Importance of Material Wealth

[Faye]

A common them in religion and philosophy is a turn away from material possessions and wealth. At the extremes, you have individuals who completely denounce it and live only on what is given to them (i.e. Buddhist monks who beg) or who live very simply.

If you're reading this, you probably live in an area that places a pretty significant emphasis on attaining material wealth.

My question is this: is material wealth necessary for a good life? Could you live a good life if you had to live how around a billion people in the world live now on the buying power of less than one US dollar? Could you have only basic possessions and still be happy and live well, perhaps eating only basic rice dishes for most of your meals- if you weren't going hungry that day?

Whenever I think about my problems, I think about how most people in the world are severely impoverished, and the world seems to be a not so great place.

 

[Cornerstone]

People are really only in those bad ways because of us, though.

The world where people have to starve is the world we have created. We can't live how we live unless others live in horrific poverty.

I think the phrase 'One cannot serve both God and Mammon (material wealth) for he will serve one and neglect the other'.

It makes sense to me with my understanding of God. To focus on the one thing that absolutely is fleeting for sure is foolhardy. It's the same with seeking power. Even the greatest rulers of human history were nothing but 'momentary rulers of a fraction of a dot'.

 

[the]

I think part of wanting to attain wealth is because it gives the illusion of security. As in "no one will take or mess with my garden (food supply) because it is mine" when really robbers and thefts happen all the time. I don't think people would be so adverse to sharing what came out of that garden if it could be determined that. Most people will have or work on their own garden and the food supply wouldn't run out. So it's the security of knowing that you won't go hungry and that what you are doing is going to benefit you.


just a simplistic view on one part of a bigger picture.

 

[Apone]

Some of the happiest people that I have ever met have lived in developing countries… and a lot of the people there have a completely different attitude towards what they do than we do here-- I met a guy who actually said that his job in an African diamond mine really 'wasn't so bad'. You might say he's ignorant, but for the most part I think he was just good at making the best out of his situation. Sometimes people with nothing are better at taking a difficult situation in stride than people in the west are at taking an extremely fortuitous situation in stride.

Poverty can also foster a sense of community-- there aren't as many distractions or technologies acting as barriers between yourself and the people around you. Your whole life is much more about basic things, as well as your friends… not so much about TV or iPhones or games or fitness, etc… on the other hand, it's probably not so good for your health to spend your days drinking 10 cent plastic bags full of homemade wine out of a shared cup while chanting and singing about god knows what… but I guess if you don't know the difference, then you don't have to worry about it. In some ways, not worrying about things and not being obsessed with cleanliness and healthiness and excellence and achievement, etc… is probably pretty liberating.

If your whole life is going to be spent stressing out about whether or not you're in good enough shape or eating right or reading enough books or if you can get a date or get married or get the job that's right for you, that's not going to make you happy-- I do think that in some ways having too many choices is just as if not more difficult than not having any. You can adjust to something better if you know that it's the best that you can do, but that feeling of wasted potential is always going to make you sour.

So yeah, I definitely don't think that material gain can make you happy, but I don't think it necessarily means that you're unhappy either… but one thing that being wealthy does provide you with is opportunities that other people do not and probably will never have. I don't think that things/trophies are worthwhile-- middle class luxuries are the most pointless of all-- but things like travel and exploring and free time are invaluable. I seriously envy people who are able to take Branson's jet into space… I'd love to be able to go to the moon as well. I'd also love to own a long-range boat and sail around the world… just to know how it feels. Also, a private island would be aces.

 

[moonlightam]

Happy are not the ones who have a lot - its the ones who have enough

 

[Rferraris]

Some of the happiest people that I have ever met have lived in developing countries… and a lot of the people there have a completely different attitude towards what they do than we do here-- I met a guy who actually said that his job in an African diamond mine really 'wasn't so bad'. You might say he's ignorant, but for the most part I think he was just good at making the best out of his situation. Sometimes people with nothing are better at taking a difficult situation in stride than people in the west are at taking an extremely fortuitous situation in stride.

