I Am An Alcoholic

[John K]

I'm inclined to believe that it's always a symptom, though some brain chemistries are predisposed to addictive behaviour anyway... hmm, yeah.

@A Guy has asked for our trust and forgiveness, so it's cautiously given. Hopefully it will be earned in time.

Yeah - that's where I'm at.

 

[noisebloom]

I don't smoke marijuana but my friends who do, believe it or not, are pretty positive guys.

 

[Infjente]

@A Guy What have you done on this forum that has left people to doubt your sincerity? In your own words?

 

[noisebloom]

Having used (and abused) more substances in my life than I really should have, one of the most important lessons I've learned is that you can't lose your sober self. You need to be able to allow yourself to feel the full range of emotions when you're sober and be able to deal with that; that's your mind and body at its purist.

The easy way out is distraction, but you'll never really face life if you are constantly compulsed.

Get better and don't look back.

 

[Ifur]

I'm inclined to believe that it's always a symptom, though some brain chemistries are predisposed to addictive behaviour anyway... hmm, yeah.

A variety of addictive drugs produce an increase in reward-related dopamine activity.[89] Stimulants such as nicotine, cocaine and methamphetamine promote increased levels of dopamine which appear to be the primary factor in causing addiction. For other addictive drugs such as the opioid heroin, the increased levels of dopamine in the reward system may only play a minor role in addiction (note by ifur: psychological) .[95] When people addicted to stimulants go through withdrawal, they do not experience the physical suffering associated with alcohol withdrawal or withdrawal from opiates; instead they experience craving, an intense desire for the drug characterized by irritability, restlessness, and other arousal symptoms,[96] brought about by psychological dependence.

This is taken from Wikipedia, and does very little for understanding these issues. However, alcohol dependance is thought to be the alteration of dopamine receptors due to excessive use which then require a steady supply to keep balance in the neurochemistry.

While it is impossible to blame anything psychological property directly on a chemical, neurtransmitter or mechanism. One has to talk about regulation, and how different systems interact; where an advice for lay people is to ask what this does to the Ca2+ channel, if you can't answer this you likely don't know what you are talking about. What impacts this channel for example is serotonin agonists, where a less popular theory of migranes is an imbalance and buildup related to 5-HT (serotninin receptors) where things like LSD and Psilocybine are the most effective treatments known against migrane.

Talking about serotinin is mainly to create a context to discuss alcohol psychosis as related more to the dopamine system rather than serotonin system -- don't treat headaches with alcohol or painkillers.

Now, marijuanana has many different things in it that are highly relevant to discuss:
THC, CBD and CBN as the main three -- and here all discussions about serotonin and dopamine becomes are bit irrelevant again.

THC impacts serotonin but almost not at all, while CBD helps REGULATE the dopamine system in the brain, lastly CBN have anxiety effect tht regulated THC.

There are three strains of weed on the market these days, or actually many many more. High in CBD and THC, while high in CBN is much less common and maybe required for some.

Know what you are doing if you want to switch to weed rather than continuing to be an alcoholic.
Where CBD may aid in making a better alcohlic, rather than actually treting it if there isn't enough THC in it, etc... That it medically reduces both physical and psychological dependence should not be a question for debate, it does.

 

[Infjente]

Having used (and abused) more substances in my life than I really should have, one of the most important lessons I've learned is that you can't lose your sober self. You need to be able to allow yourself to feel the full range of emotions when you're sober and be able to deal with that; that's your mind and body at its purist.

The easy way out is distraction, but you'll never really face life if you are constantly compulsed.

Get better and don't look back.

I believe this 100%. Solid and true advice.

 

[Infjente]

This is taken from Wikipedia, and does very little for understanding these issues. However, alcohol dependance is thought to be the alteration of dopamine receptors due to excessive use which then require a steady supply to keep balance in the neurochemistry.

While it is impossible to blame anything psychological property directly on a chemical, neurtransmitter or mechanism. One has to talk about regulation, and how different systems interact; where an advice for lay people is to ask what this does to the Ca2+ channel, if you can't answer this you likely don't know what you are talking about. What impacts this channel for example is serotonin agonists, where a less popular theory of migranes is an imbalance and buildup related to 5-HT (serotninin receptors) where things like LSD and Psilocybine are the most effective treatments known against migrane.

Talking about serotinin is mainly to create a context to discuss alcohol psychosis as related more to the dopamine system rather than serotonin system -- don't treat headaches with alcohol or painkillers.

Now, marijuanana has many different things in it that are highly relevant to discuss:
THC, CBD and CBN as the main three -- and here all discussions about serotonin and dopamine becomes are bit irrelevant again.

THC impacts serotonin but almost not at all, while CBD helps REGULATE the dopamine system in the brain, lastly CBN have anxiety effect tht regulated THC.

