the amount of field positions are sparse. Biological science was a favorite course of mine in high school though and I would be pleased to travel and explore the waters, I find the ocean quite a mysterious place. A career I have repeatedly considered is working in international development, I think I would like this area of work as I like to assist others and learn about cultures and as I said already travel is a passion of mine. I even went to East Africa for a month this summer and the experience is one I will never forget, and I sincerely liked conversing amongst the locals. But I acknowledge pay for positions within the international development field is low, and might not provide for a comfortable life. A newer consideration is a career as a city planner, I like to think of it as development but on a smaller scale, I could plan transit systems and revitalize parks and help provide low-income housing to people who need it. But I can not fathom sitting behind a desk 24/7. It would appreciate it immensely if you could recommend careers, or share your career with me. I am open to whatever recommendations you have unless it is as a counselor or psychologist, I have had bad experiences in the past and I am personally against these professions but other than that I am available to consideration. Thank you for you time.

 

[isabellajay]

Let me tell you something - always do what you love. I've been in your position before and it's not really fun; it's just confusing and frustrating. Go to college and do some general classes, as well as classes that interest you. I did that and it confirmed for me that I indeed wanted to be an illustration major. You'll figure it out. And p.s. I wish money didn't matter so much in our world. There are so many people who aren't doing what they love because of money issues. I would try and go for your desires even if pay is low. You'll be much happier. sending well wishes your way.

 

[Shaqie]

Whatever joys your heart!

 

[Radiantshadow]

Indulge your passions, that your time might be best filled.

 

[lawruhn]

I agree. Try to take some courses in areas that interest you, and fulfill requirements at the same time. I'm a career & academic counselor, so if you have any specific questions, feel free to message me. It's my career to work with college students!

 

[kitty125]

The best idea is to work towards one type of career, like your biological oceanography and then have backup options related to your first choice. So you could do a major in bio, and then specialize in your oceanography field in year 3 or 4, or pursue an MSc in order to specialize in something. It's realllly important to plan ahead in university, because the four years will fly by. I wish someone had told me this when I was starting out. Maybe you could minor in sexuality and gender, or just take these classes as electives. But I definitely wouldn't focus on them if you don't plan on pursuing a career related to such. Plus, you can always take uni courses after you graduate, i.e. evening classes after work. I'm going to do that next winter, cuz there are sooo many interesting things to learn!

 

[Gul Dukat]

I'm going to be the guy who ruins it for you and tell you that you really shouldn't set your sights on just one thing and 'do what you love' isn't always going to work out for you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy your work, but if you're into biology then there are all kinds of things that you can do that will pay well and are in demand, and in the end you'll still be able to travel and do the things that you love. And if you can make enough doing something that is in demand then you can always go your own way once you're secure and established and have some experience.

Chances are you're not going to have just one job for the rest of your life no matter what you get into... most people don't just get one job and then that's their life-- they move around all the time and a lot of these industries are connected so you might be able to jump into what you really want to do after you meet the right people. But then, you might end up loving something else and be happy that you went that way and not want to switch.

I would worry about the position you're describing because no matter how dedicated or great you think you are someone else is always going to be more dedicated or as good plus they have connections or someone liked their smile... I've seen totally incompetent people get ahead of the better candidates because they were connected or because they 'fit in' better. If you get into something where there is less competition, this isn't so much of an issue.

So yeah, my advice is be open to similar fields and look for the best opportunities as opposed to focusing on the same thing everyone is focusing on with only a sketchy plan and a dream to get you there. You don't need all the money in the world to be happy but if you can't get a job and end up stuck in something completely unrelated to what you wanted to do with all kinds of debt and broken dreams, I promise you will not be able to enjoy your life.

 

[Gul Dukat]

I agree. Try to take some courses in areas that interest you, and fulfill requirements at the same time. I'm a career & academic counselor, so if you have any specific questions, feel free to message me. It's my career to work with college students!

Please don't take this the wrong way, but how did a 22 year old get to be a career and academic counselor?

 

[Sensiko]

I'm going to be the guy who ruins it for you and tell you that you really shouldn't set your sights on just one thing and 'do what you love' isn't always going to work out for you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy your work, but if you're into biology then there are all kinds of things that you can do that will pay well and are in demand, and in the end you'll still be able to travel and do the things that you love. And if you can make enough doing something that is in demand then you can always go your own way once you're secure and established and have some experience.