Poverty can also foster a sense of community-- there aren't as many distractions or technologies acting as barriers between yourself and the people around you. Your whole life is much more about basic things, as well as your friends… not so much about TV or iPhones or games or fitness, etc… on the other hand, it's probably not so good for your health to spend your days drinking 10 cent plastic bags full of homemade wine out of a shared cup while chanting and singing about god knows what… but I guess if you don't know the difference, then you don't have to worry about it. In some ways, not worrying about things and not being obsessed with cleanliness and healthiness and excellence and achievement, etc… is probably pretty liberating.

If your whole life is going to be spent stressing out about whether or not you're in good enough shape or eating right or reading enough books or if you can get a date or get married or get the job that's right for you, that's not going to make you happy-- I do think that in some ways having too many choices is just as if not more difficult than not having any. You can adjust to something better if you know that it's the best that you can do, but that feeling of wasted potential is always going to make you sour.

So yeah, I definitely don't think that material gain can make you happy, but I don't think it necessarily means that you're unhappy either… but one thing that being wealthy does provide you with is opportunities that other people do not and probably will never have. I don't think that things/trophies are worthwhile-- middle class luxuries are the most pointless of all-- but things like travel and exploring and free time are invaluable. I seriously envy people who are able to take Branson's jet into space… I'd love to be able to go to the moon as well. I'd also love to own a long-range boat and sail around the world… just to know how it feels. Also, a private island would be aces.

I probably can't say it better than you. But I can reiterate and agree. But if I never had a car, i'd be happy getting around by what means I had available.
If I had a horse, that would be what I got used to. If I never had a horse, then I'd be happy to walk wherever I went.

Funny how we are content until we learn we can have something else.
If you never knew of a horse or car or bicycle, you'd never be disappointed walking.

 

[Cornerstone]

I would like a jacuzzi though...if I was going to be materialistic.

 

[Rferraris]

I would like a jacuzzi though...if I was going to be materialistic.

You'd be happy without one if you didn't know one existed.

 

[Cornerstone]

You'd be happy without one if you didn't know one existed.

Yeah, but there is one at the pool next to my university (they bought a private gym out) and it's awesome.

There are lots of things that I know exist and have little to no desire for (cars are something most people really want) but I would like a jacuzzi. They're so good.

 

[Radiantshadow]

A common them in religion and philosophy is a turn away from material possessions and wealth. At the extremes, you have individuals who completely denounce it and live only on what is given to them (i.e. Buddhist monks who beg) or who live very simply.

If you're reading this, you probably live in an area that places a pretty significant emphasis on attaining material wealth.

My question is this: is material wealth necessary for a good life? Could you live a good life if you had to live how around a billion people in the world live now on the buying power of less than one US dollar? Could you have only basic possessions and still be happy and live well, perhaps eating only basic rice dishes for most of your meals- if you weren't going hungry that day?

Whenever I think about my problems, I think about how most people in the world are severely impoverished, and the world seems to be a not so great place.

Money is psychologically symbolic, a means to an end. I am in the middle of a positive psychology course and, according to the research we covered (approximated here), money is a starting point for happiness and a good life in general. It is beneficial to the extent it supplies basic needs and fulfills personal expectations related to one's identity. Wealth beyond these points - which are relative to geography, personality, and culture - yield diminished returns, favoring social ties and relationships (mentioned in the wiki link). Happiness is a teeter-totter relationship between physiological satisfaction and immaterial fulfillment. Here is a study, alluded to in the wiki link, that glimpses America's materialistic mindset.

So, to answer your questions properly @Dragon: money by itself does not buy happiness.

Personally, I find fascination with wealth a little morbid because it is a hollow idol that spreads many plagues. Well, to be honest, the concept of money to begin with amuses me because all of its value is contrived. I think it's an economical necessity now in our globalized, interconnected world, which saddens me a little.

 

[Honey]

A common them in religion and philosophy is a turn away from material possessions and wealth. At the extremes, you have individuals who completely denounce it and live only on what is given to them (i.e. Buddhist monks who beg) or who live very simply.

I have often thought of this aspect of buddhist monks lifestyle as somewhat irresponsible and parasitic on the people who bother to work hard often in really unplesant jobs.


I think people in developing countries are mainly happy with their situation because in their village/town most people are at the same level of wealth/education/chance for progress and there is just less of a keep up with the Jones' mentality. Status anxiety only occurs when you start wondering if your neighbor/classmates are doing better than you financially etc.

