If there is one true religion... | Page 2 | INFJ Forum

If there is one true religion...

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Vendrah, Feb 19, 2020.

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  1. Lady Jolanda

    Lady Jolanda Corrupt AF.
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    I can. The universe doesn't have any corners.

    You're welcome. :smirk:
     
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  2. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    How do you know since we haven't reached them yet with our technology ?
     
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  3. Wyote

    Wyote ○●○
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  4. Ren

    Ren Pin's android

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    Argument from ignorance = logical fallacy my friend
     
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  5. OP
    Vendrah

    Vendrah Regular Poster

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    There are lots of people that doesnt know what obbeying Allah is, because as I said it it isnt actually universal at all, except that perhaps thats means disobeying a religionary institution behind it.

    If the truth is obviously on the horizon, then why the messenger, the Quran, the Bible or the books?
    Each book were supposed to match it times, yet many of these books say the other book is, like, "illegal", or even a lie, and they are in contradiction with each other, except when they belong from the same religion on the beggining.

    If the truth is visible and in front of our eyes, then there is no need for spreading the whole religion in the first place.

    Which still doesnt answer why this Manual was given to a specific person or a very few specific persons in a specific enviroment or very few specific enviroments.

    The pattern is always the same: Some "illuminated" guy, and only him, or only a few "illuminated" guys, and only them, receveis a very important message from God, and this message needs to spread to the whole world and the whole world should listen. This is not only your religion, there is plenty of them with a story with this pattern. The high questionable part here is, if this is a very important message, then why God, in all his virtues and excellences, didnt found a way to send it to everybody in any language?

    You dont need to answer these questions anyway.

    The real thing as I perceive is that some human beings, or better, adults, are averse to doubt and want to rely on the safety that they know everything and have every answer. You answer to my doubts in a way, the Christian in another way, the xxx in another way, and each one are inconsistent with each other and, sometimes, one calls another a liar.

    EDIT: Sorry if I was rude.
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    First of all i do really appricate the fact that you are questioning things and wondering what's right to follow and in what conditions unlike many others, and
    No you are not being rude, you are only presenting your doubts about religons which is very healthy thing to do.

    To answer your question why only some few individuals are given the advantage of religon over the rest which he can easily give ?
    There are many points to be looked at before being able to accept the answer the way it is so lend me your attention for sec, and if you have any doubts about life and religons don't hesitate to ask, hopefully this will not cause any problems because I'm only speaking in my religon's pov;

    To start, i think what's right to do is that all those religons atleast shall agree that there is atleast one book which is 100% pure and should be followed,
    Then the Christian will come up with the bible and say this is the truth,
    The Muslim will come up with the quran and say this is the truth,
    The Hindu will come up with the Vedas and say this is the truth,

    At this point it's important to do what we call a Comparative religon study to find out atleast what's common between all these religons, when the study is done we came to find out that almost all books point out to the worship of One god which has no images and to believe in the last messenger which is prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
    It seems like I am speaking big words so let's watch this:



    Note : I have other vedio where he quotes from other scriptures the same way he is quoting from the bible


    So then when the truth is proven why it's not yet in the hands of everyone ?


    Human beings are special creatures, they were given this gift of mind and thought,
    They were given rationality next to their being, so it's your duty to think, comprehend and question what kind of beliefs the society implies on you, are they saying the truth ? Do they have an evidence for what they are asking you to believe ? If god has given his words to some specific people that doesn't mean he is incapable of giving it to the rest as well, i mean afterall isn't he who made the whole universe(As proven)?
    So when god gives his illuminated massages to those illuminated people he doesn't ask them to keep it in their shelves simply but to spread it more and more until all people become able to see the path clear to them.
    It's a known saying: (when you see most people on your side, know that you are in the wrong side) Am sure i could have said this better, anyway, the point is that for every person who tries to adjust or change something in the society for the better, there will always be enemies who will try to fight it in the most desperate of ways, that's why the Media and whoever is behind try to ruin and twist our image to the point islam itself is defined as terrosim for most people who doesn't know about it.