Chances are you're not going to have just one job for the rest of your life no matter what you get into... most people don't just get one job and then that's their life-- they move around all the time and a lot of these industries are connected so you might be able to jump into what you really want to do after you meet the right people. But then, you might end up loving something else and be happy that you went that way and not want to switch.

I would worry about the position you're describing because no matter how dedicated or great you think you are someone else is always going to be more dedicated or as good plus they have connections or someone liked their smile... I've seen totally incompetent people get ahead of the better candidates because they were connected or because they 'fit in' better. If you get into something where there is less competition, this isn't so much of an issue.

So yeah, my advice is be open to similar fields and look for the best opportunities as opposed to focusing on the same thing everyone is focusing on with only a sketchy plan and a dream to get you there. You don't need all the money in the world to be happy but if you can't get a job and end up stuck in something completely unrelated to what you wanted to do with all kinds of debt and broken dreams, I promise you will not be able to enjoy your life.

^^^ all of this

i feel like a lot of times i come across as a debbie downer so i refrain from giving my “wahh-wahhhh” opinion because i’m really trying to be more optimistic lol... but since i completely agree with what Gul Dukat has said, i second his post!!!

 

[MindYourHead]

^^^ all of this

i feel like a lot of times i come across as a debbie downer so i refrain from giving my “wahh-wahhhh” opinion because i’m really trying to be more optimistic lol... but since i completely agree with what Gul Dukat has said, i second his post!!!

X3 on what [MENTION=8720]Gul Dukat[/MENTION] said.

 

[lawruhn]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but how did a 22 year old get to be a career and academic counselor?

I held many positions during my undergraduate education that were focused on advising, counseling and leadership, so I've been doing this type of work since I was 19 years old. That lent itself well for getting me into graduate school, where I am pursuing a Masters of Education degree in Counseling and Student Affairs Administration. I am a full time graduate student and also working as an academic and career counselor at a University. Does that answer the question?

 

[paisley1]

This is good advice, but on the other hand, settling for something because it's more convenient and practical can backfire too. I wanted to be a studio art or illustration major, but I ended up majoring in graphic design instead. Partly because it was the only visual arts major my college offered (and at the time I thought this college was my only option), and partly because I caved into the pressure to find a career path. Most people don't believe you can make a career out of art. I wish I hadn't listened to them.

I didn't enjoy graphic design. I stuck with it because I still thought it was my only option, and I thought I could tolerate it as a career even if I'd really rather be an artist of some sort. But the closer I drew to graduation, the more I realized that I just wasn't cut out to be a graphic designer. You can force yourself to do something you don't love, you can even work hard at it—but in the end, if you're not passionate about what you're doing, are you going to be able to compete with those who are? Even if I do manage to find work as a graphic designer (which honestly, I haven't tried very hard because I just don't want to), I won't be a very successful one. Or a great one. And I don't want to do something for a living that I'm only mediocre at.

So that's something to think about. People who advise you to go forego your dreams and go for something more practical, miss the fact that if you're not great at that particular job you will still fail. If you go after something you love, you're at least guaranteed the satisfaction of doing it just for its own sake. If you go after something you're not passionate about, and you don't become successful at it, you're left with nothing but student loan debt and regretful "what ifs."

I'm trying to get back into art, but now I feel like I'm so far behind everyone who went to art school. I barely created any art at all for 5 years while I was in college, and since graduation I haven't done much other. It's hard to get back to it after stagnating for so long. I'm bitter when I imagine how much I could have grown as an artist if I had gone to art school, and how I could have already launched a career by now doing what I love.

But I acknowledge pay for positions within the international development field is low, and might not provide for a comfortable life. A newer consideration is a career as a city planner, I like to think of it as development but on a smaller scale, I could plan transit systems and revitalize parks and help provide low-income housing to people who need it.

Inversely, avoid pursuing careers that are by nature overtly extroverted, based on the practical boring sense world, apply pressure to highly detailed impersonal thought, and rely on you to bounce from idea to idea, ie, Sales, or any overtly ESTP, profession, as you'll hate it, trust me, I'm living the nightmare. More than any of that, stay away from sense type professions, unless you want to see what type of concentration camps your shadow self is capable of building.

