No problem, glad to be of help. Looking forward to reading your Fi description.
I don't understand Fi
- Thread starter rainrise
- Start date
No problem, glad to be of help. Looking forward to reading your Fi description.
Sure sure. I'll post it whenever it gets done. We're having trolling problems on the forum I'm writing it for, which held me off today 
. How the hell do you attract a troll when you only have like 12 active members?
. How the hell do you attract a troll when you only have like 12 active members?Actually, I think I've figured this out. I don't think its necessarily the Fe that makes FJs more selfless and concerned about the group; I think it's their Judging function and I think it has the same affects in TJ types as well. Like what you said before Defective Creative about how Thinking Judging is used as a way to organise information and whatever well, I mean first of all I disagree, I think it's also a way of seeing the world but you could say the same thing about FJs only they organise the way they emotionally think about ppl and things with their Judging funtion. I deffinately think that's it, that its the J function which causes an individual to be more concerned with the group while P function causes a person to be more "self interested" because, believe it or not, TJs are pretty selfless in their TJish way. They are very dependable and will work tirelessly for the benifit of the group. For eg. ESTJs work to creat a smoothly running environment for everyone to enjoy and go all out on occasion like birthdays and christmas parties, things that are meaningful to multiple ppl. In there own way, Js selflessly serve the group.
And ESTJs are cool imho.
And ESTJs are cool imho.
I definitely have more Fi than Fe. I need to reread this thread later in greater detail, because it has explained a lot of things for me.
It must be the Ti in me that continually hones my philosophy, ever seeking better and simpler ways to define my inner code. The code itself, however, is completely Fi. For the most part, my inner code is independent of any words I use to define it. My words change, but my code does not. Therefore, my actions do not change except where semantics are concerned, or if later philosophizing reveals a better way to achieve good.
To me, happiness is paramount. Everything else can pretty much be derived from that. I would have everyone on earth be as happy as possible if I could simply wish it so. But I cannot. Therefore, my goal is to maximize happiness. However, I cannot be the world's source of happiness. Sure, I can help out here and there, but if people continually turned to me to provide their happiness as well as my own, the well would run dry. Therefore, I draw wisdom from the old phrase "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." Clearly, feeding someone for a lifetime is a much greater gift than feeding them for a day. And it is the same with happiness. However, it is just as great a feat to teach everyone how to be happy as it is to be the source of their happiness. And so, the simplest solution is to work for the happiness of myself and my loved ones - to be a shining example of happiness in the hope that others will follow my lead. In the end, however, that which makes me most happy is the happiness of others.
The above is the closest I have been able to define my inner code thus far. Though this is indeed a selfish philosophy, note that it is not selfish at the expense of others. Another great benefit of being a shining example of my own happiness is that no fish or happiness or whatever is forced upon anyone. In order to be happy, they must make their own choice, which they of course have the right to do.
So pretty much every action I've done ever has been an attempt to increase total happiness, and as a result my own happiness. That's my Fi.
It must be the Ti in me that continually hones my philosophy, ever seeking better and simpler ways to define my inner code. The code itself, however, is completely Fi. For the most part, my inner code is independent of any words I use to define it. My words change, but my code does not. Therefore, my actions do not change except where semantics are concerned, or if later philosophizing reveals a better way to achieve good.
To me, happiness is paramount. Everything else can pretty much be derived from that. I would have everyone on earth be as happy as possible if I could simply wish it so. But I cannot. Therefore, my goal is to maximize happiness. However, I cannot be the world's source of happiness. Sure, I can help out here and there, but if people continually turned to me to provide their happiness as well as my own, the well would run dry. Therefore, I draw wisdom from the old phrase "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." Clearly, feeding someone for a lifetime is a much greater gift than feeding them for a day. And it is the same with happiness. However, it is just as great a feat to teach everyone how to be happy as it is to be the source of their happiness. And so, the simplest solution is to work for the happiness of myself and my loved ones - to be a shining example of happiness in the hope that others will follow my lead. In the end, however, that which makes me most happy is the happiness of others.
The above is the closest I have been able to define my inner code thus far. Though this is indeed a selfish philosophy, note that it is not selfish at the expense of others. Another great benefit of being a shining example of my own happiness is that no fish or happiness or whatever is forced upon anyone. In order to be happy, they must make their own choice, which they of course have the right to do.
