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Generation Wars

Discussion in 'History, Travel, and Culture' started by tovlo, Jan 24, 2019.

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  1. Asa

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    We're "The Slacker Generation". LOL! LOL!

    What are people's thoughts on "OK BOOMER"?
     
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  2. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    We have our shit together??
    Really?
    I think we've just had more practice hiding it, lol.
     
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  3. John K

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    Inter-generational critique is a sign of a well balanced rational society. Prejudice in any form is a gift to the devils.
     
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  4. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    LOL!
    I think we have much lower expectations that other generations bordering us, so we do have our shit together but we expect and want less.

    I think it is backlash. Millies and Gen Z are tired of the Boomer attitude toward them and the fact that many Boomers refuse to grasp the changes that are happening and need to happen, sometimes purposefully and sometimes accidentally. I also think it is a bratty response that every young generation has toward older generations: old people are squares. (And yes, I purposely used 'out of date' slang to make my point.)
     
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  5. John K

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    Yes I agree - and when I talk of prejudice I meant it in both directions. I get the impression that this boomer issue is more of an issue in the US than in other places but maybe I’m just out of touch. I’ve never felt part of any collective myself and have an instinctive revulsion for collectives - that’s not to say I haven’t got some of the worldview of my generation. Not that many of them share much of my own worldview.

    I do think that antipathy between the generations is a necessity part of the cycle of life. You get it in a microcosm within families- where teenagers and parents are programmed to be at loggerheads because this is essential to the youngsters severing their dependency ties and becoming independent. The same between generations.

    I dislike prejudice intensely though in whatever context it presents, because it’s an attempt to dehumanise the other.
     
  6. Asa

    Asa Resident palindrome

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    I agree with you.
     
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  7. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    This is true as well!
    Yeah...we caught the first wave of the "lazy, slacker, good for nothing" critiques by the very generation that created those conditions within the job market and society in general (at least in the US).
    I agree that huge change needs to take place - and now we seem to have the numbers to start making those changes - whereas us Gen X'rs would have liked to have made those changes a long time ago, and have tried for years with fluctuating success...but due to a lack of numbers we have not been able to compete with the Boomers, consequently, many X'rs became apathetic to the whole process (and rightly so).
    But now...for the first time in many decades the Boomers are no longer going to be the majority - and Trump I believe is a reaction to that fear of that Gen. losing power...like a desperate person drowning grasping at anything - pulling under everyone who gets too close!

    I hope that didn't sound prejudicial? @John K
    I also agree with what you wrote...though it also has an added flair here in the US as you suggest imo.
    The Boomers are of course made of a variety of folks and many probably felt they had little to no control over the way this society progressed and how it swindled and destroyed many opportunities for generations to come...but some still think that you can work at McDonalds and put yourself through college with no problem...just work harder...that saying of 'pulling up your bootstraps' no longer applies to a rigged economy and the capitalist gouging machine that the US has become.
    Over half of Millennials cannot afford ANY health insurance at all.
    That's unacceptable.
    I don't blame the Boomers per say - just the psychos it produced who destroyed the social safety nets here in the US for purely greedy purposes.
    The same goes for climate change and the continuing denial mostly by that Gen. so they can continue to make more money while polluting and destroying the planet - who cares if the Earth burns down, we'll be dead and we'll die rich type attitude.
    Anyhow...I'm not grouping everyone in that Gen. all together....each generation has their flaws, poor ideas, and selfish intentions unique to them.
    And not everything they've done has been bad...but a lot of policies at least here in the US have been very destructive to the generations after.
    Lots of love!
    :<3white:
     
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  8. Asa

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    Well said, @Skarekrow. I like your metaphor of the drowning person grasping and pulling others down.

    And yes, there are different kinds of people in every generation.
     
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  9. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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    Thanks!
    I certainly don't blame the vast majority of the Boomers, that is for sure - it was mainly a few really bad players who ruined it all.
    It's kind of like how they are now touting the job numbers as so great...unemployment is very low on the surface yes...
    But what kind of quality are the jobs?
    In a society that now mostly relies on their employer to provide health insurance and other benefits - wages have stagnated since the early 80's and more and more "benefits" are removed each year - pensions, family leave, unions protections, a decent wage that keeps up with inflation, etc.
    Sure...the job numbers are low because everyone has two or three!
    They are low-wage, insecure garbage.
    80% living paycheck to paycheck??!!
    Past generations have all invested in future generations, or the very least the future of their country...infrastructure, education, health care, etc...until you hit the Boomers.
    And again - I'm not saying it was any Boomer's fault in particular...it just so happened to happen the way it did and during said time period.