I have a BA in City Planning, but never got an opportunity to make use of it, thinking the same way as Nicol Gregg, hoping to make a difference, and apply my idealism to the built environment, as in, working with people in a municipality. Sadly, after 8 years of destroying the boreal forest with my resumes to employers, and door knocking, and beating my head against a wall after the recession, I've had 2 interviews in the field yet never touched the world of planning, and now I'm so far behind all the other graduates who've since taken planning, found work, become successful, married, had 3 kids, seen their grandchildren grow up to become planners, lived a full life and died, there's now, really no point in pursuing it. However, I would love for your dream to be realized (can't hide my INFJness), because fellow INFJ's find a lot of joy in how it satisfies them on multiple levels, for which I will be forever jealous. I've since gone to a technical college and taken drafting as I had a knack for it during my planning courses and got a job fairly quickly in 3D design. Totally wrong for me, just as much the work as the people who're involved, surrounded by S types all day long, but the interviews are a plenty, the demand is insane, and drafting has managed to cushion my financial woes here in the meantime.

I've had so many odd jobs and the only satisfaction I've had was in doing something I truly believed in that paid the bills, as you can't have one without the other. Give it a think.

Career counseling sounds perfect lawruhn; wish I got into it years ago.

Louis CK, if you haven't heard of him, is a comedian, actor, writer, and INFP, who said in an interview that he wouldn't do his current show, "Louis" unless he had COMPLETE creative control over every aspect of production, and after months of telling the network FX, "I'm not going to do it.", to all the restrictions they placed on him, they finally caved and gave him complete creative control to create the show he really wanted, and to this day, the owners of FX don't see the show until a few days before it airs on TV (which is unprecedented in the industry), as an example of how important it is, to an idealist, to do what you believe in and are passionate about in order for it to be done well (ie, many Emmy's later) or contently crash and burn trying, than be miserable every day at something you don't believe in.

 

[Gul Dukat]

I didn't enjoy graphic design. I stuck with it because I still thought it was my only option, and I thought I could tolerate it as a career even if I'd really rather be an artist of some sort. But the closer I drew to graduation, the more I realized that I just wasn't cut out to be a graphic designer. You can force yourself to do something you don't love, you can even work hard at it—but in the end, if you're not passionate about what you're doing, are you going to be able to compete with those who are? Even if I do manage to find work as a graphic designer (which honestly, I haven't tried very hard because I just don't want to), I won't be a very successful one. Or a great one. And I don't want to do something for a living that I'm only mediocre at.

Sometimes the key to enjoying your work is less about the job itself and more about your attitude.

One of the big differences between this generation and past generations is that in the past, doing a good job at whatever you were doing was reward enough... you could be a plumber who takes pride in their work and life would be fine. But now there's this pressure to make your job all about you and to enjoy it all the time, as if it's all about having fun and not about actually doing work or making sacrifices.

I can't really comment at the moment because I don't know which aspects of the job don't appeal to you, but there's a difference between hating something because it's all wrong for you and hating something because you won't let go of something else and aren't trying.

Unfortunately, people need money to live and if you study something that brings in a good salary, live a modest existence, and invest when you're young-- then you could even retire young and start a new career while living off the dividends of your investments, and then you'll be completely free to do anything you want. Sure you could die tomorrow and everything, but living that way and trying to dodge the unpleasant truths in life is just going to keep you focused on the here and now and in the long term that's not going to make you feel happy or secure.

I guess if you want to take your chances on something where the supply far exceeds the demand then that's your business and there's nothing saying that you'll definitely fail, but if I had children right now I would tell them to save/earn while they're young and then enjoy their freedom when they're older... it just makes more sense that way because with money, the earlier you start saving the more you'll have later. It has been proven that people who do this live overall happier lives with fewer worries. Again-- make those sacrifices now and they will pay off in the future... and it's a lot harder to go from a life of comfort to a Spartan existence than to go from a Spartan existence to a life of comfort. I'm not saying torture yourself doing something you can't do, but find a happy medium that balances what you want to do/are good at with what other people (society) needs you to do... don't compromise your values, but be realistic.

Above all--understand what you're getting yourself into BEFORE you get yourself into it and don't trust anyone else to tell you what you'll enjoy, because they probably don't know better than you do. I was talking to my friend the other day and he said something like 'people put more thought and planning into their vacations than their education'... I think that rings pretty true.

You might want to look into the KOLBE test... it's a little expensive but it can really help you to know what kinds of things would leave you feeling drained and what kinds of things would help you to use your natural energies to the best of your ability.

 

[sassafras]

I'm going to be the guy who ruins it for you and tell you that you really shouldn't set your sights on just one thing and 'do what you love' isn't always going to work out for you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy your work, but if you're into biology then there are all kinds of things that you can do that will pay well and are in demand, and in the end you'll still be able to travel and do the things that you love. And if you can make enough doing something that is in demand then you can always go your own way once you're secure and established and have some experience.