I think material wealth is a great thing. I say this as a person who spent years living in a developing country. When you see a mother watching her child die before her very eyes with an illness that is treatable with the right amount of money then you can come to see that wealth can in fact free you from a whole lot of general life misery.

Wealth does not prevent a person from seeking the highest ideal in themselves or being a happy, decent and kind person, indeed in some ways it might make it easier. I think religion (no doubt backed by the selfish, self protecting rich) has done a great disservice to most societies by somehow trying to make wealth seem like some kind of bad thing and not worth striving for.

I sometimes think of all the problems of others around me that I could solve if I was wealthy. I often think of the experiences that I could have if I was wealthy. Wealth would free me from a whole lot of life's crap I am sure. I will not become wealth in this lifetime based on what I have chosen to do with me life and I think that as long as the basics are available then one can indeed be happy and contented without being wealthy but I honestly think that wealth is a wonderful thing to have especially because of the potential for doing much good that it offers.

 

[Apone]

^I sort of agree with you, Honey... but I think that medical aid should be available to everyone, mostly because it's possible to do it and there's no point in letting someone deteriorate from a curable condition when they could be leading a healthy, productive existence.

I am definitely not rich but I have relatives who are wealthy and they are certainly not scoundrels and predators in any sense of the word-- on the other hand, I definitely don't think they're interested in giving their money away, and certainly do feel as though they deserve to have the higher standard of living that they enjoy... I think it's because they're wealthy, but not ridiculously wealthy.

You need to hit a certain level of wealth before you can take it upon yourself to be responsible for the nation's/world's problems-- unless you were raised under a strict social code that binds you to the people around you, like in Japanese society. The Japanese frequently donate large amounts of money to worthwhile causes-- in fact, wealthy Japanese accounted for some of the biggest donations to help with Hurricane Katrina... it's because they were raised under social pressures that stress creating a warm, upstanding public image as one of the most important things in life.

I'm rambling, but my relatives also know a guy who actually is mega-wealthy (I think he was a big-time pro golfer, I can't remember his name as I don't follow golf), and he decided to use his wealth to move to a tax haven and build a huge mansion with a bar in every single room in the house. Seriously-- the bedroom, the bathrooms, the kitchen... fully equipped and stocked. And it wasn't even his only house... he only lived there some of the time. I honestly can't imagine what sort of person would do something like that-- probably some kind of new money, dumb high school jock who never had to grow up because he ended up getting everything that he ever wanted just by playing a game. I can imagine for some people it would probably be fun to do it but I can't imagine that making him happy... it's amazing that he didn't feel like maybe some of that money would be better spent on helping other people instead of building an alcoholic dream house.

On the other hand, having been to third world countries and experienced life as a relatively wealthy person, I know that it is all too easy to slip into a mindset where you feel like you deserve more than everyone around you, and maybe, if you feel like it, you can leave them a large tip or perhaps make some poor fisherman's day by slipping him $15 to feed his family. You feel like a big shot, a superstar who can buy and sell anything or anyone... and it feels pretty good. It feels best to give and help out, but still, there are all kinds of people I've seen there treating other people like inferiors and complaining that things aren't up to their standards and refusing to pay a ridiculously tiny amount of money for something or trying to bring the sellers down to an absurdly low price because they know they're desperate. These people want nothing more than to go home and tell everyone what a great deal they got-- the actual purchase isn't even the point! These are middle class Americans/Brits/etc.. the kind of people that probably everyone on this site already knows.

Seriously, go travelling in any third world country and if you sign up for climbing or hiking or something, the first question anyone will ask you is how much you paid-- getting the best deal is always the most important part of your experience.

On the other hand, if you go to the really poor areas and start giving people money you will just be swarmed to the point of being completely overwhelmed, and news will spread of your generosity and then you'll have an endless line of poor people, con artists, thieves, etc following you around the city, trying to bleed you of cash. If you are nice, you will be hounded and pursued and harrassed-- I was once told that offering to pay about $5 for a beach towel could get me killed, I think because they had no concept of how much money I had-- I was just 'rich', which means I deserve to be ripped off.