So pretty much every action I've done ever has been an attempt to increase total happiness, and as a result my own happiness. That's my Fi.
All the J types have either Fe or Te as their main judging function, whilst P types have Ti or Fi as theirs. So even introverted TJ types like INTJs are outward focussed when it comes to "Judging" because Fe and Te both make decisions base on external criteria, simliarly even extroverted P types like ENFPs are inward focussed when it comes to "Judging" because Ti and Fi make decisions based on internal criteria.
So in other words you're right, all the J types are (generally speaking) more "selfless" in this respect when it comes to decision making than all the P types.
WaeV said:
FWIW, I think that's a great philosophy.
What about INTJs? Actually, the fictional character Ozymandias from the Watchmen is a good example of INTJ selflessness. He worked tirelessly to execute his plan to save the world from nuclear holocaust. He even compartmentalized his emotions enough to be able to destroy New York City in order to do it. He has a funny way of expressing his Fi. "He really does care, but you still all have to die."
As far as INFPs go, Fi works with Ne as a sort of checks and balance. Ne is sort of the tunnel to the external wold where we perceive info, and Fi assigns value. In this manner, we don't arbitrarily form values, but it's after much consideration of the patterns we've found and the connections we've made. So Fi has a framework built over time, just as Ti does. Our framework is our set of ideals, and this again comes via Ne, which can see what is not there, but what could be, based on what is there.
So Fi is a rational thought process, but because it is values based and considers emotion, it is subjective. Ti is objective in the sense that it's separated from emotion, but it's still an individual's subjective view.
Because Fi is subjective, it means we look beyond the black and white logic, and include ethics and emotion as variables (this is why we have strong compassion). If something brings about the desired outcome, it may be logical, but if it violates a value, then it is unethical, and therefore it is wrong, even if it makes "sense". Emotions can guide the judgments Fi makes also, such as determining something is bad for yourself because it makes you feel bad, and that's also why we accept individual values (what's good for one person is not good for everyone).
However, Fi can operate separately from emotion because our ideals can clash with our emotions. Since Fi is rational, we can recognize when our emotion is not and then go against our emotion.
Other times, our ethics and/or emotions can distort our perspective and that's when Fi seems illogical, because it's gotten lost in its subjectivity. We may have assigned so much value to something that we lose sight of what is actually more important in reality.
We're selfless in the sense that we seek internal harmony, but not just in ourselves. The goal is internal harmony for everyone. Fe can seem "surface" to us because it's so group-oriented, whereas we are individual-oriented. Fi will tolerate getting messy externally if it means cleaning things up internally. That's the way we heal, and also why we don't value social etiquette as much as personal authenticity. Strangely enough, this makes us more universal in our feeling, because there are no groups, but rather just individuals.
So Fi is a rational thought process, but because it is values based and considers emotion, it is subjective. Ti is objective in the sense that it's separated from emotion, but it's still an individual's subjective view.
Because Fi is subjective, it means we look beyond the black and white logic, and include ethics and emotion as variables (this is why we have strong compassion). If something brings about the desired outcome, it may be logical, but if it violates a value, then it is unethical, and therefore it is wrong, even if it makes "sense". Emotions can guide the judgments Fi makes also, such as determining something is bad for yourself because it makes you feel bad, and that's also why we accept individual values (what's good for one person is not good for everyone).
However, Fi can operate separately from emotion because our ideals can clash with our emotions. Since Fi is rational, we can recognize when our emotion is not and then go against our emotion.
Other times, our ethics and/or emotions can distort our perspective and that's when Fi seems illogical, because it's gotten lost in its subjectivity. We may have assigned so much value to something that we lose sight of what is actually more important in reality.
We're selfless in the sense that we seek internal harmony, but not just in ourselves. The goal is internal harmony for everyone. Fe can seem "surface" to us because it's so group-oriented, whereas we are individual-oriented. Fi will tolerate getting messy externally if it means cleaning things up internally. That's the way we heal, and also why we don't value social etiquette as much as personal authenticity. Strangely enough, this makes us more universal in our feeling, because there are no groups, but rather just individuals.