I want to learn about Wicca | INFJ Forum

I want to learn about Wicca

RecklessDreamer

RecklessDreamer

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I've never really figured out how I feel about religion in general, and I grew up in a Mormon household. But now I'm beginning to take an interest in Wicca. Does anybody know some good books or websites I could check out to help me learn more? Or any tips for me as I begin my learning? Are any of you Wiccan and would like to help me through this journey? :)
 
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I was raised Pagan and was surrounded by Wiccans for most of my youth. It’s certainly interesting, but it’s sort of a newer superstitious version of paganism. It’s fun I guess but to be honest if you want to get into the mystery religions there are better places to start.

Wicca is more like a ritualized community for those who have studied the old religions, then a faith in itself. If you start there then you will just meet people who are A) Way deeper into the esoteric then you could ever be just by studying Wicca. Or B) End up hanging around with 10th graders who like to set things on fire and spray paint pentacles on everything.

Read this. It’s “the Secret Teachings of all Ages” by Manly P. Hall, written in the early 1900s

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125048.pdf

This is a good source and full of info about the Mystery religions. A bit complicated but at least it will show you what you are getting yourself into.

There is a lot to it though, so it’s not something to take lightly.

Good luck.
 
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From what i understand of Wicca it grew out of a collaboration between Gardner and Crowley who wanted to revive the pagan traditions

Crowley strongly rebelled against his christian upbringing after being raised as one of the Plymouth Brethren

There's no doubt that Crowley was a scoundrel but he did make a lot of knowledge available to the public that before was jealously guarded by societal elites in organisations such as freemasonry and the hermetic order of the golden dawn

Common people have been persecuted as 'witches' by the authorities for centuries but the authorities themselves were listening to wizards such as John Dee and Michael Scot and hoarding knowledge in the form of the Corpus Hermeticum, goetia and other occult sciences.

But now the genie is out of the bottle and we can all access a lot of this info because of people like Crowley who said 'mystery is the enemy of truth'

Wicca seems to focus on female mysteries while freemasonry focusses on male mysteries

At the heart of the western magickal tradition though is qabalah

Dion Fortune's book 'The Mystical Qabalah' is well regarded as a good starting point

Some say that christianity and judaism are simply the literal interpretations of qabalistic concepts

Other female authors you might find interesting are Alice Bailey (her first and last books are meant to be her best...the others are apparently hard going) and Madame Blavatsky

As they say however 'sharks swim in all waters' and there are unscrupulous people involved in the occult like there are anywhere, so don't let anyone ever pressure you into doing anything you are not comfortable with
 
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muir said:
From what i understand of Wicca it grew out of a collaboration between Gardner and Crowley who wanted to revive the pagan traditions

Crowley strongly rebelled against his christian upbringing after being raised as one of the Plymouth Brethren

There's no doubt that Crowley was a scoundrel but he did make a lot of knowledge available to the public that before was jealously guarded by societal elites in organisations such as freemasonry and the hermetic order of the golden dawn

Common people have been persecuted as 'witches' by the authorities for centuries but the authorities themselves were listening to wizards such as John Dee and Michael Scot and hoarding knowledge in the form of the Corpus Hermeticum, goetia and other occult sciences.

But now the genie is out of the bottle and we can all access a lot of this info because of people like Crowley who said 'mystery is the enemy of truth'

Wicca seems to focus on female mysteries while freemasonry focusses on male mysteries

At the heart of the western magickal tradition though is qabalah

Dion Fortune's book 'The Mystical Qabalah' is well regarded as a good starting point

Some say that christianity and judaism are simply the literal interpretations of qabalistic concepts

Other female authors you might find interesting are Alice Bailey (her first and last books are meant to be her best...the others are apparently hard going) and Madame Blavatsky

As they say however 'sharks swim in all waters' and there are unscrupulous people involved in the occult like there are anywhere, so don't let anyone ever pressure you into doing anything you are not comfortable with
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I hope you mean Vivianne Crowley and NOT Aleister. Aleister influenced his own form of paganism - Thelema. He has no strings to Wicca. The "Mother of Wicca" is Doreen Valiente and she has no correlation to Aleister. In fact, there are very few correlations to Wicca and Thelema. The Hermetic Code is the all encompassing book that influenced a lot of Neo-pagan groups AND physicists.
 
bionic said:
I hope you mean Vivianne Crowley and NOT Aleister. Aleister influenced his own form of paganism - Thelema. He has no strings to Wicca. The "Mother of Wicca" is Doreen Valiente and she has no correlation to Aleister. In fact, there are very few correlations to Wicca and Thelema. The Hermetic Code is the all encompassing book that influenced a lot of Neo-pagan groups AND physicists.
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No i mean Aleister Crowley

These people all knew each other and were sparking off each other; they all wanted to revive pagan traditions.