I spent a month in Nepal and by the end of it I honestly couldn't take hearing any more about people's financial and social nightmares, or why I should buy their fruit or their postcards, or why they needed money for this or that... there were far too many of them and it was absolutely impossible to deal with them all. I started to actually resent them, even if I didn't blame them... because it's annoying, especially when you're not such an outgoing person and you really do need to recharge, or you just want to take a walk in the park or something.

Not that people in America are like that per se, but in some ways I can see how the 'responsibilities' that come with being rich can make people unhappy or angry or frustrated or confused.

It seems like the solution to poverty is simple, but it's really not... you could give away everything you own and never fix it... the con artists would swoop in and take it first, or people would think that you have an endless supply and get angry at you when you run out, or you could give some to one person and then not have enough for the others...

I do hate being a tourist in some of these countries because by the end of it, the guilt of not being able to change anything can drive you insane.

Anyways, that went way off topic.

/rant.

 

[this is only temporary]

A common them in religion and philosophy is a turn away from material possessions and wealth. At the extremes, you have individuals who completely denounce it and live only on what is given to them (i.e. Buddhist monks who beg) or who live very simply.

If you're reading this, you probably live in an area that places a pretty significant emphasis on attaining material wealth.

My question is this: is material wealth necessary for a good life? .

LOL, define material wealth! Some people whine if they have to drive a POS car... seriously.

The money grubbing doctor I mentioned in an earlier post
1. was a diagnosed Narcissist
2. came from an ultra-traditional, extremely authoritarian family, and from what I understand, he needed to prove to his father he had a large penis, or something like that (don't ask me why his father would care) and he did it through "beating" or "one-upping" everyone he possibly could.

For him, he would have been miserable if he could not do something to feel superior to others. I do not fully understand this.

For most people, having their material needs met is crucial for happiness. I don't want to starve to death, thank you. I have lived a fairly simple life and at one point in my childhood lived in a house without inside plumbing, and I was pretty happy at that time. At any rate, the lack of inside plumbing did not bother me. (It was installed fairly quickly, as it definitely bothered my parents! )

Could you live a good life if you had to live how around a billion people in the world live now on the buying power of less than one US dollar? Could you have only basic possessions and still be happy and live well, perhaps eating only basic rice dishes for most of your meals- if you weren't going hungry that day?.

No. I would not want to be in a position where I and those who depend on me go hungry, ever, no matter what, and will go to great lengths to avoid this.

I do not particularly want or care about status symbols. I quite enjoy luxury, when I can get it!

Whenever I think about my problems, I think about how most people in the world are severely impoverished, and the world seems to be a not so great place.

Yes, true, but from what I understand, things have improved over the course of the last 50-100 years. I saw an interesting video about this given by a public health professor. Health and wealth are very closely connected, they both improve quality of life for most people in the world.

When measured in terms of infant mortality and per capita income in many parts of the world, health and wealth have actually improved over the past 50-100 years. So, yes, there is more work to be done, but I actually think some things are going right.
http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_at_state.html

 

[Solongo]

I experienced both ends. I grew up in poverty in Mongolia from birth to age 12 and my life was markedly different in those years than the years i lived in the US afterwards. Both lifestyles bring in some form of stress, anxiety and suffering. With poverty you have the constant feeling of needing basic necessities like food, clothes and shelter and trying to live on sustenance. You start to understand on a deep level that poverty will repress you down and your chances of living a better lifestyle may never come; so it comes with constant feelings of needing; feeling hungry and bleak look into the future. Sometimes poverty also builds extreme need for improvement and ambition and striving as well as countless victims that claim they 'can't help themselves".

Once your overall material lifestyle improves; lets say living in the US you are on the complete opposite end of abundance and waste. Not only you have the basic necessities; you have choices upon choices to live better. Living in a material world tests your ability to make good decisions for yourself. This forces you to realize what it is you value and what it is you don't. In order to realize this you have to know how wealth feels for you and where you draw the line. Some people are constantly hungry for money and wealth and never feel satiated while others find a way to live on a decent salary and find contentment. Living in a world with abundance also tests your idea of competition and self worth. American society correlates your ability to make money and accumulate wealth with your self worth and esteem. There is constant pressure to live according to others idea of wealth and i think one has to dissect and analyze their own makeup before succumbing to other's vision.