    -Every muslim has an obligation to transfer this message of Islam to the people who doesn't know about it, if some muslims did it then it won't be obligatory for the others to do it as well,
    Just like in the times of Mohammed he used to do what's called Jihad, jihad means to struggle for the Faith, and part of jihad is to spread the word of Islam to other territories, out of 27 times the muslims went to other lands or countries to do so, only 9 times did a fighting took place, a fight where only soliders who resisted were fighted back without causing harm to woman, elders or children. In the other 18 times the message was accepted and welcomed.

    -when we transfer the message to the person, just like iam doing now, the person will not be able to deny it on the day of judgment : (24:24) {On a Day when their tongues, their hands and their feet will bear witness against them as to what they used to do.}
    So if the message of islam did not reach a person while he is living, Allah is fair to them as well and will only test them in the day of judgment in away he finds suitable, in other words you who has internet and can access to almost every diffrent kind of materials and the guy in the Amazon are two diffrent cases.

    This hopefully answers the universality part.


    On the other side of your question, all the religons could have been accepted as long as they are leading to the truth, but for rational people like you and me we need a prove to believe the truth, so its definitely your choice to search and look for the most rational religon which answers your logical doubts. Once your doubts are answered, you can no longer think let away belief that there is a better religon than Islam.
     
  7. Ren

    Ren Pin's android

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    There are many Hindu deities.

    You haven't really provided an proof that Islam is a more rational religion than Christianity. What makes you think that?
     
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  8. SlowUpTake

    SlowUpTake Community Member

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    I am certainly not impressed by any religion that relies on logic to assert its worth. Nor am I enticed by a reward after I die. Its got to have transcendental meaning right here, right now.
     
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  9. Ren

    Ren Pin's android

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    For a religion to have transcendental meaning, does it not need to be at least logically sound in its foundations?

    Just an open question.
     
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  10. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    I did provide a proof for the Andreah in the previous page, it was a clip, but i have found a better one yesterday so here it is

     
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  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    Islam doesn't relay on logic to prove itself, it doesn't rely on how many people follow it, it doesn't rely on what book or what prophet has called for it, it on relies on the truth, and for something to be true and known it shall have atleast have a logical base( Reason,claim and proof) to convince someone it's the right religon, afterwards, the person can either accept or choose to deny the truth, nothing's compulsory, if you choosed to follow it then you will feel the tranquility possessing your soul, if not then you better have something better for yourse
    Islam surely doesn't relay on logic only to prove its worth, it doesn't relay on how many people believe in it, it doesn't relay on what prophet called for it as well, islam only relies on the truth, and for something to be known there has to be a (claim, reason and evidence), if person chooses to spot some light on it then it won't take much time to accept it while being fully convinced, and the moment you become convinced you can either then accept it or deny it, if you choose to accept it then you will feel trenquality possessing your soul, if not then you better have something else more logical and convincing or else it's your life.
     
  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    Sorry i wrote this twice
     
  13. OP
    Vendrah

    Vendrah Regular Poster

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    Im sorry, but what you post doenst really solve most issues I point and are also inconsistent.

    There is still a quote in the Bible directly instructing Christians to avoid Islam because it is directly stated that the name of the God is not Allah.

    The "prophet solution" is still a reasonable poor solution when compared to my "everybody can dream the same dream" or the idea of putting the truth inside our intuition instead of a book. We all are not supposed to be extra gifted to the point of figuring and finding out all of the possible books and arriving at a straight answer which one is the truth we are supposed to follow, because most of them do statement like "I [Bible, Quran, etc..] am the ultimate truth".

    The pattern of a few illuminated guys that must be listened and followed because only them have the truth and others not, is still there. The pattern of threating my next life if I dont listen to you is still there as well (thats the classic "listen me or go to hell"). And by you, Im not really meaning you, Im meaning the religion itself.

    Stating that it is universal and then mentioning that the follower has a duty to spread the religion is inconsistent. Stating that the truth is visible in the horizon, as if it is obvious, and then needing a really big book to explain it is inconsistent as well.

    Im starting to feel like Im INTJ in this occasion...lol. And I dont really think that muslims are all terrorists.
     
