How do/don't you rationalize God | INFJ Forum

How do/don't you rationalize God

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Lerxst, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. Lerxst

    Lerxst Well-known member

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    I was looking over the Ten Commandments and there's something that always bothered me about them. The first 4 deal with what to/not do when worshiping God. When you read them, however, they're very... human in the emotions being displayed.

    Those Commandments coupled with other references in the Bible of a "vengeful" God, etc. all negate the argument for God in my opinion. If God is truly God, why would he display such human weaknesses such as greed, jealousy and anger? Or is God as imperfect as humans? Which then begs the question - Why worship him?

    Anyone ever see Star Trek V (or am I the only one... ever?) when they meet "God" but he needs their ship and then they immediately question a God who wold need a starship? Bingo! Same thing.

    Personally, I feel if God is the perfect being people like to believe him to be, it shouldn't matter what you believe or how you choose to live your life as long as you're a "good" person (friendly, helpful, compassionate, etc.) God granted us all free will, so if he has any human emotions, he should feel happy when he sees us use this to evolve and move on. After all, what parent still wants to see their kid living in their house with them into their 50's?

    If part of his perfection is having no emotions, then I fail to see why he would care if we did or didn't believe in him.

    And as a Buddhist, I wouldn't say that I don't believe in God. I would say that God is irrelevant. I he is real, he's either A) happy to see me practice the free will he granted me with or B) indifferent to anything I do or say. And since Buddhism also teaches about the pain and suffering anger causes and the goal is to gravitate away from that, then the idea of a jealous, angry, vengeful God negates the entire concept behind God.
     
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  2. ThisIsWhoIAm

    ThisIsWhoIAm is best pony

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    Yea those first commandments bother me as well and i don't live by them. The others i like and live by.
     
  3. muir

    Banned

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    [video=youtube;CE8ooMBIyC8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE8ooMBIyC8[/video]
     
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  4. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access. Puts Tabasco on Pizza.

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    I agree with this. I suppose I see "evil" as a consequential byproduct, or the yang, that comes with the yin of good in having free will. I believe that there is a creator, but I don't believe that there's some sort of human-like personality that has any interest whatsoever in our daily worries and intentions.
     
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  5. rawr

    rawr ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I don't.

    Faith by nature, is not completely rational. Also, biblically speaking, He is not without emotion. Meaning he would care about if we believed in him or not.
     
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  6. Bikerdelic

    Bikerdelic Spammer

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    "What if god was a metaphor for the universe and that we were created in its image?" Alan Watts.
    It seems that due to new developments in quantum physics, it appears that knowledge is fundamental to existence and the universe.
    It follows reason that if Knowledge is fundamental to existence, so then consciousness, as without consciousness and awareness, knowledge could not be realised, understood and processed into language and communicated to peers and society.
    So what if! what some people believe to be God is in effect the very consciousness of the universe which is also paradoxically connected to our own?
    Here is a short video link concerning the developments in quantum physics and is good link for further research for anyone interested in this field of science.
    The truth is out there and within.

    [video=youtube;ayvbKafw2g0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayvbKafw2g0&list=PLc2cPQ-1yeZB2Ru_B6UnclxF7SbYmnF2b[/video]
     
    #6 Bikerdelic, Jul 1, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
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  7. SealHammer

    SealHammer Flying Quesadilla

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    Faith in an almighty creator is an outdated concept which people constantly adapt to the progressively more knowledgeable society in order to cling to the idea that they are special, unique beings deliberately designed by said almighty creator and put here for a reason, because they are afraid of the idea that they are a genetic coincidence - an accident.

    God has been getting smaller and more abstract since the middle ages, and that's good. Eventually people will be able to help each other because they genuinely enjoy helping each other and not because they are driven by some divine imperative.
     
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  8. Bikerdelic

    Bikerdelic Spammer

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    I don't believe in God, Seal Hammer, I was making another point about universal consciousness, nothing more and nothing less.
     
  9. Sloe Djinn

    Sloe Djinn Idiot with Internet Access. Puts Tabasco on Pizza.

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    Burn the heretic!!!!!!!!!!!!! D=<
    The creator wills it!!!
     
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  10. SealHammer

    SealHammer Flying Quesadilla

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    I wasn't responding to you. I would have quoted you if my statement was in response to you.
     
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  11. Bikerdelic

    Bikerdelic Spammer

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    oh Seal hammer sorry miss understood your line of written thought, thought it was in response to my post, my apologies. Its always the case with texting and the like, easy to get the wrong end of the stick, as it doesn't have the same interactions that real face to face conversations have.
     
  12. Kanamori

    Kanamori Permanent Fixture

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    There's a difference between what God is and what people say God is. By definition, a creator would necessarily be unknowable, in entirety, by us. Anyway, assuming God, all morality would come by God as his own, and any other idea of morality would be, frankly, wrong.

    There's something in the bible about not naming God and thinking it is the true nature or the extent of God -- I think that's where the G-d comes from.
     
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  13. Nixie

    Nixie Resurrected

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    Belief in god is not the sum of spirituality.
     
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  14. Gul Dukat

    Gul Dukat Community Member

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    Yes, this.

