Hypothesis: there is no J.P deep inertia in one's personality. It is a volatile detai

[Arising Tale]

Hypothesis: there is no J/P deep inertia in one's personality. It is a volatile detail in ones personality.
I thought this deserved it's own thread.

Premise to discuss: Perceivers are unresolved, while Js are resolved.

Personal:
I am resolved and purpose driven. Before when I was more P, life was a question. Now that that question was answered with impartiality and perfection (despite my limitations) to the point where it satisfies action.
1 Year ago, my biggest ''worry''(Not worried at all, but technically can be considered one) was that there was not enough time to understand truth enough to take appropriate action and time to take the action afterwards.
Without correct direction, effort is wasted. It is more efficient to correct the direction before advancing, will it be applicable for too much of my lifetime?
After resolution, I became J while retaining my active P abilities. Disclaimer: This was natural and had nothing to do with fitting in some MBTI chart.
Now life is also a quest.

All productive observation, data and concepts are welcome.

 

[Skarekrow]

Hypothesis: there is no J/P deep inertia in one's personality. It is a volatile detail in ones personality.
I thought this deserved it's own thread.

Premise to discuss: Perceivers are unresolved, while Js are resolved.

Personal:
I am resolved and purpose driven. Before when I was more P, life was a question. Now that that question was answered with impartiality and perfection (despite my limitations) to the point where it satisfies action.
1 Year ago, my biggest ''worry''(Not worried at all, but technically can be considered one) was that there was not enough time to understand truth enough to take appropriate action and time to take the action afterwards.
Without correct direction, effort is wasted. It is more efficient to correct the direction before advancing, will it be applicable for too much of my lifetime?
After resolution, I became J while retaining my active P abilities. Disclaimer: This was natural and had nothing to do with fitting in some MBTI chart.

All productive observation, data and concepts are welcome.

Having always tested the same for over 15 years I can say that IMO it has more to do with the mental well-being and maturity of the individual and not what the MBTI has assigned them.

 

[jyrffw54]

I'm personally not a fan of the J/P dichotomy either. Not all Js are organized,punctual, and rigid and not all Ps are messy, tardy, and flexible.
XNFJs and XNFPs only "differ by one letter", but they each have completely different congitive preferences.

Lets take an INFJ and an INFP for example:
INFJs ,like all Introverted Judgers, lead with inward perception (Ni). If you are Ni dominant, you are either INFJ or INTJ. You would then look at how you judge (Fe over Fi) (Ti over Te), but that's a different thread lol.

INFPs, all introverted percievers, lead with a judging function. INFPs lead with Fi. You would then observe how you percieve your external environment (Ne over Se).

 

[Arising Tale]

Having always tested the same for over 15 years I can say that IMO it has more to do with the mental well-being and maturity of the individual and not what the MBTI has assigned them.

Can you continue on ''has more to do with the mental well-being and maturity of the individual''?

 

[Skarekrow]

Can you continue on ''has more to do with the mental well-being and maturity of the individual''?

Sure.

I only mean that I have met and talked with both INFJs and INFPs, and I don’t believe that an INFP is a less resolved version of the INFJ.
Also, the MBTI is a great general guideline, but it isn’t the “end all” for who that person is.
It is not a static model, it’s a “developmental” model.
An INFJ at a young age will differ wildly from an older INFJ.
Harold Grant who taught at Auburn University and who worked with Isabel Briggs Myers described it best...

(The term “individuation” was coined by Jung…but is synonymous with “growth” or “development")

1st period - 6 to 12 years (Introverted Intuiting)

By innate preference you were drawn in childhood to develop your imagination and creativity. Perhaps you created an imaginary playmate, or several, with whom you secretly lived while your parents wondered about your dreamy silence. Only a favorite friend or two, or a wise and gentle parent, was permitted to share your world of make-believe. Teachers frequently had to remind you that you were not paying attention. It is hard for you to remember the details of this period, especially as details did not engage your interest. But you do recall the general atmosphere, whether of happiness, sadness, pain, or pleasure.​

The auxiliary function, extraverted Feeling, usually starts to develop around age 12 and continues until about age 20. ​

​

2nd period - 12 to 20 years (Extraverted Feeling)

While continuing to perceive in a predominantly intuitive way, you now become aware of a desire to give expression to your life of feeling. Sensitivity to your own feelings and compassion for others became characteristic of you, and because you were led to manifest these qualities others came to know you predominantly through them. You perhaps surprised yourself by becoming more outgoing, in contrast to your previous shyness. You became more aware of ways in which you could help others, especially the poor, the suffering, the underdog, and you may have joined groups committed to the service of others. You may have found it difficult to find time for yourself in the process of obliging others.​

The tertiary function, introverted Thinking, typically develops when one is between ages 20 and 35. ​

​

3rd period - 20 to 35 years (Introverted Thinking)

At twenty you experienced a tendency to become more independent, more your own person, and became critical of your previous habits of submission to the wishes of others. Because this development was taking place in an introverted way, you were not fully able to explain to others your new determination to become more autonomous; hence others may have been offended or baffled by the change in you. At the beginning of this period you probably felt you were handling the transition badly, but your conviction that it was right helped you to persevere and grow. The solution to your occasional ineptness was, you believed, in going forward toward assertiveness, not back to your earlier submissiveness.​

The INFJ's fourth function is extraverted Sensing.