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  14. Siham S

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    "Can there be doubt about Allah, Creator of the heavens and earth? He invites you that He may forgive you of your sins, and He delays your death for a specified term.

    Surah 14:10 Nobel Quran
     
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  15. Ren

    Ren Pin's android

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    Thanks for sharing, I'll check the video later and share my comments, if any.
     
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  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    To be honest i may not have the accurate respond to those two questions more than what it is, and as i meant, it requires to keep the eyes, mind and most importantly the heart open to the truth.
    Universality and unity weather they seem clear or not are not the only way to know what is right. If i can't seem to convince you that 1+1=2 then i will try with 3-1=2

    So far the human went through different three ages regarding development, at the past it was the Age of Miracles and the holyquran was the miracle of miracles, then came the Age of literature, that when muslim and non-muslim scholars both agreed that the Quran is the richest book according to Arabic literature, then finally we are now witnessing the age of science and technology and the quran is as well consistent with it. If we put other holy scriptures under the test of time, all of them except the holyQuran are going to fail.
    Earlier you mentioned how religons claim they are the path and demand you to read their long and big books yourself without providing a summery,
    At this time, it doesn't really require you to read the book to find out which religon is right or wrong, for some people one Verse may be enough for another two thousand may not be enough, so to figure out which is which you can just watch the debates that happen among scholars from diffrent religons and see the approaches they take to approve or disapprove each other, and if there is one true religion, it should defintely has something to prove.

    As an example there was this debate which you can find in YouTube between Dr.William Campbell which i think is popular figure in Christian world and Dr.Zakir naik which is one of the most popular figures in Islamic world as well, the title of the lecture is "The Quran and The Holybible in the light of history and science" , each gives his honest opinions and ways of convincing to the truth, it doesn't require you to know the subjects they are talking about in details but their replies for each other's religon doubts are enough.


    Getting back to the topic, each person surely does have their unique way of pointing out to their purpose in life, religon or what they belief in, some people may agree on something while some other choose to reject it, and at the end it's mostly those with most percentages that people choose to attribute the origin of all truth to(not always), in the light of all of this, it doesn't matter whether all people agree on it or no, all people can be wrong too as well, the same way they were when they said the earth was flat couple of years ago, to some, religon may sound bigger than to use such example for describing its fallacy, but at end it remains the truth that some religons will turn out to be wrong while another will turn to be true, in other words: my regret when i find out my religon is wrong won't be less than your regret when you find out it was true.

    The great question is: what have we prepared for our death? The day when neither our wealth nor our families will be there to lighten our grave. Are you willing to risk the afterlife with what you know or what you think you know?
    Have we really given the effort to figure out what was right to do? Or we choosed to close our eyes from all the signs god gave to us ?
    The classic follow me or die shall be convincing afterall.


    And that's almost all i got say, if all of this couldn't convince you yet then as last try i will ask you to pickup your earphones and choose any random minute of the following recitations of the most popular hollybooks, then you can yourself tell me if any of them made you feel anything new or special:

    1- The vedas


    2- The bible


    3- The quran
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    You're welcome, take your time please.
     
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  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    Indeed
     
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  19. Aneirin

    Aneirin AKA, David
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    religion, faith spirituality are all different things. and none of it will be found in logic. it is not logical to believe in something. God, Allah, Yaweh, Buddha, the Goddess, Earth Mother. . all the same thing, seen through the eyes of different cultures and peoples. all the holy books in the world. . are just that, books. Books written by people, decided by committee. God is not an author. what we seek is found on the mountain top. there are many paths to that peak, and all are equally valid and equally true. None is better or more true than any other, that is man's arrogance.
    so walk your own path, or walk several, the destination is the same. . or dont walk at all, the mountain is still there whether you believe it or not
     
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  20. Yusuf

    Yusuf Regular Poster

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    Indeed god is great and indeed we all are meant for same destination wheather we accept it or not, indeed god surpasses logic and science, indeed god deserve to be prayed for, indeed whoever defies God's rules deserves the hell, indeed filling books with human words then attributing it to god is a major sinning, indeed god is merciful, indeed whoever follows the commandments of the true god deserve heaven.
     
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