    If you think you need to rationalize God, then you're missing the point.
     
  15. OP
    Lerxst

    Lerxst Well-known member

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    Surely there's some thought behind the reason that says "Yes. I believe!"
     
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  16. rawr

    rawr ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    yes, - i'll explain that tomorrow in this thread. if you want.
     
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  17. charlene

    charlene never mind no matter nevermind

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    The gods and religions created and worshipped by people reflect the culture, beliefs, environment, values, ethics, wisdom and knowledge of those people. Most information tells us more about the author than anything else. In this sense, the ten commandments as seen in the Christian Bible inform us about the beliefs of the people that wrote the commandments.

    Religion is a very human construction. Basically we humanise 'God' and we create rules, commandments, laws, norms and values to order our society in the ways in which we deem that our god would approve of. We create values that reflect who we think we are, and we imagine that this is how 'God' must be. It can be a very effective way of controlling people, through coercion, social pressure, cultural norms, guilt, shame and the big one- Fear.

    I have no issue with religion, it is what it is, and it can be very helpful to people. And there are many important and profound truths, wisdoms, joys and healings to be found in religion. And there are many religions, many of which i dont know or understand in detail. But i do feel from my personal experience that religion separates us from God. And many religions do not help us create a happier and more peaceful world. Religion can separates us from each other. Religion can separate us from life itself, and our true nature. Spirituality is our path to God. Not what others have to say about God, but our own personal experience of God. Religion tells us what to believe. Spirituality asks you to remember, find, experience and create your truth. In many ways i believe that spirituality is simply true and deep awareness of who we are. Through my own personal exploration, through meditation, becoming aware of what is going on around me, being honest with myself, and genuinely searching for truth- i came to the absolute realisation that God is All that Is, We are One, God is Love and our true nature is Love, God is Source Energy, I Am, I Am God, You are God, We are all God, and that we, as God, and God as we, are/is consciousness evolving and experiencing the joy of creating Itself! We/God are the creator, the process of creation and the creation.

    I was brought up as a Christian, with the Bible and the ten commandments. Even by the age of 5, i was terrified of God described in the Bible. I grew to hate him, and couldnt imagine why that God was such a jerk, yet Jesus was such a beautiful and loving soul. I read the Bible many times, trying to understand. There were many parts in it i liked and i did resonate with. But as a whole, i didnt resonate with it. I didnt think it was intuitevly true. it had 'man's touch all over it, and incredibly immature human emotions. I decided that if this god existed, he was simply immature, and frankly, a jerk. And not as nice as me and the people in my life. And incredibly judgemental, paranoid and jealous. In time as i grew older, i explored many religions, philosophies, histories, sciences and beliefs and found that nothing really resonated with what i felt was true but there was interesting stuff in all of them. And then after a time, i was able to understand the human frailities inherent in many religions and beliefs and forgive the people that created it and the people that believed and tried to get me to believe in something so weird and fearful. And i forgave the character called god in the bible and chose to love him, and the people that created him unconditionally. I accepetd that there was no character called God. And then i found God, as the Source Energy, As the All and the One, As Everything, as the Gestalt, and most profoundly, as me. And that was a shocking revelation. I felt so amazing and inspired, yet i felt embarassed, and certainly didnt want to tell anyone that- hey, i was meditating the other day, and i realised that i was God, Oh My God! But after a while, this truth was experienced more and more and i came to accept it, it was as undeniable as knowing that I AM. I felt more foolish not sharing it than just admitting what i knew was my truth.

    I recently read a book called 'Conversations with God' by Neale Donald Walsch. i absolutely loved it. God is awesome, and exactly how i imagined and expected God to be. Incredibly likeable and loveable and well, perfect. I can hardly describe how i felt reading this- it was like yes yes yes, exactly- thats what i think too! I know, we all like hearing and reading things that we agree with- which doesnt necessarily make them true. Anyway, there are 3 books and they need to be read together, because there were some parts in the first book where i read a part and though, what the fuck, this is simply not true! And at those times i told God exactly what i thought and God told me to stay true to truth and my intuition. And then when i got to the the third book, all those 'iffy' bits made perfect sense and i have to say were the right way to word things in hindsight.


    In the book God says there is no such thing as the ten commandments. God says that when He'She was communicating to Moses about these 'commandments', they were actually supposed to be 'commitments'. Signs that we would see when we are alligned with God. In the context of this book, God is All That Is, and we are all individuated portions of the Great God Gestalt. And God does not 'care' about what you do, as you are here to exercise free will, create and co create with others. God does not judge you.

    -http://www.theglobalconversation.com/blog/?p=3816
     
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  18. Nixie

    Nixie Resurrected

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    religion is not the sum of spirituality either
     
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  19. just me

    just me GONE

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    Galations 3, Romans 7, Hebrews 10 and need to get back to work for now
     
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    #19 just me, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  20. hk427f3

    hk427f3 Community Member

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    This is the point. Why would the supreme creator of the universe, who knows and loves me dearly, require me to suspend rationality? Why not only create irrational beings from the start?

    This is how I rationalize not-god.
     
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