Since it is opposite the dominant function, people sometimes make dramatic shifts in their personality -- what is sometimes labeled a "mid-life crisis" -- during this phase of development. They may become radically different persons from how they were in the past, although this will not necessarily be so if has been able to embrace change along the way and have individuated previously in a healthy fashion. The fourth function usually develops sometime after age 35.​

​

​

4th period - 35 to 50 years (Extraverted Sensing)

At this point you begin to experience a call to develop your least acknowledged gift, your sensing. Now you began to notice the details of life around you, which previously, in your basic preference for exploring the possible, had not engaged your interest. As if for the first time you took pleasure in the exercise of some or all of your senses. You probably became keenly interested in such things as doing things with your hands, playing a musical instrument, taking up a craft, or collecting and classifying objects; and you engaged in this type of activity with a precision which contrasted strongly with your previous vagueness about the life of the senses. Now in fact you became somewhat impatient with inexactitude, daydreaming, and disorder in yourself and in others. Your preference now was for engaging in the newly found life of the senses in company with others, not in solitude. You liked to have someone with you as you attended concerts or visited museums; and your companions were struck with your attentiveness to the fine details of artistic creation.

​

The timing of these stages varies with the individual. Some develop their dominant and auxiliary functions clearly and reliably by their early twenties; others may find it a much slower process. Some will reach the traditional midlife period and find that they have not, for various reasons, developed one or both of their preferred functions.​

For most people, midlife transition takes place between 35 and 50 years of age. However, some are plunged into premature midlife reassessment by a divorce, job loss, serious illness, or the death of a relative or friend. Some people don't seem to go through a midlife transition, but rather experience a burst of growth toward the end of life.​

Once all four of the main functions have developed (or "individuated"), it's anybody's guess what happens next. Some people believe we proceed back through the pattern "backwards," while others say we start over at the top but in the opposite attitude and work from there.​

Whichever way it works, the consensus appears to be that, if we live long enough, we will eventually develop all eight of the processes and become fully individuated.​

​

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[heiots]

1st period - 6 to 12 years (Introverted Intuiting)

By innate preference you were drawn in childhood to develop your imagination and creativity. Perhaps you created an imaginary playmate, or several, with whom you secretly lived while your parents wondered about your dreamy silence. Only a favorite friend or two, or a wise and gentle parent, was permitted to share your world of make-believe. Teachers frequently had to remind you that you were not paying attention. It is hard for you to remember the details of this period, especially as details did not engage your interest. But you do recall the general atmosphere, whether of happiness, sadness, pain, or pleasure.

I find this accurate. I never had an imaginary friend, but my world was built with books and fictional characters. I was a nerd during childhood (who didn't even recognize she was a nerd), spending recesses in the libraries, didn't hang out with friends, and had absolutely no idea that wasn't "normal". But I was contented. I brought my books everywhere - on the bus, while walking, in the bathroom, etc. I also had my trusty tape recorder that I'd use to record songs that made me feel...well, feel something close to fulfillment. The key to my memory really is emotion. I remember trying to read storybooks behind my school textbook, getting caught for bringing a music device when it wasn't allowed, and being accused for cheating because I did a Math problem mentally instead of working it out on the paper. I was seven maybe and probably the first time I was punished (and cried embarrassingly) in class. Being the ultimate wallflower, those were the 'highlights' of my childhood experiences in school.

Your preference now was for engaging in the newly found life of the senses in company with others, not in solitude. You liked to have someone with you as you attended concerts or visited museums; and your companions were struck with your attentiveness to the fine details of artistic creation.

Well now, wow. That's a change, and not even hanging out with people because it's 'right' but because there's a preference for it. Anyone knows how to work on this extraverted Sensing trait?

 

[Skarekrow]

I find this accurate. I never had an imaginary friend, but my world was built with books and fictional characters. I was a nerd during childhood (who didn't even recognize she was a nerd), spending recesses in the libraries, didn't hang out with friends, and had absolutely no idea that wasn't "normal". But I was contented. I brought my books everywhere - on the bus, while walking, in the bathroom, etc. I also had my trusty tape recorder that I'd use to record songs that made me feel...well, feel something close to fulfillment. The key to my memory really is emotion. I remember trying to read storybooks behind my school textbook, getting caught for bringing a music device when it wasn't allowed, and being accused for cheating because I did a Math problem mentally instead of working it out on the paper. I was seven maybe and probably the first time I was punished (and cried embarrassingly) in class. Being the ultimate wallflower, those were the 'highlights' of my childhood experiences in school.



Well now, wow. That's a change, and not even hanging out with people because it's 'right' but because there's a preference for it. Anyone knows how to work on this extraverted Sensing trait?

There are some great old threads that discuss the horrors that were/are the educational system and the INFJ child.

The above article, just as any description of the INFJ or speculation between the two is purely hypothetical.
That doesn’t mean it’s wrong…just that it’s one of many ideas about how certain people behave.

 

[Erlian]

I think J and P is real.
Functions are not though, I fully agree that it's weird that INFPs and INFJs would have completely different functions.
I thus prefer to just look at the scale of J and P and leave all the cognitive functions out.

Or at least the cognitive functions are fine, the way they are rigidly stacked seperately for each type is weird.

 

[Yva]

After resolution, I became J while retaining my active P abilities. Disclaimer: This was natural and had nothing to do with fitting in some MBTI chart.
Now life is also a quest.

Oh my gosh, could the same happen for me?