Chances are you're not going to have just one job for the rest of your life no matter what you get into... most people don't just get one job and then that's their life-- they move around all the time and a lot of these industries are connected so you might be able to jump into what you really want to do after you meet the right people. But then, you might end up loving something else and be happy that you went that way and not want to switch.

I would worry about the position you're describing because no matter how dedicated or great you think you are someone else is always going to be more dedicated or as good plus they have connections or someone liked their smile... I've seen totally incompetent people get ahead of the better candidates because they were connected or because they 'fit in' better. If you get into something where there is less competition, this isn't so much of an issue.

So yeah, my advice is be open to similar fields and look for the best opportunities as opposed to focusing on the same thing everyone is focusing on with only a sketchy plan and a dream to get you there. You don't need all the money in the world to be happy but if you can't get a job and end up stuck in something completely unrelated to what you wanted to do with all kinds of debt and broken dreams, I promise you will not be able to enjoy your life.

I agree with this one hundred and ten percent.

I'd also like to add that at the end of the day, we all have to work. Barring marrying rich or winning the lottery, the reality is, most of us are going to be pulling in 40 - 50 hour work weeks one way or another. Some of us are going to get paid well for what we do, and some of us aren't-- even if the effort we put into it is the same. That's just simply the reality. The key question is to ask yourself what kind of lifestyle is it that you want for yourself and look for a career that will allow you to meet your own requirements.

The other thing to consider is the fact that loving your career doesn't at all equate to success. People fall in and out of love with their career all the time. Why? Because sooner or later, they realize that a career takes work and not all of us have the character to step up to the challenges demanded of even the things we love. To be really successful in any kind of field takes a certain kind of character. You need perseverance, confidence, effective self-management, knowledge, skill and the ability to self-motivate. If you don't have those traits, you're probably better off pursuing something that's going to give you better job security and decent pay. The truth is, if you're naturally someone who gets discouraged easily or balks at the first issue of a challenge, you're probably not going to do well in any field where you have to eat what you kill.

Alot of people seem to have this mindset where 'well, if I find a career I love, all those character traits are going to come about naturally and I will do what it takes.' No, that is frankly bullshit. Your character will always override everything that you do (unless, of course, you actively challenge it)

The best career advice I can give is to match your career to your desired lifestyle and a skill set that you either have or can realistically grow into. If you are dead set on pursuing the arts or any other competitive field, in addition to building the experience and education you need for the career, you also better set yourself to developing the traits you need to succeed in that area. Knowledge and natural talent will only get you so far. Character is everything.

 

[devpeople]

Are you motivated by making a lot of money or is a fulfilment in a different way more important?

I felt very claustrophobic and controlled when I had a career and had someone telling me what to do all the time. As a small business owner I can now set my own hours and manage others which is much more rewarding both financially and emotionally. Having said that I did spend a good few years working to be able to have the knowledge that I have to start the business in the first place.

My one piece of advice would be to become an expert at something tangible. There are too many graduates that take a degree with no vocational applications.

 

[Gul Dukat]

So my dissatisfaction is definitely not from lack of trying or a "all fun no work" mentality. It's not from an unwillingness to let go of an unrealistic dream. I went into this thinking that it would be a satisfying compromise. But it wasn't. Graphic design deals a lot with Se details and Te measurements and all kinds of tedious things that are naturally stressful for an INFJ to deal with. And there wasn't as much room for creativity as I'd hoped.

It doesn't sound like you have a very good attitude towards what you were doing if you're calling it tedious... that doesn't mean you're incompetent or have a poor work ethic. Obviously if it's causing you an unbearable amount of stress then you shouldn't risk your health, but before quitting you really need to ask yourself if it's really THAT bad.

I would argue that there are aspects of practically every job that are going to feel tedious, unpleasant or out of synch with your type. I would agree that certain personalities or aptitudes are a better fit for certain positions, but I think that finding a 'perfect' job would be pretty rare. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if you haven't actually had any jobs outside of your schooling, then how do you know if you hate graphic design or if you just didn't like the way they were teaching it in school?

But I would also say that maybe the problem wasn't that you chose the 'money' option but that you weren't aware of all of the options that you could have pursued. I think that this is a pretty large problem nowadays-- it seems that the majority of people out there just latch onto whatever is 'trendy' or 'big' nowadays and ignore the kinds of paths that could pay off and be satisfying for them in the long run.