There are three strains of weed on the market these days, or actually many many more. High in CBD and THC, while high in CBN is much less common and maybe required for some.

Know what you are doing if you want to switch to weed rather than continuing to be an alcoholic.
Where CBD may aid in making a better alcohlic, rather than actually treting it if there isn't enough THC in it, etc... That it medically reduces both physical and psychological dependence should not be a question for debate, it does.

 

[acd]

As far as I can tell, the only damage done to us would be to the short amount of time we've spent on this, which is much less than would be worth risking on the potential recovery of an alcoholic.

Well said. I've followed this thread but haven't really noticed @A Guy's trolling too much.But what does it really cost to give the benefit of the doubt and offer support or just forgive someone if you've been offended over the internet?

 

[Ifur]

Well said. I've followed this thread but haven't really noticed @A Guy's trolling too much.But what does it really cost to give the benefit of the doubt and offer support or just forgive someone if you've been offended over the internet?

There is also this about Ni that make INTJ's well equipped at shooting down flaming and trolling on the internet primarily caused by everyone being negative.
Some have a tendency to assume insults are understood, that behind every sentence there is an insult waiting to come out.
If there is a way of asuming the worst or a chance of being the defender of common sense, opinion, perception or to rise above in some way or another.

Excuses, accusations, first impressions and low expetations will be flying all over the place.
@A Guy needs to try harder for self loathing and degradaing opinions of the self are going to be matched.
Things are rarely what they seems, and people either care too little or too much for all the wrong reasons.

 

[acd]

There is also this about Ni that make INTJ's well equipped at shooting down flaming and trolling on the internet primarily caused by everyone being negative.
Some have a tendency to assume insults are understood, that behind every sentence there is an insult waiting to come out.
If there is a way of asuming the worst or a chance of being the defender of common sense, opinion, perception or to rise above in some way or another.

Excuses, accusations, first impressions and low expetations will be flying all over the place.
@A Guy needs to try harder for self loathing and degradaing opinions of the self are going to be matched.
Things are rarely what they seems, and people either care too little or too much for all the wrong reasons.

My point was what difference does it really make if he is not sincere? (I grant that he is sincere.) What impact does it have on anyone's life outside of here? Maybe I'm seeing this from the outside because I haven't been as active.

And if the former posts he's made have wounded that deep and maybe it's a good idea to look at oneself and figure out why someone's appeals for attention over the internet have had such an impact. Idk. I read some posts history and didn't see anything earth shattering enough to warrant kicking a guy when he's down.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

And if the former remarks he's made have wounded that deep maybe it's a good idea to look at oneself and figure out why someone's appeals for attention over the internet have had such an impact. Idk. I read some posts history and didn't see anything earth shattering enough to warrant kicking a guy when he's down.

A Guy has had at least two other accounts - @chris[Something] and @Coffee with some shenanigans, but like you say none of it has been bad imo.

The 'worst' posts were just a bit incomprehensible that's all, and occasionally members would be attacked, but looking back at the pattern I think you can see what was going on (drinking).

 

[Skrimpshidy]

You cautious, John?

As far as I can tell, the only damage done to us would be to the short amount of time we've spent on this, which is much less than would be worth risking on the potential recovery of an alcoholic.

It’s much easier to help on other topics. We’re intimately familiar with.

When it comes to addiction there are several factors involved to which limit.

One; Addicts cannot and will not be helped unless they themselves want help. Even then only they can make the changes. We can only off words of support, affirmation, and encouragement.

Two; Many aren’t addicts. There is no way to understand the struggle. Though, all humans have an addiction. It’s not the same say, addicted to sugar or cigarettes, as it is to be addicted to a mind altering substance. Substances do cloud thinking, reasoning, and emotion. The brain literally get’s rewired after a time.

Three; It’s a subject that may reopen old un dealt with issues. I guess triggering is the right words.

 

[Ifur]

My point was what difference does it really make if he is not sincere? (I grant that he is sincere.) What impact does it have on anyone's life outside of here? Maybe I'm seeing this from the outside because I haven't been as active.

And if the former posts he's made have wounded that deep and maybe it's a good idea to look at oneself and figure out why someone's appeals for attention over the internet have had such an impact. Idk. I read some posts history and didn't see anything earth shattering enough to warrant kicking a guy when he's down.

And my point was that this question arrested assumptions and perhaps even appeals to ignorance in combination with the original person essentually begging a rather negative question.

 

[April]

A Guy has had at least two other accounts - @chris[Something] and @Coffee with some shenanigans, but like you say none of it has been bad imo.

The 'worst' posts were just a bit incomprehensible that's all, and occasionally members would be attacked, but looking back at the pattern I think you can see what was going on (drinking).

