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General Enneagram Discussions

KazeCraven

KazeCraven

Graduated from Typology : May 2011
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Aug 9, 2009
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Okay, is this actually true? If so, I might actually be a type 5.

Your Type Five EnneaThought for August 20th—Your Basic Fear is of having no ability to know what's real and true. See how this is affecting your heart, mind, and body today.
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I thought type 5 was concerned about competence...? This has a distinctly different connotation to it; much more existential in nature.
 
KazeCraven said:
Okay, is this actually true? If so, I might actually be a type 5.



I thought type 5 was concerned about competence...? This has a distinctly different connotation to it; much more existential in nature.
Click to expand...

These things seem related to me. One stems from the other. If you don't know what's real and true, how can yoube competent?
 
Well, there's a difference between wanting to be competent and wanting to know the truth.

If you don't know what's true, you're a lost soul in a sea of madness.

If you aren't competent, you can still know what's true, but just not the practical truths. This one seems a lot more image-based or self-protection based. There's a huge difference between knowing the truth and being capable of using this truth to be helpful or to achieve something, or to gain status, etc.

Or am I just adding a lot of needless stuff on top of being competent? Other descriptions of type 5 just seem so focused on collecting irrelevant or rather, insignificant information. It's like the difference between being concerned with metaphysics, spirituality, and morality as opposed to being concerned with chemistry, anthropology, and aerospace engineering.

ETA: Though I guess I can see why they'd take liberties with the thing and rephrase it like that. I wonder which connotation is more accurate though?
 
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Competence could be a one thing or a five thing depending on where it stems from. one's and five's are similiar as they want to be correct, they just want to be correct with different things.
 
Care to elaborate a little on the difference? Though I guess it's pretty much splitting hairs at this point.
 
It pretty much is splitting hairs. It comes down to this though. With ones they need things to be right with everything, but they tend to ephasize on things and situations and less on facts. If the "ends justify the means" then they can easily disregard incorrect information because the overall scheme of it is "right"

Fives care about information being right. If the ends justify the means but the facts and info is wrong, they will not see it as justified because not everything is "right". To them it would be defective which is one of their core vices.

Ones are situation focused
Fives are information focused
 
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IndigoSensor said:
With ones they need things to be right with everything, but they tend to ephasize on things and situations and less on facts. If the "ends justify the means" then they can easily disregard incorrect information because the overall scheme of it is "right"

Fives care about information being right. If the ends justify the means but the facts and info is wrong, they will not see it as justified because not everything is "right". To them it would be defective which is one of their core vices.

Ones are situation focused
Fives are information focused
Click to expand...

Agree with what is said about Fives.

Here is where the difference lies between a core 5 with a 1 gut fix and a core 1 with a 5 head fix. If they have to choose either one of them but not both, a 5 would definitely pick the information and a 1 would definitely pick the situation and sacrifice the other.
 
Clarification

Seems to be the case that Enneagram is all about emotional strategies or, more controversially, really ingrained personality habits.

What you value, or what gets you out of bed in the morning, isn't relevant. Well, okay, it is in the sense that you have some autopilot motivations going on. Even if you think that something is important, or feel a certain way, your enneatype, i.e. your strategy, will get in the way. So, even if, deep down, you don't feel that whatever is important, if you consistently act in such a way that reveals some part of you does, that's where your type lies. You could say it's subconscious.

It's difficult to say that this pitfall applies to everyone (I think it might be unique to those of my type), but the above is in contrast to ideas or mental images that are motivating to you. Consciously wanting to express your individuality doesn't make you a type 4; compulsively worrying about your identity and emphasizing your individuality in spite of yourself does. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, it is usually the case that your personality type is getting in the way of your instincts, and not vice-versa.


Anyway, I thought I'd share this because, from this perspective, my enneatype is obvious.
 
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KazeCraven said:
Consciously wanting to express your individuality doesn't make you a type 4; compulsively worrying about your identity and emphasizing your individuality in spite of yourself does.
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I wouldn't say "consciously wanting to express your individuality" is non-Four though, but that alone is not enough to make you a core Four, I would say. Just like having some Nineish elements does not necessarily mean you are a core Nine.

:m093:
 
Tulip said:
I wouldn't say "consciously wanting to express your individuality" is non-Four though, but that alone is not enough to make you a core Four, I would say. Just like having some Nineish elements does not necessarily mean you are a core Nine.

:m093:
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Right. Well, that's what I meant anyway. I realized this within myself, and I thought this was more fundamental to me than my core type motivation, but my core type motivation is just more deeply ingrained, so it feels like old news. In fact, I was recently wondering whether some types could be weakened because their fixations become... obsolete. For example, a type 5 who realizes that his emotions are no longer overwhelming. Or a type 9 who realizes his peace of mind isn't so valuable anymore. Maybe the enneagram would argue that it doesn't happen, but people do change a lot sometimes.
 
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