That's a highly idyllic scenario—very few people will be able to retire young, no matter how hard they work or how wisely they invest. I wouldn't bank on that happening, for fear it would never happen and I'd forfeit my dreams.

The biggest problem people have nowadays is that they're living beyond their means or they get bogged down with stuff that they think they need or the kind of lifestyle that prevents them from saving enough. They think if you have a certain salary then you need a certain sized house, a certain kind of car, a certain collection of electronics, kids who wear nice clothes, etc. They're not thinking about their own situations and they're looking at what other people have and what the media is telling them to want... and it means they're either going to have to work for a very long time to keep up appearances, or they can stop caring about what everyone else is doing and saying, do their own thing, and retire earlier.

Interest rates are too low for a normal savings account to pay off right now and nobody is looking at the long term... it's all about instant gratification and taking out loans to buy more and more things-- some of which could pay off eventually but most of which are just about keeping up appearances. If they were thinking for themselves, they would find that a dual income family with a decent salary and modest spending habits should be able to save 800k by their 40s or so if they start early.

If you're making over 100k between the two of you there should be no problem saving/investing over 50k per year, and you wouldn't even have to make so many sacrifices... this doesn't always happen, but if you get the right job and always pay off your debts, then 50k is more than enough to support 2-- even 3 people for a year, provided you don't splurge. That means you can have 800k in 16 years. If you start working in your early 20s, you can get there by your 40s... staying above inflation the whole time. I'm not saying you're always going to get a 10% return on the 800k, but it isn't realistic to expect at least 50k in dividends most of the time... and that's every year for life. At that point you could survive on an Internet business where you only have to work a few days per week-- and the rest of the time you're doing whatever you want.

AND that's not even including raises, inheritances and dividends from investments-- add in a few safe, stable blue chip investments, and you can probably add AT LEAST another 5% per year on say, 25k per year-- and an extra $1250 over ten years is not an insignificant amount of money.

So yes, you can retire early if you work at it and don't try to compete with your neighbours. I don't even know why more people aren't doing this... I guess because of things like their kids tuition and of course huge Christmases and new cars and trips and such... and the low interest rates are making everyone want to spend spend spend.

 

[Sriracha]

I do not see city planning as something by which one can get an education and expect to have a job. You would almost need a Political Science degree to go along with it. Most of planning is done through elected officials, such as the County Commissioner. Unless you are well known where you live, and can beat the good ol' boy system you're gold. Most people in those positions are in cahoots with builders/developers who pay their campaigning fees and make promises to honor their bids.

My advice is to go where your heart leads and live within your means. If you are pursuing any type of international degree, might I suggest you take various foreign language courses. It's important to hone in on your natural skills and talents, this is what can carry you through life.

 

[paisley1]

It doesn't sound like you have a very good attitude towards what you were doing if you're calling it tedious... that doesn't mean you're incompetent or have a poor work ethic. Obviously if it's causing you an unbearable amount of stress then you shouldn't risk your health, but before quitting you really need to ask yourself if it's really THAT bad.

I would argue that there are aspects of practically every job that are going to feel tedious, unpleasant or out of synch with your type. I would agree that certain personalities or aptitudes are a better fit for certain positions, but I think that finding a 'perfect' job would be pretty rare. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if you haven't actually had any jobs outside of your schooling, then how do you know if you hate graphic design or if you just didn't like the way they were teaching it in school?

But I would also say that maybe the problem wasn't that you chose the 'money' option but that you weren't aware of all of the options that you could have pursued. I think that this is a pretty large problem nowadays-- it seems that the majority of people out there just latch onto whatever is 'trendy' or 'big' nowadays and ignore the kinds of paths that could pay off and be satisfying for them in the long run.




The biggest problem people have nowadays is that they're living beyond their means or they get bogged down with stuff that they think they need or the kind of lifestyle that prevents them from saving enough. They think if you have a certain salary then you need a certain sized house, a certain kind of car, a certain collection of electronics, kids who wear nice clothes, etc. They're not thinking about their own situations and they're looking at what other people have and what the media is telling them to want... and it means they're either going to have to work for a very long time to keep up appearances, or they can stop caring about what everyone else is doing and saying, do their own thing, and retire earlier.

Interest rates are too low for a normal savings account to pay off right now and nobody is looking at the long term... it's all about instant gratification and taking out loans to buy more and more things-- some of which could pay off eventually but most of which are just about keeping up appearances. If they were thinking for themselves, they would find that a dual income family with a decent salary and modest spending habits should be able to save 800k by their 40s or so if they start early.