It was @chrisclarke

 

[Deleted member 16771]

And my point was that this question arrested assumptions and perhaps even appeals to ignorance in combination with the original person essentually begging a rather negative question.

 

[Skrimpshidy]

A

The 'worst' posts were just a bit incomprehensible that's all, and occasionally members would be attacked, but looking back at the pattern I think you can see what was going on (drinking).

Yes! The pattern. Addicts definitely have a pattern. It’s similar to the cycle of abuse really. Which makes sense because addicts repeat the cycle over and over.

During active addiction we become selfish. We berate ourselves to ourselves. Then tey to be better to ourselves. (Honeymoon phase) We begin self loathing again. (Tension building) Then full on hate talk or other destructive behaviors (Abuse phase).

The abuse phase also has a tendency to lash out towards others. Where a small frustration, minor disagreement (real or imagined) gets exaggerated. Since the addict is already angry with themselves, lashing out at others happens.

Later, maybe sober for work (if they’re functioning) we realize what we’ve done. It will cause us to use more to escape the humiliation and guilt for hurting someone’s heart or feelings in anyway. Deep down we know we’re not that way. Yet the actions and words still hang in the ether.
We will try to make up for it, apologize, even swear off the substance. At the time we mean we will quit.
We don’t quit most times. We convince ourselves it won’t happen again because we really don’t think or feel hateful towards anyone.

Addicts generally lack the ability to forgive and love themselves.

 

[Skrimpshidy]

OMG! That made me laugh! Thought it was just me wondering WTF.

 

[Infjente]

@Ifur I'm sorry. I just don't believe in marijuana for psychologically related issues. Medical or not.

I was a heavy user for a whole year in my early twenties (lived in Rogaland then actually, with a bunch of base jumpers). Never did drugs before or after, but from what I saw and learned during that year - I'll remain convinced that continuous (or anything more than occasional) use of marijuana (of any chemical composition) is either bad for your mental health, or not doing it any good/being a better option than not using at all.

I mean no disrespect for those who find it useful or helpful, but I personally think it's a making you feel better, making you worse-trap. I'm not saying I believe that people who are using regularly are not mentally well, far from it! But using it for the purpose of curing/bettering mental health conditions? No, I don't believe in that.

 

[Ifur]

@Ifur I'm sorry. I just don't believe in marijuana for psychologically related issues. Medical or not.

I was a heavy user for a whole year in my early twenties (lived in Rogaland then actually, with a bunch of base jumpers). Never did drugs before or after, but from what I saw and learned during that year - I'll remain convinced that continuous (or anything more than occasional) use of marijuana (of any chemical composition) is either bad for your mental health, or not doing it any good/being a better option than not using at all.

I mean no disrespect for those who find it useful or helpful, but I personally think it's a making you feel better, making you worse-trap. I'm not saying I believe that people who are using regularly are not mentally well, far from it! But using it for the purpose of curing/bettering mental health conditions? No, I don't believe in that.

Thankfully we have science and medicine and don't need to rely on your personal experience in alternative communities.
Where thrill seekers are quite likely to try other things with social antennas well enough developed to keep everything else going on hidden.
If you were uncomfortable with marijuana and didn't liek that too much, and weren't into base jumping mainly for the adrenalin kick, you may not have seen what was really going on.
Noradrenalin pills all kinds of crazy things are going on those communities, where medical marijuana may be the only reason that they cope.
Also socialle acceptable enough that it's better to blame it on that.

I'm just saying, i know what kind of people you are talking about; and I'm from Rogaland.
I have never heard anyone from that community say it would be nice with a spliff or joint, it's more cocain, amphetamines and the like to go run stupid and dance in the forests.

What you will find that is truly going on, is a combination of exchanging perscription drugs between themselves, mixing in the right way to get a buzz. Then they go on complaining about things like weed and heorin as nobody has relly heard about norephinerin agonist and noradrenalin pharmaceutical drugs.

Problems from weed isn't common unless in places and communities where they mix weed with PCP, also known as whacky baccy -- look it up, and you find stories about best friends starting fighting and almost killing each other. The route to learning what things to say to a doctor to get really cool perscriptions is rather short.

What I'm saying here is that when you get surprised about some friends and aquaintances getting drug problems or mental health problems, and all you know about is alcohol and weed. You should be a bit more cynical and perceptive, as you may have heard about reall weird things and not been part of thrill og drug seeking behaviour extreme.

Some groups of friends, cicles and clicks you don't really want to be incldued into that close. Most of the thrill seekers that end up with problems usually havent limited thrill seeking in early teens to alcohol, and also don't tend to limit themselves to weed at University.

 

[acd]

And my point was that this question arrested assumptions and perhaps even appeals to ignorance in combination with the original person essentually begging a rather negative question.