Idea of Peace, No peace at all | INFJ Forum

Idea of Peace, No peace at all

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Naxx, Oct 27, 2009.

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  1. Naxx

    Naxx Permanent Fixture

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    One problem I always have with peace idealists is that they're normally inconsiderate to anything that isn't peaceful.

    That aggression towards anything that does not represent peace is but another form of violence (idealogical) that will indeed spark more conflict. I do not believe the general idea of peace itself is real peace.

    Peace keepers aim to destroy/smother ideas of violence and what they consider ignorance through their own teachings. Either way the opposite idea will lose power as the opposing idea gains strength, it's all a tug of war of dominance and finger pointing of who is more right and who is more wrong.

    For peace to be absolute you would have to look all directions, favor all but favor none. Be all things and also be nothing at the same time. Since so far as we know matter and energy does not disappear, this seems unlikely at our current stage of thought.

    It find it funny that the idea of either absolute chaos or absolute order are both destructive and indeed more or less unnatural. Absolute violence or Absolute peace seems to also be both destructive and indeed unnatural as well.

    I do agree less violence usually means less suffering for living things in general, however peace and non-violence does not escape the power struggle of ideas. Therefore general peace is probably no solution at all, instead it is but one of many points of views.


    Another point I'd like to make is the arrogance of human thought.

    What makes a person think that they themselves or anyone else is more important then say a pebble in the river?

    What makes a person think that they themselves or think living beings are more important than a planet without life (collections of pebbles)?

    What makes a person think they themselves or anything living is better than entire galaxies without life?

    The idea of peace plays on the belief that the living is of more value than the non-living.

    But it is non-life that sparks life itself and once we die we become non-life. From non-life we become life.


    I think the real question is, can we transcend both aspects of life & death as well as thoughts itself and go beyond.
     
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    #1 Naxx, Oct 27, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
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  2. NeverAmI

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    This makes no sense to me.

    Have you ever watched an innocent person be slaughtered?
     
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  3. Poetic Justice

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    How you treat people is more important than how you treat rocks.

    If you shot a rock in the head it wouldn't care. A person would.
     
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  4. Entyqua

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    ...and the flood gates open...I cant believe this is coming from and INFJ...My INTJ/P husband and I have this fight all the time...I know there can be no order with out chaos, good with out evil...rich without poor...

    its pandoras box

    its a impasse

    its a paradox
     
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  5. Entyqua

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    bwaaaahahahahah!!
    I had to laugh sighing your avatar! HA!!
     
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  6. NeverAmI

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    It is apathy and rationalization in my view.
     
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    Naxx

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    Have you ever watched an innocent animal being slaughtered? Perhaps an Orca playing with the life of a baby seal for pure amusement?

    What do you think about these two events, are they really so different?

    Is the human life worth more than animal life? Is life itself worth more than non-life?

    Or it is all a spiral of existence and events in the past, present, future and unknown?
     
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  8. OP
    Naxx

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    I would let a person die in order to save an entire galaxy of non-life.
     
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  9. Poetic Justice

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    If the galaxy had no chance of life ever existing on it I would have homer shoot you before you could
     
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  10. Entyqua

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    Ultimately your saying...human life matters not?
     
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  11. OP
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    What makes your view better than my view? What makes my view better than your view?

    Am I to blame the Orca for killing a baby seal out of entertainment? Am I to blame the universe for allowing the thought of violence?

    Do I have the right and am I so enlightened to judge things beings for what they are?
     
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  12. OP
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    No that is not what I am saying, I am saying that everything matters.

    So when someone claims something is more or less important than something else they're saying something matter more universally.

    I do not think this is so.

    I think it's really all a matter of preference and this idea of a person's idea being absolutely right is but symbolism for disrespect for all things in existence.


    It's the realization that everything (ideals) you've ever known to be true is indeed just a preference. It is not universal law and you do not really have the authority to judge everything in existence and thought of in existence.
     
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    #12 Naxx, Oct 27, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  13. Poetic Justice

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    Lets say you are waking through the park and you see a 10 year old boy drowning in the lake. you could save him but to get to the lake you have to walk across some pretty flowers which would be crushed under you feet. what would you do
     
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  14. Entyqua

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    I have not said something is more important than anything...I am agreeing with you...there can be no chaos with out order...the death of a whale should be as significant as the death of a human...and to me it is...It is the slow death of earth, Gaia, mother nature, whatever you want to call it...
     
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  15. Lucifer

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    I agree with what you said earlier. But I don't really understand what is going on in this paragraph. Are you trying to say that absolute violence and absolute peace can't exist because it would violate the principle of duality? In other words that creation and destruction, peace and violence, pain and joy, and every other concept are all dependent on one another so taking away one would mean you would have to eliminate the other?

    I think that the yin yang is the perfect symbol for existence. Are purpose in life is trying to find which side we belong on while recognizing and respecting the other side. I will always be a pacifist and fight for peaceful policies in general, but I am not unrealistic I see the utility in violence. The yin yang beautifully symbolizes the idea that for one concept there an opposite. And the no set of opposites are mutually exclusive

    I wanna get a yin yang tattoo for this reason

    This tug of war is inevitable and will probably always exist. It ensures that absolute peace and absolute violence to not happen, and thus it ensures the existence of either concept. Because as I said these things are not mutually exclusive.

    I don't really get that part. I think the common view is that peace is the solution to violence. It is therefor a solution to a problem. Do you disagree? Was that the solution you were thinking of?
     
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    #15 Lucifer, Oct 27, 2009
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    Naxx

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    The belief that peace may give peace to all. The belief that peace is positive for all. The belief that peace is the only way to enlightenment.

    I believe the thought of something being absolute right and/or of more value than others things may help prevent enlightenment/truth.
     
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    #16 Naxx, Oct 27, 2009
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  17. Entyqua

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    we may all strive to be "enlightened" we may all strive for peace, but there can be no absolute peace...There cannot be utopia...

    There is no life with out death
    there is no peace with out war
    there is no good with out evil
    there is no order with out chaos

    It cannot exist any other way...Each of us has an equally powerful counterpoint in the world....For every good deed, there is a bad one...it is the natural order...
     
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  18. OP
    Naxx

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    Indeed, that is all I wish to state and you worded it better than I.
     
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  19. Entyqua

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    ok..As idealists, we have a hard time understanding this, while I know its true...it still hurts a part of me when something like war, or famine, or poverty hits...I want to change it...but well refer to aforementioned post...
     
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  20. OP
    Naxx

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    As an idealist myself I wish the world would move past all of this and see the universe for what it is. See everything for what it is. To embrace truth to embrace not only themselves but everyone and everything.
     
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