How to work with people and not get frustrated

[slant]

Mistakes are one, but when people are intentionally hating and abusing each other as a self-protecting mechanism, that is the mark of a collapsing and degrading organization.

See this is where you don't understand my situation. 100% my coworkers are not acting out of hate nor being abusive. They're poor ccommunicators who have psychological roadblocks in their lives they have yet to confront. They do not have ill intentions with their actions, I would look at it more from the perspective of dysfunction possibly caused by unaddressed mental illness/ self esteem issues.

And what I have found is that 99.9% of the time when you encounter these situations, this is the case. The majority of people are doing their best and what they believe to be right. They are trying to be happy. And the thing is, judging them for it doesn't ever help. Telling an obese person they have to lose weight doesn't make them lose weight it makes the problem worse. Dysfunctional people know that they're dysfunctional, and nobody can fix them but themselves. They have to choose to fix themselves and leading by example is more effective than calling someone out because they don't bury themselves in a pit deeper of despair by someone else's judgement. Now consequences, if you don't do your job, that makes sense. But sometimes that's not what happens.

 

[mintoots]

Well you say you're trying to change corrupted systems and seem to imply there is one specific mission and that if people don't fall in line with the expectations of the mission they are derailing it.

Whereas in relativism a competely corrupted system would be impossible, only conflicting ideas, and therefore there would be no one way to solve it and instead multiple possibilities. Furthermore, if someone diverged from the mission that might be necessary.

Ah well it always depends on the agenda of the person involved. I was expressing my opinion on the matter as I personally experience it. Perhaps if universalism is what my current situation is about then I suppose it is. For now.

 

[Wyote]

I was just having fun with the words. It wasn't an actual criticism of you!

I'm still gonna look down on everyone looking down on everyone

 

[mintoots]

See this is where you don't understand my situation. 100% my coworkers are not acting out of hate nor being abusive. They're poor ccommunicators who have psychological roadblocks in their lives they have yet to confront. They do not have ill intentions with their actions, I would look at it more from the perspective of dysfunction possibly caused by unaddressed mental illness/ self esteem issues.

Ah see, I did not know this as I responded to you as this was not divulged. If my judgement of your co workers' actions were offensive, I apologize. In any case, I recognize that people have psychological roadblocks and in the act of the mistake, I will still cry foul.

 

[slant]

Ah well it always depends on the agenda of the person involved. I was expressing my opinion on the matter as I personally experience it. Perhaps if universalism is what my current situation is about then I suppose it is. For now.

Yeah see that makes sense, if you're a universalist and I'm a relativist our viewpoints will never ever match up. That's sort of a pattern I'm finding with the typing... J's tend to be hard universalists and Ps relativists. It's interesting to see the inherent differences in people's temperaments because I do believe they're genetic. It can make it difficult to communicate or work together because the framework of your entire world contradicts one another.

 

[slant]

I'm still gonna look down on everyone looking down on everyone

It's hard to express that point of view without coming across as contradictory, but at the same time, that's part of it. It's hard to be an absurdist and hold two points of views or more at the same time and realize they are all wrong because nothing is real. A real mind fuck that results in these situations because I'm human and the human mind forces us to have opinions

 

[Wyote]

It's hard to express that point of view without coming across as contradictory, but at the same time, that's part of it. It's hard to be an absurdist and hold two points of views or more at the same time and realize they are all wrong because nothing is real. A real mind fuck that results in these situations because I'm human and the human mind forces us to have opinions

All options travel the same road to the same end

Or something

 

[mintoots]

And what I have found is that 99.9% of the time when you encounter these situations, this is the case. The majority of people are doing their best and what they believe to be right. They are trying to be happy. And the thing is, judging them for it doesn't ever help. Telling an obese person they have to lose weight doesn't make them lose weight it makes the problem worse. Dysfunctional people know that they're dysfunctional, and nobody can fix them but themselves. They have to choose to fix themselves and leading by example is more effective than calling someone out because they don't bury themselves in a pit deeper of despair by someone else's judgement. Now consequences, if you don't do your job, that makes sense. But sometimes that's not what happens

This is timely because I am in a situation right now that has been a dilemma to me.