    Instead of investing in the future though - there was a purposeful divestment in the generations that followed in order to maintain the standard of living they became comfortable with (which was a keeping up with the "Jones's" mentality).
    They were heavily invested in by their own parents...fucked around for years in the 60's and 70's but were still able to finance college themselves without loans (impossible now unless you are wealthy)....were able to find good paying jobs, with good benefits - most were single income earners with wages that allowed them to do so and still buy a house and a car while the spouse stayed home and raised the kids...many had unions to protect their interests and job security.
    Their children and generations to follow are now seeing a much lower standard of living than their parents/grandparents here in the US.

    The 80's saw the growth of the greed that is now a pervasive religion in the US.
    They blew it all up...starting with Reagan ignoring existing Federal laws and busting the Air Traffic Controllers union, which set a new and terrible precedent.
    What we have now is a generational economic divide that grows larger each year.
    There may very well be some kind of angry backlash directed toward them after they lose the majority of power.
    It will be interesting to see what happens...
     
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  10. Asa

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    That is how it has played out, yes. There are different kinds of Boomers though.


    Also, only people currently collecting unemployment are counted in the unemployment rate. When they phase out of qualifying they are often still unemployed but no longer count as "unemployed". They're invisible.


    It was easy and popular to skip out on paying back student loans during the 70s and before. This caused loan companies to change policies during the 80s so Gen X faced much different circumstances for student loans than Boomers did. After that student loans got worse and worse.


    Yes. I wonder what it is going to be like going forward. Housing costs and costs of living are so high and there are few well-paying jobs and industries for Americans to work in. Older Millies and Gen X may pay the price of, for example, their homes being underwater as the economy settles into what the future America can afford.

    Decent retirement homes are very pricey, too, and count of people selling homes that have skyrocketed in price. I keep wondering how this os going to play out.

    I also hope Gen Z keeps their proactive, positive attitude and that they make real change. Don't get jaded, Gen Z! Don't give up! Signed, Gen X.
     
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  11. Hostarius

    Hostarius Magniloquent Malapert

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    I feel like I need to add a caveat here about inter-generational relations in the UK, in response to @John K pointing out that the antipathy between Boomers and Millennials seems to be mostly as US thing.

    Where I grew up, in the industrial north of England (on the border between West and South Yorkshire), a sense of awe was still held by Millennials towards Boomers because of Boomer militancy during the 1980s against the neo-liberal economic policies of Thatcher's government. Most of all, the 1984 Miner's Strike was seen in almost the same terms as 'the last war', and the generation that 'fought it' as a 'great generation'. There was (is) a huge deal of sympathy leveled from them (the Boomers) towards us (Millennials) about our current economic circumstances, because they saw which way the wind was blowing and actively fought against it. There is not the same kind of 'blaming' between the generations because the Millennials appreciate that the Boomers tried to stop what was happening, while the Boomers are very clear that the Millennials have been 'fucked over'.

    I grew up in a mining town (in fact, the local colliery held out the longest in the strike), and I would say that this kind of inter-generational regard still persists in these former mining heartlands - the antipathy between generations is not an inevitable pattern, and genuine respect can persist between them. However, having said that, this is perhaps a situation unique to working-class (former) mining communities of almost universal Labour-voting political affiliation.
     
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  12. Skarekrow

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    Totally...nailed it.
    :<3white:

    This sounds to be very true that it is mostly a thing here in the US ^^^.
    Both from your own post and John K's.
    Though, again...there are a lot of really good people who had very little power to change what was happening...even less so than the miners you wrote about.
    We once had laws with union protections...those were fought for and people died to get them...and for a long time those laws protected the workers here in the US, but as some became corrupt (see Jimmy Hoffa ((or don't lol))), it was used as an excuse to bust up the unions.
    When the air traffic controllers had a nation-wide strike, Reagan broke federal laws and ordered them by penalty of law to return to work.
    Which is total BS.
    It set the new precedent that has been on a downward slide for several decades now in the US.
    Not just with unions, but any sort of power to collectively/individually bargain for better pay, benefits, health insurance is a big one, etc.
    Pensions vanished...retirements vanished and turned into 401K's that lost huge value in the stock market crash.
    College became unaffordable at the same time 17-18 year olds were approved for 6 figure student loans when you would be laughed out of any bank requesting such money for a small business loan.
    Starting new in the job market already saddled with that much debt set up to make it nearly impossible to repay - and their parents complain about them still living at home!

    So while it sounds like you had people still fighting for you...we had far more here in the US who decided to gouge their own children to make a buck or two.
    @John K Really, I hope you don't think I feel any anger or hate toward any generation - like I said, the psychos calling the shots are the ones to blame - we just had a bit more apathy toward fighting back perhaps...IDK.