I don't know how much of Wicca is a continual tradition but Margaret Murray and Robert Graves wrote some interesting books on the goddess tradition in Europe

Would you be happier if i specified that i was speaking of 'Gardnerian' Wicca?
 
Slightly off topic, I remember being very curious about the esoteric when I was 19-- I went to my province's capital city to the only Wiccan bookstore, and ordered a book by Israel Regardie on the rituals of the Golden Dawn. I shilled out $ 25.00 and waited a week for them to get back to me, they never did. Fed up, I called them: 'I'm sorry Sir, we can't bring those kinds of books here.' This particular store also sold a lot of women's clothing, and the mood was light indeed. Far to light for the Golden Dawn.
 
Incarnate said:
Slightly off topic, I remember being very curious about the esoteric when I was 19-- I went to my province's capital city to the only Wiccan bookstore, and ordered a book by Israel Regardie on the rituals of the Golden Dawn. I shilled out $ 25.00 and waited a week for them to get back to me, they never did. Fed up, I called them: 'I'm sorry Sir, we can't bring those kinds of books here.' This particular store also sold a lot of women's clothing, and the mood was light indeed. Far to light for the Golden Dawn.
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Yeah when money and spirit collide.....that's not a good thing! There are a lot of people turning a fast buck.

Jesus had the right idea......no commerce in the temple!

Regardie's a good author....very clear
 
@RecklessDreamer so what are you looking to get into? You want it for the spells? I think people who get into to wicca want some level of powerz. Soo. What do you want to do with it? Just asking. Curious. Or?
 
muir said:
No i mean Aleister Crowley

These people all knew each other and were sparking off each other; they all wanted to revive pagan traditions.

I don't know how much of Wicca is a continual tradition but Margaret Murray and Robert Graves wrote some interesting books on the goddess tradition in Europe

Would you be happier if i specified that i was speaking of 'Gardnerian' Wicca?
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Actually, I practice certain occult rituals and have delved into divination as a form of spiritual practice. So as someone who identifies as a Spiritualist (more specifically - Spiritual Occultist) and has studied Occult rituals, Hermeticism, and Thelema for a very long time, I am deeply offended by the misrepresentation here.

Occultism is not the same as Wicca. Wicca is a type of Neo-Paganism (new modern form of Witchcraft) and Occult (or organized magic) is the study of magic, alchemy, ESP, astrology, spiritualism, and divination. Many Neo-Pagan sectors are influenced from the basic Hermetic teachings but they have intensely morphed over time into their own ideals... for example, Wiccans mainly believe in the two deities - a god and a triple goddess (or goddess) which is usually referred to a singlegodhead or duotheism. Some Wiccans define them as two distinct deities. It depends on your form of Wiccan practice. Then of course you take into account the Wiccan Rede, covens, magic rituals, the ideals of the pentagram (spirit, fire, water, earth, wind), and so on.

Yes, Aleister Crowley knew Gardner but they were not interconnected in their practices. Some Wiccans do use the term 'magick' to refer to Wiccan magic but ultimately that term is mainly associated with the Thelema practice. Gardner was influenced by some of Crowley's works but Crowley was never the father of Wicca nor directly associated with it. Crowley is the father of Thelema and was once a member of the esoteric Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. So Wicca did not grow out of the collaboration of Gardner and Crowley, if anything... Gerald Gardner and Doreen Valiente (one of Gardner's High Preistesses) collaborated together on introducing the Wiccan Rede (a code of Wiccan ethics) in their coven.

@RecklessDreamer I would try reading the Wiccan Rede first and some other titles by Gardner and Valiente if you want to know more.
 
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There used to be something called paganpedia, but I cannot seem to find it now. It had a lot of good info on it.