For starters, I am working with a person who is doing a very poor job. In the construction industry, documents keep track of the progress to ensure the delivery of the project. This person i am working with failed to record any of it and has even falsified documents to look like work had been accomplished although untrue. In the end, the contractor was able to bill far more than the job they have accomplished.

For one, this person is old and is unfamiliar with the rigors of the construction industry but was given the job because of camaraderie. Was it wrong of me to call out his actions? I also demoted him.

By the way, before demotion, I tried to intervene and show him a process that should be applied but he blatantly refused, several times.

There is also a pattern of protecting the contractor, which is undoubtedly foul to me. Should I not call it out?

 

[slant]

This is timely because I am in a situation right now that has been a dilemma to me.

For starters, I am working with a person who is doing a very poor job. In the construction industry, documents keep track of the progress to ensure the delivery of the project. This person i am working with failed to record any of it and has even falsified documents to look like work had been accomplished although untrue. In the end, the contractor was able to bill far more than the job they have accomplished.

For one, this person is old and is unfamiliar with the rigors of the construction industry but was given the job because of camaraderie. Was it wrong of me to call out his actions? I also demoted him.

By the way, before demotion, I tried to intervene and show him a process that should be applied but he blatantly refused, several times.

There is also a pattern of protecting the contractor, which is undoubtedly foul to me. Should I not call it out?

You're only wrong if you think you were wrong. You have to follow your own morals and values.

 

[mintoots]

You're only wrong if you think you were wrong. You have to follow your own morals and values.

Yes and in this situation, I chose to reprimand despite my knowing he cannot do anything about his incompetence. Sometimes, we have to make hard punishments on actions that are simply unacceptable. I think I do it to be understood more than to coerce others. However in the organization, the mission and the goal is often clarified and so decisions are based on these core values.

 

[slant]

Yes and in this situation, I chose to reprimand despite my knowing he cannot do anything about his incompetence. Sometimes, we have to make hard punishments on actions that are simply unacceptable. I think I do it to be understood more than to coerce others. However in the organization, the mission and the goal is often clarified and so decisions are based on these core values.

I'm glad for you following your individual truth and purpose!

 

[noisebloom]

J's tend to be hard universalists and Ps relativists.

I'm guessing Fe types in general (Dom, Aux, Tertiary, or Inferior) are not likely to subscribe to purely relativist notions, because the very idea of harmony for all within a system assumes that there's a common standard for how people should be treated. This is why Fe types "care" so much about others' behavior and are wary of deviations from the norm when it comes to behavior.

 

[slant]

I'm guessing Fe types in general (Dom, Aux, Tertiary, or Inferior) are not likely to subscribe to purely relativist notions, because the very idea of harmony for all within a system assumes that there's a common standard for how people should be treated. This is why Fe types "care" so much about others' behavior and are wary of deviations from the norm when it comes to behavior.

We all have this to a degree. It's tribalism; it's knowing that if you are rejected by the tribe, that's suicide. So we maintain basic societal standards to try to keep the tribe together.

The degree to which you do it and how seriously you take it though differs.

 

[mintoots]

I'm glad for you following your individual truth and purpose!

Lol

 

[Wyote]

We all have this to a degree. It's tribalism; it's knowing that if you are rejected by the tribe, that's suicide. So we maintain basic societal standards to try to keep the tribe together.

The degree to which you do it and how seriously you take it though differs.

I like to sit outside the tribe and play whack-a-mole

 

[Cornerstone]

I like to sit outside the tribe and play whack-a-mole

Careful. You'll go blind if you do it too much.

 

[Wyote]

Careful. You'll go blind if you do it too much.

You're not wrong lol

 

[Hba5h65]

I was really hoping that I'd get a big list of jobs that literally involve no interactions with humans at all

Well, I know people who worked in IT who left the companies they work for to work for themselves. They have no coworkers to deal with and it seems to be going well.
There could be opportunities out there for you to work alone if you give it some thought.