If there is one true religion... | Page 8 | INFJ Forum

If there is one true religion...

barbad0s said:
I don’t believe that people are inherently religious, except that people tend to be bitches who want to please others and get off of being told what to do and following it disingenuously to the masochistic/sadistic obvious detriment of themselves and others.

I can accept some level of spirituality, however.
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I will disagree but with a caveat.

Religion to me is just another word for tribe. Tribes follow different theologies of course but I also call all theologis, philosophies thinking systems and can thus class them al as ideologies.

Can you agree with that?

If so, your definitions are as loose as mine, and you might be able to agree when I say that our instincts, given that they provide a path to follow, that is based on our tribal instincts, says that we are religious by nature.

These links may help you see as I see.



Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Christian said:
Tribes follow different theologies of course but I also call all theologis, philosophies thinking systems and can thus class them al as ideologies.
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Could you clarify?
 
Ren said:
It's interesting that you seem quite rational/skeptical yet still identify as a Christian, albeit Gnostic. Would you mind telling us about your own interpretive approach to holy books? And what makes you a believer?
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I am not the usual believer. That fact is apparent from the inquisitions that were used to try to write us right out of history.

We were known as the only good Christians because like some Jewish sects like Jesus' we put man above god while Christians, after they decided to read myths literally and foolishly, put their rather vile god over man.

Jesus asks in scriptures, have ye forgotten that ye are gods? most have but not Gnostic Christians.

To your question.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.


Regards
DL
 
Ren said:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Could you clarify?
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To my way of thinking, be you following a theology and named god, a philosophy of a named philosopher, a religion that puts man above god and focuses on knowledge and wisdom, like mine, a political tribe like Democrats and Republican, statism or any other thinking system, --- all groups named are following an ideology, --- and can thus be seem and described as a religion.

Labels are going crazy and melding atheism with agnostic and believer etc. My consolidating thinking systems into ideology KIS.

Regards
DL
 
Ren said:
Ethical speculation yes, but religious speculation not really.

I'm not very well-versed in theology.
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A shame. I like to know why Christianity thought of us as enemies enough to use inquisitions on us.

I now know my enemy and the enemy of moral people.

Regards
DL
 
Aneirin said:
trying to find truth in things religious is a fools journey . .faith and truth are not the same thing. .belief is not truth . . it is belief.
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You are off the mark on this buddy.

For instance, it can be scientifically proven that we are all born sinners as the bible says. Nature says the same but uses the word do evil instead.

The point is that there is no conflict between Christianity and nature on this. Christianity has just forgotten how to do decent apologetics because they have forgotten how to do what Gnostic Christians do and not read it literally.

There is nothing worse than trying to read a myth with a message literally.

Regards
DL
 
Yusuf said:
Because it's test,
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An all knowing god would already know all the results of all tests.

If we are created perfect, as a perfect god would do, he would not waste his time testing.

Only an insecure creator tests his perfect works.

Muslims are so like Christians. No faith and too sheeple to think for themselves.

We are to test Allah, not Allah testing us.

Gods are to serve us. Not us serve that which has no needs.

You are supposed to respect Jesus. Have you forgotten that he said he came to serve and not be served?

What in hell do you think you have that Allah could possibly want?

Pardon my anger buddy, but I hate to see a lack of faith in believers.

Regards
DL
 
Reason said:
There's probably a little truth in every religion but some can be inherently more truthier than others
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As an esoteric ecumenist, I agree.

These days, there is mostly just a lack or morality and ethics.

At least in the mainstream homophobic and misogynous religions.

Regards
DL
 
Sandie33 said:
No.
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I agree if you mean a supernatural heaven.

I disagree if you can see the way this Gnostic Christian sees things.

Let me give a brain teaser.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

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The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
 
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Gnostic Christian said:
Let me give a brain teaser.
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Why?
With all due respect and no offense meant, after reading through replies in the thread it rings of conversion to me.

The forum is a place for sharing and often viewpoints collide, we agree to disagree and hopefully move on to more shared conversation. In this way we maintain the avenue of mutual respect.

These are my thoughts toward the presented information.

Gnostic Christian said:
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
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Having studied gnosticism quite extensively the past few years I've concluded that I agree with the idea that gnosticism equates knowledge, with agnoticism meaning unknowing. Having said that, the Kingdom of god is not inside me because I do not adhere to the dogmatisms of earthly religions. Now please don't misunderstand that statement. I have not said I do not believe in God. For me, God is equivilant to the Source of all beings, all things, as well as my faith.
I do not look to the sky and plead for a supreme being to wave a magic wand and all my troubles vanish here in the physical. In the same token, I do not blame an authoritative God that if I do not adhere to the rules handed down to me from the minds of men a stiff hand will knock me down in punishment. (I've tested this theory more than once, :p)

Gnostic Christian said:
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.
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There are a fishnet of holes in this quote for me. Are we speaking of Spiritual poverty or material poverty?
Again, what are we weighing the picture of perfection against?

How is it you see the world? And, why do you argue against a contrasting view? From what I recall from my Baptist upbringing, that is not a very Christian way to be.

Gnostic Christian said:
Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?
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I've never viewed my world as 'ugly'. Again, what are we weighing perfection to? Is there such a thing?
The ancestrial history of the world is quite exciting when looked at its evolution over time through the eyes of historians. Yet again, we only have the filters of our predecessors to go by and their individual and collective agreement. The same could be said with the human race. From an external view I believe the human race to be advanced in things like technology, housing, industry, and the like. However, from an internal view I feel the human race is regressing in an alarming rate, especially in the vectors concerning religion and spirituality.

I'm confused as to which it is you're referring to when you say world?
Are you referencing the earthly experiences or the world I create in my personal life?

Gnostic Christian said:
That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.
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I disagree and redirect to my original statement of no to whether the Laws of heaven equate those here on earth. One would have to agree in the fact that these two spaces are both tangible, which they are not.
In other words, we cannot compare an apple to an onion without the transformation of one or the other to create a common denominator. Yes?
 
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Gnostic Christian said:
You are off the mark on this buddy.

For instance, it can be scientifically proven that we are all born sinners as the bible says. Nature says the same but uses the word do evil instead.

The point is that there is no conflict between Christianity and nature on this. Christianity has just forgotten how to do decent apologetics because they have forgotten how to do what Gnostic Christians do and not read it literally.

There is nothing worse than trying to read a myth with a message literally.

Regards
DL
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sigh. . here we go again. I'm tapping out of this one. . there is no point in debating religion with the religious. for they "know the truth". . we are all but blind sheep that have gone astray. .fortunately for all us sinners, they are here to lead us to "salvation". . whatever that is. .it's like an acquaintance of mine that believe that a vaccine for corona virus is accepting the mark of the beast. ..please people. .have you faith, believe whatever gets you through the day. . but dont, I repeat . . don't tell me my beliefs or faith is wrong because you think something else. . you have no right or place and you make you faith seem more like simply rhetoric that keeps you warm on a cold night. . just stop it
 
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Aneirin said:
sigh. . here we go again. I'm tapping out of this one. . there is no point in debating religion with the religious. for they "know the truth". . we are all but blind sheep that have gone astray. .fortunately for all us sinners, they are here to lead us to "salvation". . whatever that is. .it's like an acquaintance of mine that believe that a vaccine for corona virus is accepting the mark of the beast. ..please people. .have you faith, believe whatever gets you through the day. . but dont, I repeat . . don't tell me my beliefs or faith is wrong because you think something else. . you have no right or place and you make you faith seem more like simply rhetoric that keeps you warm on a cold night. . just stop it
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Amen.
 
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