I used to be very interested in Wicca.

http://www.amazon.com/25-best-books-Wicca/lm/30H27FHFJ2L4L

There are some books you can consider reading.

Basically, there are solitary practitioners and then there are people who join covens. There are like a dozen+ different types of Wicca. There are a bunch of other new or reconstructionist traditions out there as well. A lot of solitary practitioners are highly eclectic (and eclectic Wicca can be consider a type of Wicca). On the other hand, some people will say you aren't really Wiccan if you don't join a coven; however, you're at risk for being called a fluffy-bunny anyway.

Most importantly, if you do actually look for a coven to join, make sure the people in it are not insane.
 
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bionic said:
Actually, I practice certain occult rituals and have delved into divination as a form of spiritual practice. So as someone who identifies as a Spiritualist (more specifically - Spiritual Occultist) and has studied Occult rituals, Hermeticism, and Thelema for a very long time, I am deeply offended by the misrepresentation here.

Occultism is not the same as Wicca. Wicca is a type of Neo-Paganism (new modern form of Witchcraft) and Occult (or organized magic) is the study of magic, alchemy, ESP, astrology, spiritualism, and divination. Many Neo-Pagan sectors are influenced from the basic Hermetic teachings but they have intensely morphed over time into their own ideals... for example, Wiccans mainly believe in the two deities - a god and a triple goddess (or goddess) which is usually referred to a singlegodhead or duotheism. Some Wiccans define them as two distinct deities. It depends on your form of Wiccan practice. Then of course you take into account the Wiccan Rede, covens, magic rituals, the ideals of the pentagram (spirit, fire, water, earth, wind), and so on.

Yes, Aleister Crowley knew Gardner but they were not interconnected in their practices. Some Wiccans do use the term 'magick' to refer to Wiccan magic but ultimately that term is mainly associated with the Thelema practice. Gardner was influenced by some of Crowley's works but Crowley was never the father of Wicca nor directly associated with it. Crowley is the father of Thelema and was once a member of the esoteric Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. So Wicca did not grow out of the collaboration of Gardner and Crowley, if anything... Gerald Gardner and Doreen Valiente (one of Gardner's High Preistessess) collaborated together on introducing the Wiccan Rede (a code of Wiccan ethics).

@RecklessDreamer I would try reading the Wiccan Rede first and some other titles by Gardner and Valiente if you want to know more.
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I think you've misunderstood me

I didn't say that Crowley was the 'father' of Wicca

I said that Wicca 'grew out of a collaboration' between the two. A collaboration is simply working together towards a goal.

The goal in this case was a pagan revival. The two men worked together as Gardner was initiated by Crowley into the OTO and Gardner incorporated Crowleys works into his book of shadows and inevitably Crowley was influenced by gardner as well.

Both had travelled widely and studied many spiritual paths and there would have been a certain amount of cross pollenation of ideas between the two of them

So from this Wicca (Gardnerian Wicca) grew

Sure others played a part in developing it such as Valiente, who came later, but there was a strong link initially between Gardner and Crowley and both sought a pagan revival

At the end of the day this is about a spiritual journey and that can incorporate many different things as both Gardner and Crowley did on their journeys
 
muir said:
I think you've misunderstood me

I didn't say that Crowley was the 'father' of Wicca

I said that Wicca 'grew out of a collaboration' between the two. A collaboration is simply working together towards a goal.

The goal in this case was a pagan revival. The two men worked together as Gardner was initiated by Crowley into the OTO and Gardner incorporated Crowleys works into his book of shadows and inevitably Crowley was influenced by gardner as well.

Both had travelled widely and studied many spiritual paths and there would have been a certain amount of cross pollenation of ideas between the two of them

So from this Wicca (Gardnerian Wicca) grew

Sure others played a part in developing it such as Valiente, who came later, but there was a strong link initially between Gardner and Crowley and both sought a pagan revival

At the end of the day this is about a spiritual journey and that can incorporate many different things as both Gardner and Crowley did on their journeys
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... But they did not seek a pagan revival nor a collaboration together. They did not have a goal to revive pagan traditions together since Aleister met Gardner later on in his life when the OTO and Thelema already started.

Gardner brought some of Crowley's work while he was on his death bed and they only met a few times in their life. Crowley DID introduce and initiate Gardner into the OTO but Gardner wasn't really bothered with practicing heavily under Aleister.