If you're making over 100k between the two of you there should be no problem saving/investing over 50k per year, and you wouldn't even have to make so many sacrifices... this doesn't always happen, but if you get the right job and always pay off your debts, then 50k is more than enough to support 2-- even 3 people for a year, provided you don't splurge. That means you can have 800k in 16 years. If you start working in your early 20s, you can get there by your 40s... staying above inflation the whole time. I'm not saying you're always going to get a 10% return on the 800k, but it isn't realistic to expect at least 50k in dividends most of the time... and that's every year for life. At that point you could survive on an Internet business where you only have to work a few days per week-- and the rest of the time you're doing whatever you want.

AND that's not even including raises, inheritances and dividends from investments-- add in a few safe, stable blue chip investments, and you can probably add AT LEAST another 5% per year on say, 25k per year-- and an extra $1250 over ten years is not an insignificant amount of money.

So yes, you can retire early if you work at it and don't try to compete with your neighbours. I don't even know why more people aren't doing this... I guess because of things like their kids tuition and of course huge Christmases and new cars and trips and such... and the low interest rates are making everyone want to spend spend spend.

Nicole Gregg has yet to respond which is unfortunate, I'd love to hear what she has to say about all this.

And to Gul Dukat, you clearly do not understand INFJ's at all, do you? We need more out of a career than a job, and require self-actualization in our work. It has to be an extension of our worldview and by our first function, NI, we can't help but call most jobs tedious, as most sense jobs, don't lend themselves to big picture pattern recognition of human systems.

http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_car.html

I would say the large majority of all INFJ's, like myself, would look at all those ISTJ facts and figures with the whole save now and live later approach and go, well I already do that intuitively, I just don't have a job that's sustainable. As an INFJ, working against your ideals in your position is unsustainable and will ultimately end up under continual threat of termination, because your shadow self will come out and you'll stop caring about what you're doing and who you're working with, rendering Gul Dukat's whole point about saving, to be an impossibility from the get go. Back up to the position itself, analyze it's compatibility with your worldview, place it into either a short term (before I kill someone) or long term (unlikely I will kill someone) box, then at that point, we can listen to his Primerica speech, because as an INFJ, in the end, you are going to struggle more with the pleasure of plenty and the regrets of having wasted your life pursuing money doing something you hated which will lead to all kinds of addictions, than you will with the value of pursuing employment that lended itself to your ideals, personal development, and self-actualization. Way easier to give that speech to an S type Gul Dukat, than an INFJ that should be in an inspirational profession by the very rare nature of who they are.

Sriracha, very astute, it's absolutely an ol' boys club, but the life of planning, if you know someone, lends itself to all the strengths of an INFJ's big picture NI and human analysis EF probably unlike any other personality type there is, unlike SALES, like I mentioned earlier, and planning is multi disciplinary in it's academic approach, leaving you a few credits shy of a minor in economics, political studies, and sociology if you wanted to go for it. I completely agree with you, that it's important to hone any natural skills that can become useful in any way later in life, as CAD has come up big for me.

Final thought, the people I've worked with and worked for, have played as much of a role in my job health, dedication and sustainability as the position itself, so you would be wise to take that into consideration. What other types will I be working with in that job?

 

[paisley1]

It doesn't sound like you have a very good attitude towards what you were doing if you're calling it tedious... that doesn't mean you're incompetent or have a poor work ethic. Obviously if it's causing you an unbearable amount of stress then you shouldn't risk your health, but before quitting you really need to ask yourself if it's really THAT bad.

I would argue that there are aspects of practically every job that are going to feel tedious, unpleasant or out of synch with your type. I would agree that certain personalities or aptitudes are a better fit for certain positions, but I think that finding a 'perfect' job would be pretty rare. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if you haven't actually had any jobs outside of your schooling, then how do you know if you hate graphic design or if you just didn't like the way they were teaching it in school?

But I would also say that maybe the problem wasn't that you chose the 'money' option but that you weren't aware of all of the options that you could have pursued. I think that this is a pretty large problem nowadays-- it seems that the majority of people out there just latch onto whatever is 'trendy' or 'big' nowadays and ignore the kinds of paths that could pay off and be satisfying for them in the long run.