    Here's a good case in point for the US -
    Millennials earn 20% less than baby boomers did—despite being better educated
    Published Tue, Nov 5 2019

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/05/mil...2N9oXJTCmzjgirSxTLjdUitlzi5E4nxAbrXObdqVysVog

    Rising health-care costs stall Americans’ dreams of buying homes, building families and saving for retirement
    Published Mon, Nov 4 2019

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/04/hea...y-americans-from-hitting-life-milestones.html

     
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  13. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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  14. John K

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    Not at all Skare. There’s nothing new under the sun and the tension between generations is natural and inevitable. When I was the same age as the Millennials are now things were just the same - we resented the guys who had set off two world wars and seemed hell bent on blowing it up completely. We disliked their religions and their outmoded Victorian attitudes. They were the Illuminati who controlled the World to their own personal benefit. They resented our attitudes which seemed anarchic and immoral to them, didn’t understand the new morality that was born in the young, and feared the outcome as they foresaw it. The Cold War was a strange thing because the real underlying conflicts were subsumed in the older generations’ desperate need to project their own demons onto the perceived enemy. I think the US in particular would have torn itself apart socially without the Cold War. You can see this potential in the dichotomy of modern attitudes today.

     
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  15. Maikl Jexocuha

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    Totally agree with this. Trump is the baby-boomer's "last hurrah!" Lol.
     
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  16. Asa

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    I think this apathy is cultural. After the 60s protests against Vietnam and the Civil Rights movement, plus feminism protests, a lot of Americans decided, "Our work here is done."
    I saw a significant difference in punk culture. In Europe our friends were protesting for any reason and living much more radical lives than people in the US were. I think this is because Europeans have so many other cultures and governments nearby to compare to and because the World Wars happened on their soil, while those wars were far away for the mainland US. We live in a bubble here because our country is so big and cut off from most others. This has all kinds of side effects in the (general) American life and mindset.
    Even now, when discussing inequality the counter argument is often, "We already took care of that in the 60s. Everyone is equal now." Millies and Gen Z are vocal about the inequality that still exists.

    When there were pro choice and women's rights and healthcare rallies and the big Roe V Wade anniversary a lot of Gen X women didn't participate and responded with, "We already have that right. It won't go away."
    At the anniversary in my city my group of five young women looked around and we were the only Gen Xers we could see in the crowd of Boomers, except for a few young women working for NARAL.

    That said, protest was considered less effective, and the 'protest cages' and 'designated protest areas' didn't help. Protest is supposed to be disruptive and make people uncomfortable. The general response to Beyonce and Kaepernick demanding that they protest on their own time and in a way that is comfortable for everyone is so very American.
     
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  17. Skarekrow

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    Thanks John!!
    :<3white:
    It sounds like things over in the UK and Europe continued where the disheartened youth in the US left off after Vietnam, the assassinations of both the Kennedy's, the Kent state massacre, etc. seemed to cause the momentum gained in the 60's to come to a grinding halt.
    And people here do live in a bubble...it's really obvious whenever I've traveled out of country.
    Some people are downright moronic travelers, I say that in the nicest way, lol.

    See ^^^^ you rock John...that kind of thinking is what I connect to no matter the age...people like you, and @Sandie33 , @Kgal ....you didn't buy into the Gordon Gecko "Greed is good!" pronouncement that seemed the herald the spin off into untethered, unregulated, and destructive capitalist practices that have created an insane wealth gap.
    I don't blame anyone really but those who sold people parcels of land on the moon...lying to the public while destroying the interests of those very constituents when they turned their back.
    And there are a lot of people who still buy into the BS that is told to them...like Trump trying to nix the ACA healthcare...what?
    People didn't know better...they thought they were doing the right thing at the time.
    I get that.

    Anyhow...not meaning to go off on a rant again hahaha.
    I love all my Boomer friends and family!!

    :<3white:

    Hopefully!!
    :<3white:

    Thanks!!
    That's really disheartening about the lack of X'rs. :(
    Let's hope they wake the hell up and see that they are dismantling Roe as we type.
    *sigh*
    It's out of sight, out of mind for so many folks.
    And it's hard to blame them for feeling so.
    There is already so much going on and bombarding us from every direction these days.
    The loss of personal time is insane.

    I'm not sure what the hell it's going to take in the US to pop that damn bubble and get people out in the streets.
    What more needs to happen?
    I won't get into details but I think you get the issues.

    Such constant daily 24/7 negative news creates apathy.

    Thanks!!
    Much love!
    :<3white:
     
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  18. Skarekrow

    Skarekrow ~~DEVIL~~

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