Homosexual relations, natural or not?

I didn't really want to get into this topic in this thread, but since you have decided to go here...

Your definition of "natural" is that which is in accordance with God's design, not what actually occurs in nature. So the whole "pro natural" argument is just another way of saying that you believe in Paul's conception of gender roles as understood through a teleological view of the world. It has everything to do with scripture, because homosexuality has been observed in over 400 different species of animals and is especially common among social animals, particularly primates. It makes up a substantial amount of the sexual activity of Bonobo chimps, our closest genetic hominid relative, and is used as a social bonding agent.

Also primates, and early humans were no exception, typically form tribes in which the males go off to hunt for food, while the females stay in groups to protect the offspring. In addition to that, if you wish to make an argument those who are incapalbe of having their own children should be forbidden from adopting, then you are also making an argument against all infertile heterosexual couples. I see nothing selfish about wanting to raise a child. It is an incredible sacrifice of energy and resources to do so. I see it as incredibly selfish to impose your religious beliefs on others and deny them an opportunity to do good in the world. I find it amusing that you think this has nothing to do with religion.

 

I'm sorry to say that nature does not support your stance.

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I'm not angry at you. To be frank, I pity people who hold the kind of misconceptions you hold. You don't know any better. You were raised a certain way and you look to the world to support the views with which you were raised. I challenge misconceptions in order to educate people and in order to stop the spread of ignorance.

 

Is this a mediation or a debate?

 

The mediation is over, and now its become a debate. I could probably split this off into a new thread, but I'll leave it to some other mod to decide whether that is appropriate.

 

The observations I stated were of animals in the wild. I posted a video above in order to substantiate my arguments. As far as rape, that has nothing to do with homosexuality or heterosexuality. You would not judge all of heterosexuality by the men who rape women would you? It makes no more sense to judge all of homosexuality by men who rape men. The majority of gay people form consensual relationships, just as the majority of straight people form consensual relationships.

 

It's both, and I'm not moving anything. Please both of you keep your crap here, and don't spill it out into the rest of the forums,

 

As I said, I don't feel anger for people who hold misconceptions of homosexuality, only pity.

 

Threads in this part of the forum are for when a dispute gets personal and the parties involved need to hash out their differences.

In other words the first major complaint was Von Hase's with yourself (justme) and mayflow chiming in.

Since you've since engaged in further debate regarding homosexuality in the animal kingdom etcetera, this is no longer a mediation of personality problems. In which case a new thread should be started in the forum (so all of us can jump in).

I am jumping in and commenting with the hopes that both of you will get the hint and voluntarily move the debating to the main forum area.

Did that spell it out enough for you justme?

 

I've known many homosexuals who were resentful toward Christianity. In fact, I can't recall any who weren't. The hostility seems to stem from the fact that most Christians view homosexuality as an anathema of some sort, and some Christians treat homosexuals badly because of this. I can understand how having someone insist that it is wrong for you to love the way that you love could foster hostility. I can also understand how easy it would be to blame a large degree of society's prejudices against homosexuals on being rooted in Christianity.

It seems that perhaps the reason for your hostility against scripture is that scripture is what these sorts of people use to validate their mistreatment of homosexuals.

Scriptures also state that God loves everyone, no matter who they are, how they are, or what they do. God loves gay people just as much as straight people. According to the bible, God loves gay people just as much as he loves the most devout of Christians, as well as the people who don't have a clue what it means to be a Christian but seem to think they are anyway.

I'm sorry if you've had to endure hardships, even the subtle ones that add up over time, at the hands of people who don't know how to practice their religion.

*hug*

 

Is it really that hard to believe that some people are born straight and some gay?

And who the hell is to judge who is practicing their religion "correctly"? You? Our president? Book written by many scribes? Spock?

I can talk about scriptures as well, hows this one in relation to love?


If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21


Stoning him with stones, that he die... for disobeying parents; thats classic.

 

It's true, it's nice to relate to others on deeply thought ideas but it's also refreshing to gain new ideas and perspectives.

However I couldn't imagine living a life where I never discuss differences. To me that would be a life without color and excitement. I want differences I want intelligence debates, I want to be proven wrong, I want to see my downfalls. How else will I grow, certainly not purely by universal conformity.

 

Although I would like to support Satya's argument about homosexuality in nature. Homosexuality is actually much more common that most people realize; dolphins even have homosexual sex in order to maintain good standings in their groups.

 

I'm sorry, you cant prove religion, you just can't. It is completly subjective. The feelings you have for someone should not be dictated by someone else, or by what something happens to say. It causes NO harm to you what so ever, therefore should not be restricted. I'm sorry, but I am not going to hold back, I think it is mildly pathetic that you would prefer to be pityed by someone.