The biggest problem people have nowadays is that they're living beyond their means or they get bogged down with stuff that they think they need or the kind of lifestyle that prevents them from saving enough. They think if you have a certain salary then you need a certain sized house, a certain kind of car, a certain collection of electronics, kids who wear nice clothes, etc. They're not thinking about their own situations and they're looking at what other people have and what the media is telling them to want... and it means they're either going to have to work for a very long time to keep up appearances, or they can stop caring about what everyone else is doing and saying, do their own thing, and retire earlier.

Interest rates are too low for a normal savings account to pay off right now and nobody is looking at the long term... it's all about instant gratification and taking out loans to buy more and more things-- some of which could pay off eventually but most of which are just about keeping up appearances. If they were thinking for themselves, they would find that a dual income family with a decent salary and modest spending habits should be able to save 800k by their 40s or so if they start early.

If you're making over 100k between the two of you there should be no problem saving/investing over 50k per year, and you wouldn't even have to make so many sacrifices... this doesn't always happen, but if you get the right job and always pay off your debts, then 50k is more than enough to support 2-- even 3 people for a year, provided you don't splurge. That means you can have 800k in 16 years. If you start working in your early 20s, you can get there by your 40s... staying above inflation the whole time. I'm not saying you're always going to get a 10% return on the 800k, but it isn't realistic to expect at least 50k in dividends most of the time... and that's every year for life. At that point you could survive on an Internet business where you only have to work a few days per week-- and the rest of the time you're doing whatever you want.

AND that's not even including raises, inheritances and dividends from investments-- add in a few safe, stable blue chip investments, and you can probably add AT LEAST another 5% per year on say, 25k per year-- and an extra $1250 over ten years is not an insignificant amount of money.

So yes, you can retire early if you work at it and don't try to compete with your neighbours. I don't even know why more people aren't doing this... I guess because of things like their kids tuition and of course huge Christmases and new cars and trips and such... and the low interest rates are making everyone want to spend spend spend.

Nicole Gregg has yet to respond which is unfortunate, I'd love to hear what she has to say about all this.

And to Gul Dukat, you clearly do not understand INFJ's at all, do you? We need more out of a career than a job, and require self-actualization in our work. It has to be an extension of our worldview and by our first function, NI, we can't help but call most jobs tedious, as most sense jobs, don't lend themselves to big picture pattern recognition of human systems.

http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_car.html

I would say the large majority of all INFJ's, like myself, would look at all those ISTJ facts and figures with the whole save now and live later approach and go, well I already do that intuitively, I just don't have a job that's sustainable. As an INFJ, working against your ideals in your position is unsustainable and will ultimately end up under continual threat of termination, because your shadow self will come out and you'll stop caring about what you're doing and who you're working with, rendering Gul Dukat's whole point about saving, to be an impossibility from the get go. Back up to the position itself, analyze it's compatibility with your worldview, place it into either a short term (before I kill someone) or long term (unlikely I will kill someone) box, then at that point, we can listen to his Primerica speech, because as an INFJ, in the end, you are going to struggle more with the pleasure of plenty and the regrets of having wasted your life pursuing money doing something you hated which will lead to all kinds of addictions, than you will with the value of pursuing employment that lended itself to your ideals, personal development, and self-actualization. Way easier to give that speech to an S type Gul Dukat, than an INFJ that should be in an inspirational profession by the very rare nature of who they are.

Sriracha, very astute, it's absolutely an ol' boys club, but the life of planning, if you know someone, lends itself to all the strengths of an INFJ's big picture NI and human analysis EF probably unlike any other personality type there is, unlike SALES, like I mentioned earlier, and planning is multi disciplinary in it's academic approach, leaving you a few credits shy of a minor in economics, political studies, and sociology if you wanted to go for it. I completely agree with you, that it's important to hone any natural skills that can become useful in any way later in life, as CAD has come up big for me.

Final thought, the people I've worked with and worked for, have played as much of a role in my job health, dedication and sustainability as the position itself, so you would be wise to take that into consideration. What other types will I be working with in that job?

 

[paisley1]

It doesn't sound like you have a very good attitude towards what you were doing if you're calling it tedious... that doesn't mean you're incompetent or have a poor work ethic. Obviously if it's causing you an unbearable amount of stress then you shouldn't risk your health, but before quitting you really need to ask yourself if it's really THAT bad.

I would argue that there are aspects of practically every job that are going to feel tedious, unpleasant or out of synch with your type. I would agree that certain personalities or aptitudes are a better fit for certain positions, but I think that finding a 'perfect' job would be pretty rare. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if you haven't actually had any jobs outside of your schooling, then how do you know if you hate graphic design or if you just didn't like the way they were teaching it in school?