"Gardner also became a member of the O.T.O. in May—his membership is confirmed by two accounts of a copy of The Book of the Law being presented to Gardner from Crowley. The details of the accounts differ, but they agree that the book was presented to Gardner to mark the occasion of his initiation or affiliation with the Ordo Templi Ortis. In America, Gardner didn’t pursue his interest in the O.T.O. first because of illness, which is what initially compelled him to go overseas, and secondly because the people Crowley had instructed him to contact either. It is also possible, though there is no evidence for it, that Gardner and Crowley quarreled during the autumn months. An argument of some sort would explain Gardner's later bitterness towards Crowley, which is not evidenced in any of their summer correspondence and doesn't show up until after Crowley's death. Whatever the cause of Gardner's failing interest in the O.T.O., his involvement with the order didn't resurface again until just after Crowley's death.

Gardner did not, in fact, have a charter naming him as Crowley's successor in Europe. Though Gardner's active involvement with the O.T.O. fades during the later half of the '40s, he continued to look back upon his brief association with Crowley. These recollections form the second source of information regarding their relationship, and an element emerges that wasn't present in the correspondence that remains from 1947-48 the witch cult and Crowley's relation to it. Starting in 1950, Gerald Gardner started disassociating himself from Crowley in favor of Wicca—a process that culminated publicly with the 1960 publication of his biography. Existing documents from Gardner before Crowley's death do not include mention of the witch cult, but with the publication of High Magic's Aid, Gardner began to talk more about his involvement with the witches."

Also, Gardner had some pretty interesting things to say about Aleister, which weren't so positive:

"By the way Aleister Crowley was in the Cult, but left it in disgust. He could not stand a High Priestess having a superior position & having to kneel to Her & while he highly approved of the Great Rite, he was very shocked at the nudity. Queer man, he approved of being nude in a dirty way, but highly disapproved of it in a clean and healthful way. Also he disapproved of the use of the scurge to release power for the practiced reason if you teach a pupil the use of the scurge, he can get a mate & do it on his own. If you have a highly paying pupil, if you teach them the concentration & meditation method they go on paying you for years. But he didn't samply pinch lots of the witches ritual & incorporate it in his works. He claimed that he rewrote the Rituals for them but I doubt this. He did re write some Masonic rituals, and made an awful hash of them."

So after Gardner distanced himself from Crowley and O.T.O., he started to create his own practice - Wicca.

Sources:
http://www.geraldgardner.com/Gardner46-49.PDF
 
@bionic

We're clearly not going to agree on this but that doesn't mean we have to fall out over it as what's important is that people are free to approach this how they want to and can find what works for them

I stand by my assertion that Gardner was heavily influenced by Crowley and that Crowleys influence can be discerned in Wicca

Also they were attempting to revive pagan traditions

I think Gardner later wanted to have his own thing and wanted to deny the importance of Crowleys influence on him and distance himself from someone who had developed a lot of notoriety!

People can do their own research and draw their own conclusions but we can agree to disagree
 
I think Crowley's influence is plain to see in Wicca. He coined the term 'magick' to differentiate ceremonial from stage magic. That is the term used in Wicca nowadays. Of course, in terms of their religious philosophy and practices, Thelema and Wicca are very different.
 
Thank for all the good tips everyone! I must admit I'm a little more confused now lol but I'll figure it out.
 
It's also important to note that Witchcraft and Wicca are not the same thing, even though they are often used interchangeably. Wicca is a religion, and (in my view at least), if you are Wiccan, you are not any other religion, (i.e. Christian). Witchcraft is a practice, which can be a part of anyone's spiritual practice, regardless of their religion or lack thereof. There are Jewish Witches, Christian Witches, Gnostic Witches, etc. One common slogan is "All Wiccans are Witches, but not all Witches are Wiccans". As an aside, there are some who call themselves Christo-Wiccans or Christian-Wiccans, but in my view, they are mostly those who use the term Wiccan and Witch interchangeably. My view is, if you're more concerned with the magical side of it, look into witchcraft, hoodoo, and various forms of folk magic. But if you're interested in the actual religion of Wicca, with its views on deity, relation to the world, etc., look into Wicca.

I myself consider myself a Druid, and once I save up some money after I eventually get a full-time job (hopefully!), I plan on joining the AODA (www.aoda.org).
 
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