But I would also say that maybe the problem wasn't that you chose the 'money' option but that you weren't aware of all of the options that you could have pursued. I think that this is a pretty large problem nowadays-- it seems that the majority of people out there just latch onto whatever is 'trendy' or 'big' nowadays and ignore the kinds of paths that could pay off and be satisfying for them in the long run.




The biggest problem people have nowadays is that they're living beyond their means or they get bogged down with stuff that they think they need or the kind of lifestyle that prevents them from saving enough. They think if you have a certain salary then you need a certain sized house, a certain kind of car, a certain collection of electronics, kids who wear nice clothes, etc. They're not thinking about their own situations and they're looking at what other people have and what the media is telling them to want... and it means they're either going to have to work for a very long time to keep up appearances, or they can stop caring about what everyone else is doing and saying, do their own thing, and retire earlier.

Interest rates are too low for a normal savings account to pay off right now and nobody is looking at the long term... it's all about instant gratification and taking out loans to buy more and more things-- some of which could pay off eventually but most of which are just about keeping up appearances. If they were thinking for themselves, they would find that a dual income family with a decent salary and modest spending habits should be able to save 800k by their 40s or so if they start early.

If you're making over 100k between the two of you there should be no problem saving/investing over 50k per year, and you wouldn't even have to make so many sacrifices... this doesn't always happen, but if you get the right job and always pay off your debts, then 50k is more than enough to support 2-- even 3 people for a year, provided you don't splurge. That means you can have 800k in 16 years. If you start working in your early 20s, you can get there by your 40s... staying above inflation the whole time. I'm not saying you're always going to get a 10% return on the 800k, but it isn't realistic to expect at least 50k in dividends most of the time... and that's every year for life. At that point you could survive on an Internet business where you only have to work a few days per week-- and the rest of the time you're doing whatever you want.

AND that's not even including raises, inheritances and dividends from investments-- add in a few safe, stable blue chip investments, and you can probably add AT LEAST another 5% per year on say, 25k per year-- and an extra $1250 over ten years is not an insignificant amount of money.

So yes, you can retire early if you work at it and don't try to compete with your neighbours. I don't even know why more people aren't doing this... I guess because of things like their kids tuition and of course huge Christmases and new cars and trips and such... and the low interest rates are making everyone want to spend spend spend.

Nicole Gregg has yet to respond which is unfortunate, I'd love to hear what she has to say about all this.

And to Gul Dukat, you clearly do not understand INFJ's at all, do you? We need more out of a career than a job, and require self-actualization in our work. It has to be an extension of our worldview and by our first function, NI, we can't help but call most jobs tedious, as most sense jobs, don't lend themselves to big picture pattern recognition of human systems.

I would say the large majority of all INFJ's, like myself, would look at all those ISTJ facts and figures with the whole save now and live later approach and go, well I already do that intuitively, I just don't have a job that's sustainable. As an INFJ, working against your ideals in your position is unsustainable and will ultimately end up under continual threat of termination, because your shadow self will come out and you'll stop caring about what you're doing and who you're working with, rendering Gul Dukat's whole point about saving, to be an impossibility from the get go. Back up to the position itself, analyze it's compatibility with your worldview, place it into either a short term (before I kill someone) or long term (unlikely I will kill someone) box, then at that point, we can listen to his Primerica speech, because as an INFJ, in the end, you are going to struggle more with the pleasure of plenty and the regrets of having wasted your life pursuing money doing something you hated which will lead to all kinds of addictions, than you will with the value of pursuing employment that lended itself to your ideals, personal development, and self-actualization. Way easier to give that speech to an S type Gul Dukat, than an INFJ that should be in an inspirational profession by the very rare nature of who they are.

Sriracha, very astute, it's absolutely an ol' boys club, but the life of planning, if you know someone, lends itself to all the strengths of an INFJ's big picture NI and human analysis EF probably unlike any other personality type there is, unlike SALES, like I mentioned earlier, and planning is multi disciplinary in it's academic approach, leaving you a few credits shy of a minor in economics, political studies, and sociology if you wanted to go for it. I completely agree with you, that it's important to hone any natural skills that can become useful in any way later in life, as CAD has come up big for me.

Final thought, the people I've worked with and worked for, have played as much of a role in my job health, dedication and sustainability as the position itself, so you would be wise to take that into consideration. What other types will I be working with in that job?